Submersible Electric Water Trough Heater for Cattle and Horses

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Ken, I would say that Jo and Pam are with one of the smartest men that they could dream of, and I am sure they know this. But having talked to you over the years, I have learned a lot from you. So I have a feeling they both are much more advanced than 99% of the women around them. I don't think there is anything that you cannot do in a professional way.
 
Can one of the electrical experts explain to me why that would be the case? As long as everything has the proper ground, you use a heavy enough cord, and is protected from the elements, why would it matter?

My guess is someone has tried to plug the heater into a cheap Dollar Store Cord that is not heavy enough for the purpose and it melted or did not have a proper ground.
Be forewarned, I am an "electrical expert" only in my own mind.

A few reasons that instructions would say to not use an extension cord:

Some people would use a 14 AWG extension cord to connect power to a 3000 watt user. So adequately sized extension cord includes amp rating, but also length (for minimum voltage drop). Electrical loads are best installed hardwired with good conductivity (low resistance) on all wires. The connectors on the end of extension cords are a big issue since they are just a friction fit. Dirty, corroded, worn so they don't have good contact, ground connector broken off, insulation cracked from all the flexing over time. Ever unplugged a cord and the connector was warm? That is a sign of poor conductivity (higher resistance). Cord too short - just keep adding more cords until they reach? I think the note about no extension cords relates to legal liability, but still has some science basis.
 
Be forewarned, I am an "electrical expert" only in my own mind.

A few reasons that instructions would say to not use an extension cord:

Some people would use a 14 AWG extension cord to connect power to a 3000 watt user. So adequately sized extension cord includes amp rating, but also length (for minimum voltage drop). Electrical loads are best installed hardwired with good conductivity (low resistance) on all wires. The connectors on the end of extension cords are a big issue since they are just a friction fit. Dirty, corroded, worn so they don't have good contact, ground connector broken off, insulation cracked from all the flexing over time. Ever unplugged a cord and the connector was warm? That is a sign of poor conductivity (higher resistance). Cord too short - just keep adding more cords until they reach? I think the note about no extension cords relates to legal liability, but still has some science basis.
Simme I think ideally they are saying that there should be a waterproof power point installed by a sparky adjacent to the water trough to plug into, extension leads laying around around on the ground can be hazardous especially with all the long grass and mud around cattle yards as rarely are the connections waterproof, certainly the plug on the photo is not a waterproof plug. The sensible ones of us that use them in situations like this will secure them along rails and fences and make them pretty safe however not everyone does.. I would ensure that they are plugged into a point that goes to a modern switchboard with safety breakers and not an older one with wire fuses.
Years ago I had a client who lost their young child electrocuted by an extension cord/s running down the back to some dog kennels one morning with heavy dew on the grass. It has made me windy of running cords like that on a semi permanent basis. Again, our power is 240 volt so maybe a bit more bite to it. I think you would get significant voltage drop with 120 volt running through cords as well???

Ken
 
sstterry, I take it back. I read it and I thought you were calling me out as a dummy, which at times I let the same thought run through my mind, so I now see that you were not doing that, and I apologize.

Dang I wanted to pick up one of those cheap cords, I must admit, but I did buy the one that tax and all cost me $50 for a 25 foot extension cord for all the heaters. I thought, this ought to be safe. I brought it up to the house; plugged into a GFI recepticle in the garage, and sunk it in a bucket with a real heavy duty 100ft construction cord that looks like a small snake, and it still read the same voltage in the water.

I also plugged it directly into the recepticle with no extension cord, and it read the same when I stuck it in the soil. But then I drove a short piece of conduit in the ground, and it flattened it out. So, that worked.

So now I am thinking of exactly what Twisted is trying to tell me. That, the current is higher in the water, so I start trying to ground out from the water by going through the horse. I took two tall pieces of thick conduit and drove them in the ground 3 ft as they were about 6 ft tall, as I was afraid to get them too short around the trough; worried about the horses getting on top of them, and my horse Joe is going to find a way to move any and everything. I had some aluminum wire that the electric company uses, and tried that as it was all I had on the late Sunday afternoon. It lowered the voltage. But if I change the aluminum wire to copper, will it make a difference? Seemed when the first ground was put in, it made the voltage go higher. But the second one lowered it.

On this Voltage meter, it has a fan dial. It starts out with -20 then goes to 0. Doesn't there have to be to just stick that voltage meter in a puddle of water on the ground, does not move that needle to 0. But where the heater is, yes, it moves it to 0. So, what is the deal with -20 to 0? I left the tanks plugged up and when I go out there, if no water is gone, then I will just unplug them while I am feeding and they will have to drink until I get this figured out.
The voltage shows slightly higher in the water, but on that ground pole, it shows lower. I wonder if it is the wire I am using?


If this was a metal water trough, would it ground itself out because it is sitting on the ground and is conductive to the earth? Would it be equal then? Is it because it is rubber or plastic?

I know I am asking a bunch of 2nd grader questions. I am going to start back at the top and re-read what everyone has wrote, and see if I have skimmed over something important. What Twisted said made a lot of sense to me, but how to get that equal around the trough so that the shock stops is what I am trying to figure out. Maybe the copper wire is where I am messing up.
 
It is 9° outside and I saw the horse's make a trip through the pasture and I wonder if they are looking for a patch of water. I am going to finish this cup of coffee and go out there and take them and the cows some feed and unplug the waterers if I see no water is missing so they can drink. As much hay as they need to stay warm, they cannot eat if they don't have water.
 
Ken, when you are writing, your terminology vs what I know about electricity or maybe what we have, loses me. Just like when we talk about it here, it sounds sorta lame to you. When you say that a step down transformer, I do not have that. I think this is how ours is done, and of course this is coming from someone that you can see does not know how to correct their problem here. We have 220 current or 240 current, and it breaks down into 110 into the receptacles. But what is run to the barn is all 110 wire. I hate to say they are losing me on what we have here as well.....

But talking bout building a barn and such, I can square a building, put a roof on it and the sides and it look decent. Ha-ha!! You just won't have lights cause I can't do the electrical part.
 
Ken, when you are writing, your terminology vs what I know about electricity or maybe what we have, loses me. Just like when we talk about it here, it sounds sorta lame to you. When you say that a step down transformer, I do not have that. I think this is how ours is done, and of course this is coming from someone that you can see does not know how to correct their problem here. We have 220 current or 240 current, and it breaks down into 110 into the receptacles. But what is run to the barn is all 110 wire. I hate to say they are losing me on what we have here as well.....

But talking bout building a barn and such, I can square a building, put a roof on it and the sides and it look decent. Ha-ha!! You just won't have lights cause I can't do the electrical part.
Yes Suzanne, things are different here but what I am saying is just be sure that when playing with leads and connections out in damp muddy conditions just be sure you are protected back at the source by a modern switchboard with safety switches protecting the circuit. Old style switch boards with wire fuses melt to slowly to prevent electrocution. I know here old outbuildings will often have old antiquated switcboards in them.

Ken
 
When you say that the heater worked in one receptacle but you moved it to another in a different building it didn't work or the livestock wouldn't drink from it. That tells me that you do not have a static ground in that second receptacle. That heater will build up static electrical current and jolt whatever or whoever is standing on the ground. Do as you said and get a soilid copper wire, make a small coil on one end of it, and put it in the bottom of the tank. Stick the other end in the ground as far as you can and see if that doesn't dissipate the current in the tank.

Older houses, barns, sheds or whatever, didn't used to have a static ground installed when they were built, and some newer ones, especially on the farm and wired by someone's brother-in-law or farm hand, probably are missing the static ground as well. I know that you have seen receptacles that would only take 2 pronged plugs, Those receptacles do not have a static ground. The 3rd rounded blade on a plug, is the static ground. It is an earth ground and is connected to a solid copper wire connected to a soild copper rod driven 6 feet into the ground.

I didn't know that you were trying to tag me in a post. If you use the @ sign in front of someone's name, It will send them a notification that you tagged them: @Chuckie
 
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