Testing Hay

[milesvb]

For those who send in hay samples for testing, what sort of sampling probe do you use?

I borrowed a nifty sampler from the county agent last week that could be chucked up in a cordless drill. It had a serrated insert for cutting the core that looked to be made of carbide. I can't find one like it on the net and suspect it might be a bit pricey.

 

[milesvb]

BINGO

http://www.enasco.com/farmandranch/Prod ... ku=C06541N

 

[dj]

I borrow one from the feed store. For $100 I bet I could rig up something though.

 

[milesvb]

I think I'll keep borrowing from the county agent. Only problem is that from what I've been hearing we may not have a county agent much longer.

It's hard to believe there haven't been more replies. Surely more folks must get their hay tested.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

Well for the few hay tests I've had performed I simply grabbed a handful from the center of each side of a few bales, just like the cows do when they attack a new bale. I figured with freshly baled hay that was going to give me as representative a sample as I would get by doing it any other, fancier way. I'm way too tight to pay for a probe or some other sort of device.

 

[milesvb]

Well for the few hay tests I've had performed I simply grabbed a handful from the center of each side of a few bales, just like the cows do when they attack a new bale. I figured with freshly baled hay that was going to give me as representative a sample as I would get by doing it any other, fancier way. I'm way too tight to pay for a probe or some other sort of device.

That was going to be my method but I was told it might bias the results.

 

[hayray]

For those who send in hay samples for testing, what sort of sampling probe do you use?

I borrowed a nifty sampler from the county agent last week that could be chucked up in a cordless drill. It had a serrated insert for cutting the core that looked to be made of carbide. I can't find one like it on the net and suspect it might be a bit pricey.

I bought one from a grain elevator that manufacturs them in Huron, S.D. for about 90 buck, I chuck it up in my cordless drill. The problem with grabbing a hand full of hay and doing it that way is that you are going to be bias towards stems and you will not get an accurate test, and also some labs charge more if they recieve it that way because they have to grind it up that way.

You can make one that you push in by hand out of a golf club that you cut the ends off of and supposedly they are hollow. My testing lab faxed me info. on how to make one and also a list of places were you can buy them. I use a lab called Litchfield Analytical, Litchfield, MI. You can call them. They do the test in about a day or two and then fax, mail and e-mail the results.

Ray

 

[dj]

a simple sampler would be a metal rod with a small hook.
push it in a foot or so and pull out. the hook will fill up with a sample from the inside.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Before I bale, i walk the field and grab a handful from several windrows. Mix them all up, and send it in.........

 

[Bez?]

I do not buy anything unless necessary.

Feed company I deal with sends out a rep to do the work.

Any supplements I need - I buy from that company.

Testing and travel is free.

Bez?

 

[dj]

I do not buy anything unless necessary.

Feed company I deal with sends out a rep to do the work.

Any supplements I need - I buy from that company.

Testing and travel is free.

Bez?

Ya Ya dats da deal I gots too.
They suggested I supplement with 20% cubes outta the sack.
2-3 lbs a day per head.

 

[Bez?]

I do not buy anything unless necessary.

Feed company I deal with sends out a rep to do the work.

Any supplements I need - I buy from that company.

Testing and travel is free.

Bez?

Ya Ya dats da deal I gots too.
They suggested I supplement with 20% cubes outta the sack.
2-3 lbs a day per head.

I think you need to find a new and perhaps more reputable outfit to deal with.

I buy my supplements - salt and custom mixed minerals only at a local mill. They do my grinding when I need it. They also provide me with most of my veterinarian needs - drugs, syringes, needles, calf meds and so on.

They have two independent consulting animal nutiritionists on call and one from a major feed company. I have never paid for their advice. The testing was always free as well.

Other than perhaps you - most here also know that I believe any cow that cannot survive on grass, hay and minerals except when the temperature drops below minus 30 - should go down the road. This includes bringing a calf to term.

Our remaining herd now can all do this.

Other than perhaps you - most here know that I have always believed feeding from a sack is a losers game.

Have a nice day,

Bez?

 

[dj]

I do not buy anything unless necessary.

Feed company I deal with sends out a rep to do the work.

Any supplements I need - I buy from that company.

Testing and travel is free.

Bez?

Ya Ya dats da deal I gots too.
They suggested I supplement with 20% cubes outta the sack.
2-3 lbs a day per head.

I think you need to find a new and perhaps more reputable outfit to deal with.

I buy my supplements - salt and custom mixed minerals only at a local mill. They do my grinding when I need it. They also provide me with most of my veterinarian needs - drugs, syringes, needles, calf meds and so on.

They have two independent consulting animal nutiritionists on call and one from a major feed company. I have never paid for their advice. The testing was always free as well.

Other than perhaps you - most here also know that I believe any cow that cannot survive on grass, hay and minerals except when the temperature drops below minus 30 - should go down the road. This includes bringing a calf to term.

Our remaining herd now can all do this.

Other than perhaps you - most here know that I have always believed feeding from a sack is a losers game.

Have a nice day,

Bez?

Oh Buz what a sting. How could I read the reams and pages you postulate and not know.
Sometimes your "I" disease keeps you from reading what is written. And your assumptions are just that and nothing more.
Any mention there was a cost for my test?
Did I say they demanded I adhere to their suggestion.
I've got a wide backside. Jump on up for another bite there's plenty.
Your so ready on the trigger to point out the lack of reputation.
Do you know the company? Had sour dealings with them in the past? Or do you just need repudiation?
If you want to be something besides sarcastic search out my hay test results and tell me what they are and where they should fit in my feeding program.

And Good Day to you sir.

 

[Bez?]

How does one respond to this? Sometimes writings are so easily taken the wrong way.

Oh Buz what a sting. How could I read the reams and pages you postulate and not know.

So your immediate response will be to use Buz instead if Bez? - and then use the four dollar words - setting the tone right away.

My first post did not even go to you.

You responded to it with sarcaasm.

My response to your second post with my expanded response. This to show that it is possible to get a service for free and therefore save money.

Sting? No initial attempt from me to do this - but re-reading my writings makes it clear there is a chance someone could think this.

So to be clear from the start - if an attack on you appeared to be there - it was not. So why the use of sarcaasm when I added my initial thoughts.

You have a low opinion of me? That is OK but ... almost every post made by me is done in order to assist others in saving money or making money or some other idea that has worked for me or someone that is directly known to me.

Yeah - it is possible to find some that are "not nice" - but no one ever said Bez? was perfect - certainly not you.

As for reams of writings - yup - lots - relating my experiences to others - there may be some value to it - if not then it can be ignored or laughed at.

Sometimes your "I" disease keeps you from reading what is written.

It is difficult to talk about oneself without using that letter but it can be done - but you must be telling me you are not happy with me expressing my opinions and my experiences - or passing on a potential way to save the cost of purchasing a probe?

And your assumptions are just that and nothing more.

Was not aware of assumptions - in fact ... what assumptions were being made? Confused.

Any mention there was a cost for my test?

The cost of the testing was - initially - not for you. Indeed the thought of even talking to you was the furthest thing from ,my mind - my comments were addressed to the general public - certainly not you specifically.

There are people out there who will spend the money to buy equipment and pay for things that can often be acquired for free. They simply do not know - that is why my posts came into this thread.

In fact there was really no thought of you directly or your personal program when those posts were writtien.

Did I say they demanded I adhere to their suggestion.

Confusion here - you actualy thought the first post was for you? Sorry - as previously stated you did not even enter into my mind when it was written. As for your comment about their suggestion - who is they and what was the suggestion?

Your sarcastic - "Ya Ya dats da deal I gots too." - led me to believe you were just throwing words around - if it is an actual feed plan ..... If it works for you fine - in truth the plan itself does not interest me. They are all different.

Too much feed from a sack will cause losses over time - hence my opinion of a losers game.

I've got a wide backside. Jump on up for another bite there's plenty

.

Huh? ??

Your so ready on the trigger to point out the lack of reputation.

Yours, mine or the store? What reputation? All that was stated was - in essence - "find another store".

Lack of reputation? Where did this come from and why? Not sure what you are chatting about here. If you took my comments about your supplier personally - which is all I have to go on - hmmm...... it would be impossible for me to know them - so it makes this part of the discussion a moot point.

Apology your way on spec to the supplier if it helps. Whoever they may be.

Do you know the company?

???? I think we are way out in left field here.

Had sour dealings with them in the past?

????? Who are "they"??

Or do you just need repudiation?

Repudiation?

If you want to be something besides sarcastic search out my hay test results and tell me what they are and where they should fit in my feeding program.

Not sure how this even entered into the discussion. Was there even a mention somewhere about your specific hay tests? Somehow this was - in my mind a discussion about hay probes that turned into costs of hay pobes that turned into - .... this.

And Good Day to you sir.

I need to be able to use the "I" word now - so I can continue.

It appears I am not even able to sign off without - in your mind - attacking you. I am not even sure who you are - male - female - age and so on.

Not sure why, but that is what you appear to think - everything I state is an attack upon you and your methods and I do not know you.

And for some reason you have aimed arrows at me a couple of times in the past - so to maintain peace of the boards I will do my best to avoid you in future. If you do the same we will both enjoy the remainder of our lives.

Common unwritten forum rules allow you one response to my writing.

I will be unable to respond to your potential response - unless we get down in the weeds. I am not prepared to go there. So it is a free shot at me.

If you want to take this to a real personal level after you have responded, we can go to pm, or I will provide you my phone number and you can tell me ear to ear. I will even acept your collect call.

Take care,

Bez?

 

[dj]

I had also posted that you a> maybe borrow one and b> a hook could get a sample from close to the center and be done with a cheaper cost for the tool.
My first qouting of you was "playing" with words. but reaffirmed your position that it could be done for free. Their evaluation of requirements verus hay test results showed the net energy requirements could be meet by feeding 2-3 lbs of their 20% cube product. which is available in the sack. Didn't feel the need for all the expounding. Because my intent of the quote was to reaffirm your post. We could have left it there. If you really wanted to divorce me as claimed in this and other threads. But seeing how forum material is free for use I will continue to reference your posts if I think the will help the question at hand.

Ahh but no. Your first line in response advised me to find a 'more reputable firm'.
And then took it to the personal level with the 'most other than you' comments. The sentences would have worked without the appendage.

Bez the validity of your third repsonse lies within the fact you feel the shear volume of words can cover up the mess you've created. broke cowboy if i was really "lurking" and wanting to attack you why not there also. It ain't personal.
And your insistance in this and other threads that "it could be continued by pm, or call, or in the weeds" well I'll decline.
Calling me out at recess, he-he, it's been awhile.

Since you don't like Good Day sir.
How bouts hugs and kisses to you, you big ol' teddy bear.

 

[AngusLimoX]

I do not buy anything unless necessary.

Feed company I deal with sends out a rep to do the work.

Any supplements I need - I buy from that company.

Testing and travel is free.

Bez?

Ya Ya dats da deal I gots too.
They suggested I supplement with 20% cubes outta the sack.
2-3 lbs a day per head.

dj
Sort of on the line of the original post, but what are you feeding ( type of cattle ), what is in the 20% cubes, and how much does it cost?

Was it the lab that recommended the supplements?

 

[dj]

AngusLimoX
commerical angus, the test is done by a certified lab but they don't make any feed recommendations. The local feed company will collect, submit, and give you the results. Or they will loan you the drill and you can collect it and return to them. They submit and get the results back to you. They have on staff nutritionist(sp) that evaluate your feeding situation, cows and hay test results and recommend any supplement feed you might need. In my case the net energy for lactating cows eating this hay was too low(less than .52). A "breeders" cube all natural 20% protein. I didn't look at the ingredients. Fed at 2lb.s per day. I think the cost is $11.75 a cwt. That would work out to $.25 a day per cow? But I don't have to buy feed to get the test for free. The same works for the fertilizer side of the business. Soil tests done, then they would like to sell you their products.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Thanks dj. How long do you have to supplement? At first blush it sounds cheap, but if you have to do it all year that is getting close to 90$/head just to supplement? Or just during lactating?

I haven't got the luck you and Bez do as far as feed company. I have to pay for any tests, so I deal direct with the lab. So far only needed soil samples so that is why I asked about the lab recommendations. ( They send you amounts per acre etc.. of what you need ).

 

[dj]

Thanks dj. How long do you have to supplement? At first blush it sounds cheap, but if you have to do it all year that is getting close to 90$/head just to supplement? Or just during lactating?

I haven't got the luck you and Bez do as far as feed company. I have to pay for any tests, so I deal direct with the lab. So far only needed soil samples so that is why I asked about the lab recommendations. ( They send you amounts per acre etc.. of what you need ).

The hay test tells you what your hay is.
As compared to Alfalfa? I think that is the baseline.
But the lab doesn't make recommendations.
And any deficences can be made up in a number of ways.
While I only tapped the feed store for one test. My perverted sense of justice. I had 4 tests done(3 paid by me). I will supplement with a hay that tests 13.5 % protein and a net energy of .538.
And for the really rough winter days I'll splurge and put out some corn. And I probably should cut that out. lumpy butt.
Now I'm really out on a limb but there are different requirements for energy? A maintenance rating. A gain rating and a lactating rating? It happens that my cows will be milking while eating this hay and the feed stores college guy figured for that. So it would be while milking not all year. The whiz poor fescue(on the stump) tested on 7-26-06 18% cp with a net maintenance of .469. But somebody else will have to tell you if those are good numbers or not.

The soil test also tells you what you've got.
And they do recommend how much NPK to apply to build to a certain point. But they don't tell you to use chicken leavings vs pelleted N.

AngusLimoX are you sampling your hay? Does the lab you use want it cut in 3/4 lengths? The drill tool does it pretty neat.
A pair of sissors works too. DON'T try a blender even on slow.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Actually dj one of my "to do's" for this fall is to visit the lab. It is about 1/2 hour away. I will pick up all of their protocols while there and maybe their sampling tools.

While I agree with Bez and most others that cutting cost is critical to success in cow/calf there is stuff that I don't think it is smart to scrimp on. That may be soil and feed samplers.

This year alone I spent over 4000 on fert and about 80 on sampling, so doing the sampling right makes sense.

We ( using "we" instead of "I", you guys made me paranoid :lol: ) have always had great hay, lots of clover/timothy/alfalfa mixes and the cattle always look and perform good so we never sampled. However we had a drought last year. Nasty teacher that is. Will always sample from now on if there is any question.

So many different types of hay, number of cuts etc... it would be a nightmare to sample all and probably not gain a thing.

Aside from friendly food the cows NEVER get grain here, but I do feed a half dozen or so steers a year for slaughter, and they get lots of corn and barley to make them taste great :lol: !

I (oops) We plan on having cattle for at least another 20 years so I think I will pop for a proper sampler.