Teaching a cow to milk for first time

[bigbull338]

that sure is a cute lil calf.the momma has a bagg full of milk thats for sure.looks like the calf is a bull.

 

[Onthebit]

YUP a bull I so wanted a heifer....but at liest we got food! Calling him: IMA Beefy1 hehe We name all our dinners!

 

[chippie]

He is a cute little guy. Glad that he made it here safely.
Good luck with your milking venture.

 

[eskimobirdlady]

katscars ,

"When the cow calves, we let the calf stay with the cow for several days. We have the cow come in twice daily to be fed. After her milk is good, the calf stays in a pen and the cow goes out in the pasture. She still comes in twice daily to get fed. When she comes in, we milk what we need (a bucket - 1 gallon), then put the calf in the stall with her to clean her out."

Do you then have to feed the calf any supplement? We are considering our first milk cow and still doing research on how feasable it is in interior Alaska. We are considering either breeding our Angus and milking her or buying a dexter that has been nursing her calf for the last year.
Peace Connie in Alaska

 

[Quarkkuchen]

Thanks for the good advise of some of you. Sounds like the beef growers are more concerned with being in control while the milkers are more gentle minded.
We just got a miniature cow and have been milking her. It is her first calf and first time being milked. Came across this board trying to figure out how to keep her from kicking. She does fine being milked by hand but doesn't like the milker. We tried the tail suggestion and it seems to work. We also started to use the broom method and she is getting used to being stroked with it. Because she is a miniature she can be handled easier. Thanks again for some of the advise, I am for the gentle methods, seem to yield better results in the long run.

 

[chippie]

Quarkkuchen:

Something that is very important is that you can not baby a cow into respecting you or behaving. The knowledge and skill learned in keeping cattle will tell you when a cow needs to be punished (knocked in the offending leg) or restrained (tail over the back, rope around girth or kicking hobbles/chain).

There are times when a cow needs to be punished, especially if she is deliberately trying to hurt you.

Insinuating that the beef orientated people are cruel and controlling is ridiculous. Bad behavior should not be tolerated whether it is a beef or milk cow. Stroking her leg with a broom is not teaching her not to kick the milking machine off.

PS. I prefer milking by hand because it takes longer to clean and sanitize the equipment than milking the cow by hand.

 

[milkmaid]

Something that is very important is that you can not baby a cow into respecting you or behaving. The knowledge and skill learned in keeping cattle will tell you when a cow needs to be punished (knocked in the offending leg) or restrained (tail over the back, rope around girth or kicking hobbles/chain). Bad behavior should not be tolerated whether it is a beef or milk cow.

Totally agree!

Q-- in your place I'd probably use a set of hobbles and/or an anti-kicking device that slips under the flank and over the back. That's if I don't feel like doing battle on that particular day or I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt; that she's not being malicious. There's a few things I won't put up with in any cow, and one is a cow that tries to kick me and/or the milker. Absolutely unacceptable.

I suspect that, to you, the "beef people" sound more controlling and mean than the "dairy people"... but what must be taken into consideration is that most beef people on this site actually own their cows. Most of the dairy folks here work for someone else, and it doesn't go over too well with a boss if cows are limping out of the barn. When you are your own boss though, it's a different matter.

 

[Quarkkuchen]

I am actually not trying to baby our cow but rather we are getting used to each other. I understand we are a different case than most since we only have one cow and not a herd. I am not making a living with cattle and have therefore more time to spend working with her. I can use gentle methods since I don't need immediate results, although I can see how one would loose patience with a cow.
The broom method seems to work even for the milker. I'd assume it is because not the milker bothers her but anything touching her hind legs does. The broom is just getting her used to something touching her legs and belly. We tried the anti kicking device under the flank and back but she still kicks.
I haven't seen how the hobbles work and I would be quite at a loss on how to get them on. I've worked with horses most of my life but not cows. I'd probably keep a horse to milk if I could instead of a cow.
I'll have to check into the hobbles.
Is there a way to build a shute with a board, that can be slid in, in front of the cows hind legs? If she was to kick, she'd hit the board instead of the milker or me. Not sure this make sense.

 

[milkmaid]

FWIW, the best method for desensitization -- which is what you're trying to accomplish with the broom -- is water. Tie her up and just hose her down. Concentrate on the legs since that's the issue, but feel free to give her a full-body bath too, complete with soap.

The biggest question here is one you have to decide yourself --whether or not the cow is being malicious, or just has an attitude problem. If it's just an attitude and she doesn't like the milker, "gentle" may work. If she's being malicious... well, over here I'd put her into the middle of next week, but that's JMO. I've been injured enough times I won't put up with a cow deliberately trying to hurt me.

Also, FYI, if she can still kick with the antikicking device that goes under the flank and over the back... then you haven't got it tight enough. Readjust it and try again... one on each side if necessary. If she's aggressively kicking the milker off over and over, then the 'kicker needs to be tight enough that if she lifts her leg she almost goes down.

The board-in-chute is a good idea in theory, but in reality, she'll probably get mad and get her feet up over the board... in the end she'll have skin scraped off her legs, might end up with some deep cuts, and you won't have her milked either.

Hobbles aren't too tough; the best design I've come up with is putting a rope with a steel ring around each leg (permanent) and then when it's time to milk, have a 6" or less piece of rope with a metal clip on each end (temporary)... takes less than 5 seconds to attach and keeps their feet where they're supposed to be. They'll freak out the first time, but after that you'd be surprised how well they mind their manners.

I've been in your shoes too, and I've oftentimes only had one mature cow of my own. One summer I had one cow, one calf, and milked the cow 2x/day by hand. Don't presume that the rest of us have huge herds. Also don't presume that because you have one cow and the rest of us have more than one, that your cow ought to be treated totally different. You have a lactating cow. Your number one priority is to make sure that cow is milked out twice a day, because if you don't she's going to end up with mastitis and perhaps a dead quarter. You may have time to work with her, but when it's time to milk you don't have time to fool around with her idiocincracies. That milker needs to be on and off the cow in less than 10 minutes, and ideally 4-5 minutes. Putting that milker on over and over again for 20 minutes while she kicks it off and dances around like a spoiled calf is going to result in mastitis (has to do with the vaccum of the milking equipment -- run a search for milking times). Feel free to work with her however you like during the day, but when it comes time to milk, well, if you have to wrap her up in rope until she looks like a mummy so that she can't kick -- do it.

Looks like I've written a book now. :lol: Hope I didn't come across too harsh.
Best of luck with her.

 

[chippie]

I understand we are a different case than most since we only have one cow and not a herd.

No you really aren't. We are not a dairy (although my husband grew up on a dairy). We are a family that has family milk cows.

Milkmaid gave very good advice. The cow should not be kicking at the machine. It really does not take one long to get used to it. My daughter's cow is 3 years old (May birthdate). Had her first calf @ 2 and was milked by hand. We gained access to a milking machine and she was no problem to teach to milk with the machine after being only hand milked. She never kicked it. She is dry now and expecting her second calf at the end of the month.

If this is your first cow and do not have previous experience around cattle, you should be aware that you should not make a pet out of your cow. Training methods that may work with a dog, will not work with a cow. Cows do not think like dogs. This may seem harsh, but if she is still kicking after you have been desensitizing her back legs with a broom for longer than several days, she is pushing your buttons and has your number. It may be time for tough love. Don't be afraid to smack her one and tell her to stand. We have one cow who will try you. When she starts putting her foot in the bucket, all you have to do is get the buggy whip, let her see it and lay it on the ground next to you. She knows what it means.

Your board idea is a wreck waiting to happen.

Also since your cow is reluctant to being milked by a machine, be sure that she is completely stripped out after you take the machine off. Some cows really don't like to be milked. Those need another job.

Good luck.

Good luck.

 

[Quarkkuchen]

Definitely not too harsh. Thanks for the advise. I'll try the water. The cow is positively not mean. She acts out of instinct and if something is bothering her by her legs, she kicks. That's why I am for the gentle way since I don't see a reason for showing her who is the boss. I don't believe in making her a pet, it would be a quite unpredictable pet. We just want her to feel at ease with us around and being milked. All the equipment is also a bit big for her being a miniature. I've worked with cows filling in for someone on a dairy but the cows knew the procedure. I also worked with cows every summer growing up in Germany. We took them out to pasture in the morning and back at night. I find one cow is probably a bit harder to handle than several, especially if there is no good lead cow.
Thanks again for your advise. It's been a welcomed challenge to get behind the psychology of a cow and your advise is greatly appreciated.

 

[Keren]

I dont have a lot of experience with dairy cows but here are my thoughts (I have to stop show cattle from kicking):

Put her in the bail like normal and give her the feed. You need to get her used to being touched all over, including the hind legs and the udder. But she kicks, so you stop touching her. She has learnt that if she kicks she can get rid of you.

Get a broom handle, show stick, or even an entire broom (though my arm gets sore because its heavy) or maybe a bit of poly pipe. Long enough that you can stand clear of the legs. Start by putting it on her spine and just rub it up and down along her back. She will probably kick but the key is DONT TAKE IT OFF HER BODY WHEN SHE KICKS. That way she will think that it is useless to kick because you continue to touch her. When she settles down you can start rubbing her in other places, but just do it slowly and calmly and only when she is ready. When she is comfortable with being touched with the stick all over, slowly start getting closer to her. She will probably get unhappy again as you move closer she will feel threatened again, but just continue what you have been doing and pretty soon you will be so close that you can touch her without her kicking.

Just thought I would also add that some cattle you cant cure; you can improve them but you always need to remember they are kickers.

 

[Nesikep]

I like the idea of tying the tail up, I'll have to remember that one for myself

for me, i have a couple cows, all beefers, and from the time they are born they're used to being touched... there are a couple I have that will stand on 3 legs while you rub their udder.. the problem with milking beef cows a lot of the time is they just won't let the milk down since you just aren't a calf.. I usually only milk them at weaning time, and usually just once.. hey, some free milk for my coffee, and then when calving time comes along and i need some extra colostrum, I have a fresh source available... Some I need to bind and lash to the squeeze to milk, others haltered to a fence, and some will just stand there (bless them!)

One note for hand milking that is really great.. get a 1 legged stool, with a belt on it, that way you can easily reposition yourself when the cow moves