Stock piling grass vs hay

[Mark Reynolds]

Is Fescue the major grass that's used for stockpiling and is it done more in the midwest/southern states? We're in NY and not many people stockpile here that I know of. I'm thinking its a weather thing and the cool weather grasses we have like timothy and orchard grass. Nothing really grows after October. Any grasses we would let stand into the late fall would be ripened out and have very low nutritional value or starches.

You should be able to stockpile fescue for winter grazing fairly well in Western NY. I'm guessing the only limitation you may encounter there is that the snow gets too deep for the cattle to dig through it. Cattle will root through several inches of snow, but the amount you get there is probably a bit excessive. I'm guessing that is why it isn't stockpiled. Timothy isn't good for winter stockpiling and orchardgrass is only marginally so. KY31 tall fescue on the other hand makes excellent stockpiled forage throughout Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and I'm going to say Pennsylvania as well, although I'm not as familiar with the snow load there. The endophyte found within the tall fescue, that is so problematic, actually makes the fescue pretty much the best forage to stockpile for winter grazing in this area. What happens is that the freezing converts the starches in the fescue to sugars in the winter and the endophyte enables the plant to persist. Tall fescue can, and does, actually grow under a blanket of snow. Fescue (KY31) makes for a better grazing forage during the winter than during the summer months when the endophyte tends to have more of a negative effect on livestock and the plants themselves tend to become rather coarse and palatability drops. Ask @Jeanne - Simme Valley about forages and fescue in NY. My stomping grounds are primarily Ohio right now, but that is going to change.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There was a group pushing for stockpile grazing in NY. NOPE. Ain't going to happen in NY. Granted, there could be an oddball winter like we had last year, where the ground was pretty open ALL winter - but - if you had cattle out on pastures, they would be ruined - punched up into mud wallows.
Not only is our snow generally too deep, it gets crusted over with the winds. You know, the kind that you can walk on - until you crash through!!
On a serious note, I am not a very knowledgeable person when it comes to the types of grasses. My husband was. That was his job. I just roll with what we have and try to keep it healthy. I would NOT recommend anyone to save any much needed grazing for winter. Bale it so you have it to feed to your cows during the winter.
I keep our cattle on sacrifice acreage each and every year. We built feed pads, so that we can feed over the fenceline into a bale feeder.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

There was a group pushing for stockpile grazing in NY. NOPE. Ain't going to happen in NY. Granted, there could be an oddball winter like we had last year, where the ground was pretty open ALL winter - but - if you had cattle out on pastures, they would be ruined - punched up into mud wallows.
Not only is our snow generally too deep, it gets crusted over with the winds. You know, the kind that you can walk on - until you crash through!!
On a serious note, I am not a very knowledgeable person when it comes to the types of grasses. My husband was. That was his job. I just roll with what we have and try to keep it healthy. I would NOT recommend anyone to save any much needed grazing for winter. Bale it so you have it to feed to your cows during the winter.
I keep our cattle on sacrifice acreage each and every year. We built feed pads, so that we can feed over the fenceline into a bale feeder.

Yep, mud can be/is definitely an issue to contend with. IF the ground is frozen.......When it thaws is another story.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

You should be able to stockpile fescue for winter grazing fairly well in Western NY. I'm guessing the only limitation you may encounter there is that the snow gets too deep for the cattle to dig through it. Cattle will root through several inches of snow, but the amount you get there is probably a bit excessive. I'm guessing that is why it isn't stockpiled. Timothy isn't good for winter stockpiling and orchardgrass is only marginally so. KY31 tall fescue on the other hand makes excellent stockpiled forage throughout Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and I'm going to say Pennsylvania as well, although I'm not as familiar with the snow load there. The endophyte found within the tall fescue, that is so problematic, actually makes the fescue pretty much the best forage to stockpile for winter grazing in this area. What happens is that the freezing converts the starches in the fescue to sugars in the winter and the endophyte enables the plant to persist. Tall fescue can, and does, actually grow under a blanket of snow. Fescue (KY31) makes for a better grazing forage during the winter than during the summer months when the endophyte tends to have more of a negative effect on livestock and the plants themselves tend to become rather coarse and palatability drops. Ask @Jeanne - Simme Valley about forages and fescue in NY. My stomping grounds are primarily Ohio right now, but that is going to change.

K31 tall fescue is pretty much turned into grazable "ice cream" plants in colder climates, quite literally. BUT, you have to be able to get to them without a barrier or sink to your eyeballs in the process.

 

[BFE]

According to some the 38th parallel is the sweet spot for year around grazing, which is I64 for all intents and purposes. I live about 8 miles due north of 64 so I guess I'm in there.

 

[kenny thomas]

we feed hay in the fall to allow the grass to grow as much as possible. only start grazing after the first killing frost. (usually sometime in october or november.) we keep back hay for really bad weather (ice). strip grazing with no back wire in winter.

Lots of weather related issues associated with stockpiling. I have posted it before but i will sometimes test my stockpiled fescue about December 5th. Have tested it as high as over 19% protein if Urea is added and over 17% without anything. We have pretty open winters with only a few snows. I will start strip grazing the fescue on December 20th. Most years can graze until March 1st. Just cant seem to get the last month until turnout time.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Lots of weather related issues associated with stockpiling. I have posted it before but i will sometimes test my stockpiled fescue about December 5th. Have tested it as high as over 19% protein if Urea is added and over 17% without anything. We have pretty open winters with only a few snows. I will start strip grazing the fescue on December 20th. Most years can graze until March 1st. Just cant seem to get the last month until turnout time.

I'm trying to remember......I do know that protein levels in grazed forages, stockpiles included, are well above any level of concern for anywhere east of the Mississippi. I think under a few scenarios levels will approach, but remain above what is required/needed to keep animals healthy. Basically, if you live east of the Mississippi, you don't ever (ok, maybe very rarely) need a protein tub. That being said, it is good practice to be aware of protein levels and there may be cases where you want to supplement, but you need to be wary of anyone telling you need to supplement. If you have your operation west of the Mississippi, you need to be a bit more observant and measure what you have a bit closer. Animal nutrition was a long time ago for me and I need to brush up on it some. I have heard values for stockpiled fescue before and I recall that the protein amounts drop at a steady rate from November 1 to March but do not fall below required minimum levels and only approach these values in March/April when spring greenup takes place.

 

[kenny thomas]

I'm trying to remember......I do know that protein levels in grazed forages, stockpiles included, are well above any level of concern for anywhere east of the Mississippi. I think under a few scenarios levels will approach, but remain above what is required/needed to keep animals healthy. Basically, if you live east of the Mississippi, you don't ever (ok, maybe very rarely) need a protein tub. That being said, it is good practice to be aware of protein levels and there may be cases where you want to supplement, but you need to be wary of anyone telling you need to supplement. If you have your operation west of the Mississippi, you need to be a bit more observant and measure what you have a bit closer. Animal nutrition was a long time ago for me and I need to brush up on it some. I have heard values for stockpiled fescue before and I recall that the protein amounts drop at a steady rate from November 1 to March but do not fall below required minimum levels and only approach these values in March/April when spring greenup takes place.

In my area they actually dont drop until mid to late December. I haven't done it before but this winter i think i will check it every month just to see the loss.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

In my area they actually dont drop until mid to late December. I haven't done it before but this winter i think i will check it every month just to see the loss.

That makes perfect sense as you sit further south than I do so you stay warmer longer and have a later start of freeze date. Once you start to see a drop, on average, it will drop roughly the same percentage each month, on average. Don't quote me, but I seem to remember about 2% per month. That's for Ohio. I suspect your drop rate will be consistent as well, but your drop percentage per month may not be as much as here.

 

[kenny thomas]

That makes perfect sense as you sit further south than I do so you stay warmer longer and have a later start of freeze date. Once you start to see a drop, on average, it will drop roughly the same percentage each month, on average. Don't quote me, but I seem to remember about 2% per month. That's for Ohio. I suspect your drop rate will be consistent as well, but your drop percentage per month may not be as much as here.

I was thinking 2% per month also. But 19% in December is still 13% in March and im ok with that

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I was thinking 2% per month also. But 19% in December is still 13% in March and im ok with that

Just a thought, but if you do track the protein level decrease from December through March, you might also want to keep track of the number of times it freezes and for how long each freeze lasts. I'm suspecting there may be a correlation between those figures and the amount of protein level decrease.

 

[Brute 23]

Cutting hay just to feed it a couple months later is a very expensive way to feed cows.

 

[kenny thomas]

Just a thought, but if you do track the protein level decrease from December through March, you might also want to keep track of the number of times it freezes and for how long each freeze lasts. I'm suspecting there may be a correlation between those figures and the amount of protein level decrease.

Good idea. I can control the soil tests, adding what's needed, controlling the grazing, but can't change the weather.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Cutting hay just to feed it a couple months later is a very expensive way to feed cows.

Sometimes that is your only option.

 

[Brute 23]

Sometimes that is your only option.

Is it really? I'm interested in hearing that thought process out loud. I know there are some different things with fescue but it still seems odd.

 

[Dave]

Is it really? I'm interested in hearing that thought process out loud. I know there are some different things with fescue but it still seems odd.

Yes it is. It is a big old world with much different environments spread over the country. The thousands of acres where the cows are now will be under 4 feet of snow during the winter. The limited acres down low are grazed out quickly and even there the potential for multiple feet of snow exists. South of here in the high dessert they get much less snow and there are ranches with "winter range". But even there they have some stock piled hay and some pretty extreme machines with the potential to travel in deep snow to get hay out to the cattle. I have seen ranchers use a cat with a 6 way blade to push a road through the snow to the cows to use to trail the cows to the hay stack. I know of thousands of cows who get hauled hundreds of miles every winter to get to lower, drier climates to spend the winter.

 

[Brute 23]

Yes it is. It is a big old world with much different environments spread over the country. The thousands of acres where the cows are now will be under 4 feet of snow during the winter. The limited acres down low are grazed out quickly and even there the potential for multiple feet of snow exists. South of here in the high dessert they get much less snow and there are ranches with "winter range". But even there they have some stock piled hay and some pretty extreme machines with the potential to travel in deep snow to get hay out to the cattle. I have seen ranchers use a cat with a 6 way blade to push a road through the snow to the cows to use to trail the cows to the hay stack. I know of thousands of cows who get hauled hundreds of miles every winter to get to lower, drier climates to spend the winter.

This is what I am referring to.