Stockpiling bermudagrass vs hay

[CJohnson]

I am going to start a new thread on this topic. I have stockpiled coastal and tifton 85 bermudagrass for the past 6 years. I graze it short or cut it for hay in early August, then apply fertilizer around August the 15 which is about 2 months before first frost. (I am in east Texas) I turn in on it when I am out of other grazing. This is usually mid-November. I use electric fence to give them 1 day of grazizng and move it daily. You can give them more and move it less frequently but utilization goes down the more days you give them. Most years I have stockpiled grass until end of December to first of January, depending on when it rains and when it frosts. I have not had a year so far that I thought I did not get enough grazing for it to pay. I am not supplementing any protein now but some years supplement protein end of December if cold and wet. I decide this based on BCS. This year I have 130 acres stockpiled and it will last until 1st or 2nd week of January (I turned in on it Nov 19). I have spring calving so these are dry pregnant cows. I feed hay in January and have clover / ryegrass to turn cows on in February as they calve I think this saves me a lot of money.

Here are some studies on this topic:

http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/SCS%202006% ... agrass.pdf

http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/scs2000_23.pdf

http://www.caes.uga.edu/commodities/fie ... ermuda.pdf

 

[jedstivers]

When you run your fert in Aug why don't you mug ryegrass in to? Then you would have the best of both worlds.

 

[pdfangus]

I can not get the cows to eat the bermuda once it has been frosted unless that is the last resort..I don't like to make them that hungry..I endores the ryegrass idea...

 

[James T]

I have doubts that you would get a return on the fertilizer investment. The grass browns out going dormant. Would you get a better return by spending those fertilizer dollars on rye grass seed or oats? I did not get to read the linked articles but I'm wondering if there have been tests done comparing the crude protein/digestible protein values of stockpiled grass versus hay.

 

[BC]

The data from the Texas AgriLife research station in Overton shows the stockpiled bermuda has more nutritive value than one typically thinks of frosted grass. This program should work well from Memphis south.

The only thing I see about CJohnson's program that needs tweeking is his timing of his late summer fertilization. He may need to delay until Labor Day to coincide with being about 60 days prior to first freeze, but hey it is working for him.

 

[pdfangus]

I am certainly north of Memphis ......
and I do not doubt the nutitive value.....
but my cows will sort thru and consume everything living before they will eat the frosted bermuda.....I have seen them pull bermuda up...and spit it out to get to fescue under the bermuda. now ours is common bermuda and not some fancy hybrid stuff but it grows like crazy in summer and is a mainstay then....

 

[CJohnson]

When you run your fert in Aug why don't you mug ryegrass in to? Then you would have the best of both worlds.

Sounds like you could 'have your cake and eat it too' but will not work because the bermuda will shade out the ryegrass. The bermuda will get 24 inches tall and ryegrass will not be able to have sunlight to grow.

 

[jedstivers]

When you run your fert in Aug why don't you mug ryegrass in to? Then you would have the best of both worlds.

Sounds like you could 'have your cake and eat it too' but will not work because the bermuda will shade out the ryegrass. The bermuda will get 24 inches tall and ryegrass will not be able to have sunlight to grow.

It should grow after the frost starts knocking it back. We can do that here. It will also make really good hay in late April, early May.

 

[CJohnson]

I can not get the cows to eat the bermuda once it has been frosted unless that is the last resort..I don't like to make them that hungry..I endores the ryegrass idea...

You have to graze it short or get a cutting of hay then fertilize as it must be fresh growth and lots of protein. It will be just as good as hay that you have baled, just don't have the cost of baling it and putting it out for them. I think of it as making the cows do the work. It does not take them any time to learn the rotation. When we take up the fence for a new section, you don't want to be in their way! The ryegrass sure works but that is not available much for grazing until February. Small grain is great and certainly is better quality than standing hay but costs WAY too much for a dry pregnant cow. It would be okay for cow/calf pairs to limit graze, or for yearlings / weaned calves.

 

[CJohnson]

The data from the Texas AgriLife research station in Overton shows the stockpiled bermuda has more nutritive value than one typically thinks of frosted grass. This program should work well from Memphis south.

The only thing I see about CJohnson's program that needs tweeking is his timing of his late summer fertilization. He may need to delay until Labor Day to coincide with being about 60 days prior to first freeze, but hey it is working for him.

Truth is that it all depends on when it rains. Sometimes we don't get the fertilizer out until labor day. Often if the fertilizer is out earlier but we don't get rain until after labor day. There is a short window after rain and when it starts getting cool. The bermuda really slows down when you have 3 nights in a row of the low temperature under 60. The Tifton seems to grow longer and tolerate the cooler temps better than coastal.

 

[BC]

I am certainly north of Memphis ......
and I do not doubt the nutitive value.....
but my cows will sort thru and consume everything living before they will eat the frosted bermuda.....I have seen them pull bermuda up...and spit it out to get to fescue under the bermuda. now ours is common bermuda and not some fancy hybrid stuff but it grows like crazy in summer and is a mainstay then....

I can see that to be the case. We have little fescue here in East Texas. Most of our pastures are bermuda or bahia or a mix of the two. Fescue will grow in our bottoms, but needs a rest period and that is the same time we need the bottoms for summer grazing (our driest time of the year). By stockpiling bermuda/bahia to graze in November & December, you can get by with feeding hay in January and the first part of February until ryegrass starts growing in mid-February. Cuts the feed bill.

 

[Banjo]

Kit Pharo said because of the drought all of his bulls this year were raised on last year's dormant native shortgrass...I'm assuming buffalo grass but I don't think he said.
I realize that the buffalo is a probably a hardier animal than a cow, but they had to survive and thrive on something out there on the plains, even the cattle herds that came after. I don't think the Indians fed any rolled hay.
I guess my point is maybe we try too hard to get everything down to an exact science. I think the man is on the right track.

 

[novatech]

Tifton 85 is far superior to other Bermudas when it comes to stockpiled forage, in my experience. We have had several light frosts in my area. The tifton is still green while all the other Bermudas went brown with the first frost.

 

[greybeard]

What happens when you don't get enough rain to even make the short grazed Tifton/coastal come back--much less be able to fertilize?
I barely got enough moisture to get ryegrass up--then came the frost and everything is short AND brown.

Been my experience that rygegrass doesn't need a whole lot of sunlight either. It's a winter grass--does well with shortened solar cycle and less direct sun. I've planted (no till-just broadcast) it in the 40 acres of woods on my sister's place and it did great.

 

[TexasBred]

Kit Pharo said because of the drought all of his bulls this year were raised on last year's dormant native shortgrass...I'm assuming buffalo grass but I don't think he said.
I realize that the buffalo is a probably a hardier animal than a cow, but they had to survive and thrive on something out there on the plains, even the cattle herds that came after. I don't think the Indians fed any rolled hay.
I guess my point is maybe we try too hard to get everything down to an exact science. I think the man is on the right track.

The type of grass has much to do with it. In East Texas fertilized coastal does not even make great hay. Fertilizer seems to only give you more hay...not better hay....stockpiled coastal will fill them up and that's about it. In the areas that had buffalo there were native grasses that were extremely hardy and nutritious. A little different scenario so blanket statements seldom are good as the menu and quality of the menu can change in a very short distance.

 

[CJohnson]

What happens when you don't get enough rain to even make the short grazed Tifton/coastal come back--much less be able to fertilize?
I barely got enough moisture to get ryegrass up--then came the frost and everything is short AND brown.

Been my experience that rygegrass doesn't need a whole lot of sunlight either. It's a winter grass--does well with shortened solar cycle and less direct sun. I've planted (no till-just broadcast) it in the 40 acres of woods on my sister's place and it did great.

You gotta have enough hay to make it through the winter if it does not grow (or sell cows). I am blessed to have barns to store hay and try to have 1 year supply on reserve but the goal is to not need it. You are right that if it does not rain early enough before it turns cold, you will not have much grass. However, even in the worse years we have got enough growth that I thought we came out ahead doing it this way.

The biggest loss I have had is from army worms. With all that lush fertilized grass just sitting there in the fall, you have to check it for worms and spray if you get any. They will wipe it out quick if they sneek up on you.

It would be interesting to see if you could get a decent stand of ryegrass by putting it out with the fertilizer. I have not tried so can't say for sure that it would not work. I put my ryegrass out with clover in other pastures. If someone has done this or tries it please post your results.

 

[greybeard]

Yes you can overseed ryegrass and fertilize at the same time. Ryegrass especially likes nitrogen. I did it one year with a spinner type spreader and found that the fertilize covered a lot more area than the light ryegrass seed and I probably wasted a lot of fertilize because I ended up having to overlap my coverage area to get the seed coverage I wanted. Fertilize slung further than the seed did. Using a different kind of applicator would probably work a lot better than a spinner. Got a nice soaking rain the next day. That year, I could look out and see alternating swaths in both height and color because of the uneven application.
Haven't tried it since. Been too afraid of not getting rain and the fertilize go to waste as well as the seed.

For folks that have some woods (off subject I know) we always keep the 40 native wooded acres we have ungrazed beginning late summer, as a form of stockpiling. Native grass-bermuda and some kind of bunchgrass and the trees and wild vegetation shields the grass from the early frosts. Dew settles and frost forms on the higher vegetation of shubs and crap instead of down on the grass. Trees help hold in the daytime heat too. Last year, there was still green bermuda in there in early January. Not a lot, but it helps.

 

[1982vett]

Yes you can overseed ryegrass and fertilize at the same time. Ryegrass especially likes nitrogen. I did it one year with a spinner type spreader and found that the fertilize covered a lot more area than the light ryegrass seed and I probably wasted a lot of fertilize because I ended up having to overlap my coverage area to get the seed coverage I wanted. Fertilize slung further than the seed did. Using a different kind of applicator would probably work a lot better than a spinner. Got a nice soaking rain the next day. That year, I could look out and see alternating swaths in both height and color because of the uneven application.
Haven't tried it since. Been too afraid of not getting rain and the fertilize go to waste as well as the seed.

For folks that have some woods (off subject I know) we always keep the 40 native wooded acres we have ungrazed beginning late summer, as a form of stockpiling. Native grass-bermuda and some kind of bunchgrass and the trees and wild vegetation shields the grass from the early frosts. Dew settles and frost forms on the higher vegetation of shubs and crap instead of down on the grass. Trees help hold in the daytime heat too. Last year, there was still green bermuda in there in early January. Not a lot, but it helps.

Gotta calibrate your fertilizer output for about 20 ft swaths...

 

[greybeard]

Yes, but how to get the seed to sling 20'? Ain't gonna happen with the light ryegrass seed that's mixed in with the fertilize, even at high pto shaft rpm that I can see.

For instance: Let's say just for purpose of discussion, that the light seed will only sling out 10' but the heavier particles of fertilize will sling 20'.
You get 10' of seed coverage and 20' of fert coverage. Move over, get 10' more of seed coverage and 1/2 your slung fert in the 2nd swath goes on the previously covered swath. Overlapped.

 

[1982vett]

Correct...you have to cut back the fertilizer (roughly half in this case) so when you overlap twice you have the the full amount applied.