Submersible Electric Water Trough Heater for Cattle and Horses

[Chuckie]

I have three troughs that I need to keep thawed out this week and have water heaters that I put in the base that seems to work just fine. Of course the instructions say, so not put on an extension cord. Well crap! All three must be on extension cords.

Seems Joe, the horse, when he goes to the trough, he cannot drink out of his because of the heater. I unplug it, and he can drink. Is there a current still running into the water if that plug from the water heater is not directly grounded at the tank? If so, is there a device that can be purchased, that can be hammered into the ground that the extension cord can be plugged into, and then the water heater be plugged into because you can ground out that new post that has a grounding rod in it?

It the fact is is not a solid ground at the plug in the problem?? I can picture a post with a plug in and out, with a copper rod to drive down to cure the grounding problem. Then maybe I am dreaming......

I don't know how to type the name of what I am looking for to make it show up anywhere like at Lowes or a hardware store. Or would this correct the problem? I was told that a horse can sense a charge in water where as a cow is not so sensitive. I see nothing wrong with the heater.

 

[Chuckie]

I wanted to add that I stuck a finger in the water at the edge and felt no current and made sure I was grounded. But something is not right.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

They make a tester that you plug into the socket or plug it checks the wiring. I'll get a picture.

 

[GoWyo]

Always use a GFI outlet on stock tank heaters. I use extension cords on the couple lots where I calve heifers and no problems with stray voltage. If GFI trips, there is a problem and you need to figure out the cause.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

GFI outlet and one of these to check.

 

[Chuckie]

Dang, Both of ya'll are just good to have around!! Seems I would have learned this earlier in life, but not at the last minute you know. OK, I need to look this up and maybe get to Lowes and see if I can find it on line to see if they have this in stock. I need to get it in gear. Thank ya'll so very much for this!!!!!!

 

[M.Magis]

You should be able to measure any voltage in the water with a multimeter. You may not feel it on your finger, but a tongue is way more sensitive. I wouldn't try that though.

 

[circlebllc]

Yes. Use a multimeter. Make sure you get good earth contact and one probe in the water. I checked mine before this cold snap.

I have a backup in my waterer. I have more of a problem with them pulling it out and I find it laying on the ground, lol.

 

[wbvs58]

That tester will only check your power source and extension lead I think, the multimeter from the trough to the ground would be the go however if your power source is wired correctly with a safety switch back at the switch board if there was a stray current it would trip the switch no matter how small. You can only have one earth stake usually back at the switchboard, the earth is linked to the neutral back at the switch board (Neutral Earth Link). Does the heater run directly off your power supply or does it have an isolating step down transformer to run the heater, if this is the case then any problem would be in the heater and this would isolate it from your power supply and not trip the safety switch.
If in doubt get a Sparky to check your setup.

Ken

 

[Twisted]

You should make sure everything is bonded. The difference in the available current of all objects is what shocks you. An electrical cord and the ground for instance. There is a huge difference in the voltage of the 2. You can rub your stocking feet on carpet and build up the electrical current in your body. Touch someone and get a jolt, that person does not have to be grounded to get shocked, they only have to have a lower voltage than you. Try this, hold hands with someone while you are rubbing your feet on the carpet. when you release hands, you will not shock each other because you both hold the same voltage, but you both can shock someone else,

When you use anything electrical as a heater in a stock tank, it is best to bond or ground the tank and anything else conductive around it, as in tin siding and or fence and fence post. as long as everything around is of the same voltage, you won't get shocked. Ever wonder how they can use electric lights in a swimming pool? it because everything conductive around that pool is bonded together with copper wire, even the rebar in the concrete.

 

[Chuckie]

Ken, I ran a heater with the same extension last year and it worked fine. I am not sure what the difference is. A new heater of the same is doing the same. I took a multimeter and it is showing current in the water of 5V when I put the ground into the soil and the tester into the water. I am not good with those things, and why I have not really learned how to work it, well, maybe it is like asking a man why he never learned to bake a cake. ha-ha!! But, both of these heaters are showing 5v in the water. I had hoped that I would have help, but it did not come. The heater, this heater as a matter of fact is plugged straight into an extension cord which is plugged into a 110 or 120 receptacle.
It is not going to show the heater.....let me find somewhere I can post it.
I took the floater off the top and it is down on the bottom. But, I took it out of the tank, and just stuck the voltage meter to the heater core itself, not in the water and it registers the same 5 Volts. Grrr!

 

[Chuckie]

 

[Chuckie]

But I feel that it is in the improper wiring of my barn as the wiring from the other building works great. Same heater as it is the same.

 

[Chuckie]

Twisted, I have been reading where it says, to take copper wiring, and run it in the water, and ground it with a deep post. I suggested that today but it did not happen, and then time ran out. I wanted to go back and do it after they left. But they left with my voltage meter so they could go see if their heater was doing the same thing. So, I have aluminum wire that is from the electric company, but not copper. Thick aluminum wire, I wanted to run that in the tank, and secure it a grounding pole and was told it would not work. Is that what you are speaking of? When you say the same voltage as the water without the heater in it? I may be responding slow to what you are saying when you say that it holds the same voltage (As the water?) Like the grounding rod? I do understand when you say about people holding the same voltage holding hands although.

The only one I have here to hold hands with and shock are Mike and Abbey the dogs and Spiderman the cat, and they would hate me. Ha-ha!! But I know exactly what you are talking about. It can burn the current is so strong!!! I can't remember where someone used to do that all the time, but it would start wars. Ha-ha!!

 

[Chuckie]

When men do things like this around the house, take your wife and children with you, and describe to them what you are doing so they will learn. I used to fuss at my husband because he would work on things and not describe what he was doing to his grandsons, so they could learn or know why he was doing it. It seems nutty that I am learning about this so late in life and to have stock heaters; I should have already known about things like this. I know it is my fault, but teach those around you what is going on. Even if your wife does not want to know, and she is on the farm, one day she may be in my shoes, and she will need to know.

 

[wbvs58]

I am surprised that something like that runs directly off the mains power however I have no knowledge of your power set ups over there however our mains power is all 240 volts so I guess it has a bit more punch to it and all power circuits have to be protected by earth leakage safety switches so any stray current would trip the switch.
I think earthing the water would be a good idea as it would equalize any current with the ground. A bit of copper or brass plate with the wire bolted to it sitting on the bottom of the tank and to an earth stake driven into the ground beside the tank would do the trick.
Suzanne, Pam and my daughter Jo live here now with me and it is a bit of a worry how they will manage when I depart the scene. Pam has helped me build the barn and stables so has a fair idea how things go together but she is not good on the more technical things, Jo just buries her head in the sand. I have got Pam onto a bit of plumbing like a sprinkler system that Jo wanted for the dressage arena so I started her off and let her do that and learn how to put the fittings together. It is the only way to learn, by doing it yourself. I might be seen as a bit of a cruel ba$tard leaving her to struggle on her own but she sorted it and now knows how things go together. Running the electrics, as you know I am off grid so knowing when and how to start the generator so I am writing a bit of a manual as well ass tidying up the system so it is user friendly. I might even consider putting in a new self contained modular system down the track that has factory monitoring and backup so they could easily get help.

Ken

 

[sstterry]

It{s} the fact is is not a solid ground at the plug in the problem??

Yes, that can be a definite problem.

 

[sstterry]

Of course the instructions say, so not put on an extension cord.

Can one of the electrical experts explain to me why that would be the case? As long as everything has the proper ground, you use a heavy enough cord, and is protected from the elements, why would it matter?

My guess is someone has tried to plug the heater into a cheap Dollar Store Cord that is not heavy enough for the purpose and it melted or did not have a proper ground.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Can one of the electrical experts explain to me why that would be the case? As long as everything has the proper ground, you use a heavy enough cord, and is protected from the elements, why would it matter?

My guess is someone has tried to plug the heater into a cheap Dollar Store Cord that is not heavy enough for the purpose and it melted or did not have a proper ground.

I'm running 2 tank heaters from a 100ft 10 gauge extension cord, it's working fine. I wouldn't do it with a smaller gauge cord.

 

[Chuckie]

sstterry. Stay away from the Casino's. Guessing is not your strongest trait.