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Tennessee Walking Horses Find Relief!

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Chuckie

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I just read in my local newspaper that the USDA is going to restrict the "soring" of Tennessee Walking Horses. I do realize that people love to see them pick their legs up to their nose in pain, but for the love of a horse, I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on anything. This is long overdue!!!! Just my :2cents: worth!
Chuckie
 

Chuckie

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Obama accomplished one good deed:
"Horse soring is truly one of the worst practices," U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen (R-TN) said in a statement. "I applaud the Obama Administration for finalizing this much-needed update to the existing Horse Protection Act regulations."
 

Margonme

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I think I agree. There is a concern. My brother raised Tennessee Walking horses for several years. His concern was that if they ban stacks or chains, then they can make the same argument for bits.
 

City Guy

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Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.
 

Margonme

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City Guy":xx35ul9v said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

There are 100s of types of bits. The concept of a bit is not unlike stacks or chains - they cause discomfort and thus alter behavior in a way that a horse will behave in a desirable manner.

The question is: What are the grounds for banning a practice? Should calf roping be banned? Should the use of a "twitch" be banned? Etc. Etc.
 

Bigfoot

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City Guy":3s2nlkc9 said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

Pain from a bit would be operator error.
 

Margonme

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Bigfoot":ksytd1ak said:
City Guy":ksytd1ak said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

Pain from a bit would be operator error.

There are wire bits and saw bits, etc. When breaking draft horses with a "hard mouth" dad used some bits that worked on the concept that the discomfort would alter the horse to perform as desired. You know horsemanship far better than I do, maybe the practices I grew up with are no longer employed, is that the case?
 

Bigfoot

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Margonme":6nqhadrq said:
Bigfoot":6nqhadrq said:
City Guy":6nqhadrq said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

Pain from a bit would be operator error.

There are wire bits and saw bits, etc. When breaking draft horses with a "hard mouth" dad used some bits that worked on the concept that the discomfort would alter the horse to perform as desired. You know horsemanship far better than I do, maybe the practices I grew up with are no longer employed, is that the case?

Yes, to an extent much of what we used to hold true about breaking a horse has changed over the years. To be perfectly honest, I have wrapped bits in wire, and welded longer shanks on to the bit (when I was younger). Most people pursue a pressure and release approach now. The last few colts I've started, I've taken a flat nylon halter, and wrapped it with a light chain. Hooked my reigns to that. Gets them flexing at the poll, and thinking about stopping pretty quick. Not harsh on the mouth at all, and they learn fairly quickly where the harshness comes from. Both ended up with a pretty good set of breaks on them, by the time they came out of the round pen.
 

Margonme

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Bigfoot":1ux9awq3 said:
Margonme":1ux9awq3 said:
Bigfoot":1ux9awq3 said:
Pain from a bit would be operator error.

There are wire bits and saw bits, etc. When breaking draft horses with a "hard mouth" dad used some bits that worked on the concept that the discomfort would alter the horse to perform as desired. You know horsemanship far better than I do, maybe the practices I grew up with are no longer employed, is that the case?

Yes, to an extent much of what we used to hold true about breaking a horse has changed over the years. To be perfectly honest, I have wrapped bits in wire, and welded longer shanks on to the bit (when I was younger). Most people pursue a pressure and release approach now. The last few colts I've started, I've taken a flat nylon halter, and wrapped it with a light chain. Hooked my reigns to that. Gets them flexing at the poll, and thinking about stopping pretty quick. Not harsh on the mouth at all, and they learn fairly quickly where the harshness comes from. Both ended up with a pretty good set of breaks on them, by the time they came out of the round pen.

Thanks. I thought that was the trend. Yes. I remember dad wrapping bits with wire. Some of those old time bits were cruel. The more aggressive bits were often a bad substitute for skill.
 

farmerjan

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Margonme":205xlvpr said:
City Guy":205xlvpr said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

There are 100s of types of bits. The concept of a bit is not unlike stacks or chains - they cause discomfort and thus alter behavior in a way that a horse will behave in a desirable manner.

The question is: What are the grounds for banning a practice? Should calf roping be banned? Should the use of a "twitch" be banned? Etc. Etc.

I too am glad that the intentional cause of pain for the Tenn Walkers to simply lift their legs higher has been banned. BUT I do agree that once some of these groups get their foot in the door, then they will get to where everything else will become subject to a whim. Like Margonne said, next a twitch, or a hot shot (which some do overuse but they are a tool if used properly) or next calf roping, or saddle bronc riding or even the bucking strap on a bull????? Not to mention rings in a bulls nose....I mean there was a group that wanted to ban castrating bull calves....just what we need, 9 million young bulls running around....and that is why some of the dairy farmers are using polled bulls, so that they don't have to deal with the dehorning outcry....
 

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Bigfoot":31jgtxnx said:
City Guy":31jgtxnx said:
Obama finally has his legacy. I'm happy for him. If certain bits cause pain they too should be banned.

Pain from a bit would be operator error.

Some of the bits used by true vaqueros are pretty harsh looking, but they are renown as some of the most skilled horsemen out there. It is all about using a tool properly.
 

Chuckie

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A few people will be cruel to animals. As we know this practice often leads to a criminal life, mostly those that are serial killers had a strong background to the torture of our four legged friends.

A horse's mouth can be kept soft as long as you keep his training in that zone. Until you start jerking their head and over correcting the horse, then I see people that really don't know what they are doing. A snaffle bit always worked well as long as you keep your hands low and the pull light.

I watch the westerns on TV and they are always in the horses mouth making them flip their heads up and trying to get away from the heavy handed riders. I wondered if they were trying to add action to the scene by doing this or was there so many that truly did not understand the horse. Too, those horses are ridden by so many, that it might be the reaction the horse has as the one before was too heavy handed. I did not enjoy riding a horse behind someone who jerked the reins and stayed in their mouth.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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Chuckie":2079bbn6 said:
I just read in my local newspaper that the USDA is going to restrict the "soring" of Tennessee Walking Horses. I do realize that people love to see them pick their legs up to their nose in pain, but for the love of a horse, I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on anything. This is long overdue!!!! Just my :2cents: worth!
Chuckie


My family has raised and trained Walking Horses for 70 plus years. Those horses get better care than most people. Yes their are a few bad apples that give the breed a bad name, but that is in every business. It is obvious you don't have a clue about the breed or their gait, please keep your opinions to yourself if you have no knowledge in the matter.
 

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midTN_Brangusman":v0mjlhd2 said:
Chuckie":v0mjlhd2 said:
I just read in my local newspaper that the USDA is going to restrict the "soring" of Tennessee Walking Horses. I do realize that people love to see them pick their legs up to their nose in pain, but for the love of a horse, I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on anything. This is long overdue!!!! Just my :2cents: worth!
Chuckie


My family has raised and trained Walking Horses for 70 plus years. Those horses get better care than most people. Yes their are a few bad apples that give the breed a bad name, but that is in every business. It is obvious you don't have a clue about the breed or their gait, please keep your opinions to yourself if you have no knowledge in the matter.

Your tone is all off. Bring us up to speed on what's going in the industry. I truely don't understand what's been banned, and what's still a go.
 

Margonme

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Bigfoot":99tx5ihx said:
midTN_Brangusman":99tx5ihx said:
Chuckie":99tx5ihx said:
I just read in my local newspaper that the USDA is going to restrict the "soring" of Tennessee Walking Horses. I do realize that people love to see them pick their legs up to their nose in pain, but for the love of a horse, I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on anything. This is long overdue!!!! Just my :2cents: worth!
Chuckie


My family has raised and trained Walking Horses for 70 plus years. Those horses get better care than most people. Yes their are a few bad apples that give the breed a bad name, but that is in every business. It is obvious you don't have a clue about the breed or their gait, please keep your opinions to yourself if you have no knowledge in the matter.

Your tone is all off. Bring us up to speed on what's going in the industry. I truely don't understand what's been banned, and what's still a go.

I agree on the tone. Chuckie, right or wrong, is expressing her opinion. Afterall, that is 90 % of what any of us do on a forum. My brother raised TN Walking horses. They put what are called chains around the front legs. It rides up and down the pastern bone. As it comes down, it hits the coronal area above the hoof. It gets sore and results in the horse lifting their leg. The stacks are weighted shoes that also cause the high lift to the front legs. How painful or sore it gets seems to be the debate. Nevertheless, the practice of "soring" has been banned.

PS. Referring to the addition to the regulations, seems they also use chemicals which I was unaware of. That seems to be a major issue. It would be good if MdTN could explain the new revisions to the regulations.
 

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Margonme":32kcugwq said:
Bigfoot":32kcugwq said:
midTN_Brangusman":32kcugwq said:
My family has raised and trained Walking Horses for 70 plus years. Those horses get better care than most people. Yes their are a few bad apples that give the breed a bad name, but that is in every business. It is obvious you don't have a clue about the breed or their gait, please keep your opinions to yourself if you have no knowledge in the matter.

Your tone is all off. Bring us up to speed on what's going in the industry. I truely don't understand what's been banned, and what's still a go.

I agree on the tone. Chuckie, right or wrong, is expressing her opinion. Afterall, that is 90 % of what any of us do on a forum. My brother raised TN Walking horses. They put what are called stacks or chains around the front legs. It rides up and down the metatarsal or in Horse terms, the cannon bone. As it comes down, it hits the coronal area above the hoof. It gets sore and results in the horse lifting their leg. How painful or sore it gets seems to be the debate. Nevertheless, the practice of "soring" has been banned.

The walking horse world isn't my specialty. That's why I'd like to know what was actually banned. Making the area the chain hits sore, but chains are still acceptable? Those big pads always looked to me like they would tear the p3 right down on the sole. I wonder what's been stopped, and who polices it?
 

Margonme

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Bigfoot":3rv8m2kx said:
Margonme":3rv8m2kx said:
Bigfoot":3rv8m2kx said:
Your tone is all off. Bring us up to speed on what's going in the industry. I truely don't understand what's been banned, and what's still a go.

I agree on the tone. Chuckie, right or wrong, is expressing her opinion. Afterall, that is 90 % of what any of us do on a forum. My brother raised TN Walking horses. They put what are called stacks or chains around the front legs. It rides up and down the metatarsal or in Horse terms, the cannon bone. As it comes down, it hits the coronal area above the hoof. It gets sore and results in the horse lifting their leg. How painful or sore it gets seems to be the debate. Nevertheless, the practice of "soring" has been banned.

The walking horse world isn't my specialty. That's why I'd like to know what was actually banned. Making the area the chain hits sore, but chains are still acceptable? Those big pads always looked to me like they would tear the p3 right down on the sole. I wonder what's been stopped, and who polices it?

Bigfoot. Correction. The chains are placed around the pastern bone not the cannon.

Apparently, the concern was also the use of chemicals under the stack:

The horses are induced to do this by attaching a weighted "stack" of pads under the front hooves using a strap, or the application of chemicals.

USDA in an update to the existing Horse Protection Act regulations.
 

Boot Jack Bulls

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As far as I have read on this, I think the practice of soring is what is being targeted at this time. From what I understand, this process can involve chemicals and chains applied to the pastern. The practice of stacking has yet to be banned, but it sounds like its next on the list. Again, this is just from what I've read, as my background is in stock horses.
 

callmefence

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I don't know a thing about walking horses. But I'm going to go ahead and say I don't consider a horse safe until it has been properly broken.
Many modern horse breaking methods imo. Do not accomplish this.
If you won't a horse to be safe in a extreme situation, you must first take it There. And it's often not pleasant or pretty.
People 150 years ago knew horses way better than we do.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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Bigfoot":1ifshqub said:
midTN_Brangusman":1ifshqub said:
Chuckie":1ifshqub said:
I just read in my local newspaper that the USDA is going to restrict the "soring" of Tennessee Walking Horses. I do realize that people love to see them pick their legs up to their nose in pain, but for the love of a horse, I cannot imagine inflicting that kind of pain on anything. This is long overdue!!!! Just my :2cents: worth!
Chuckie


My family has raised and trained Walking Horses for 70 plus years. Those horses get better care than most people. Yes their are a few bad apples that give the breed a bad name, but that is in every business. It is obvious you don't have a clue about the breed or their gait, please keep your opinions to yourself if you have no knowledge in the matter.

Your tone is all off. Bring us up to speed on what's going in the industry. I truely don't understand what's been banned, and what's still a go.


Bigfoot my tone is right on, when you have someone saying this is way overdue that doesn't have the slightest clue about the walking horse. Yes I take this very personal. I have many family members and close friends that train for a living. I have also trained and shown these horses since I was a big enough to walk.

The USDA is banning the action device (which is 6 oz chain) and the pads(which are not stacks of heavy weights) in effect as of January 2018. I can see how looking from the outside in it could look bad if one doesn't know the facts. The chains are very smooth and are placed on the horses pastern with a lubricant to prevent any rubbing or scaring. These are used to give the horse a since of stepping out of the chain which creates the big lick. The objective of the pad is to extend the horses natural hoof in a humane way to allow the horse more action. The pads are made of plastic and can have a light shoe on bottom or rubber, depending on what the horse works best with. The pads are not heavy or harmful to the horse. There is a band that helps hold the pad on the hoof, this is also not painful to the horse but is placed to prevent harm to the hoof.

So many people have painted a bad picture of the breed and do not realize that these horses take years of training to accomplish what is called the big lick. They are not simply pouring chemicals on their feet and throwing chains on them to step high.
 
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