Bermuda vs. Bahia seed

[midTN_Brangusman]

Wanted to get some opinions. This spring I am sewing approximately 120 acres that the drought of 2021 killed most of my summer grass. I have been debating between Wrangler Bermuda or Tifton 9 Bahia or possibly a blend of the two (hand mixing). Sprigging hybrid bermuda is not an option due to the cost. Conducted soil test last fall, PH is 5.7. I did apply 1 ton of lime per acre, other nutrient levels are good. Summer grasses where it didn't die out are common bermuda and Pensacola bahia. Soils are sandy loam, located in SE Oklahoma. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ebenezer]

Tift 9 will need better grazing management. Some will depend on your plans to fertilize. Bermudagrass needs more than bahaigrass to grow to the potential.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Tift 9 will need better grazing management. Some will depend on your plans to fertilize. Bermudagrass needs more than bahaigrass to grow to the potential.

We do weekly rotations. So it would be 1 week on, 4 weeks off. As for fertilize, trying to stay away from the fertilize store as much as possible.

 

[Brute 23]

We do weekly rotations. So it would be 1 week on, 4 weeks off. As for fertilize, trying to stay away from the fertilize store as much as possible.

I don't know that planting will help you then. To maximize and maintain the hybrid grasses you will likely have to fert.

I would be more tempted to spend the seed money or fertilizer for what ever comes back naturally. If I wanted to seed it just to speed up the process I'd probably just go with common bermuda. I am not a fan of bahia. Common bermuda is very tough and productive, especially when managed right.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

I don't know that planting will help you then. To maximize and maintain the hybrid grasses you will likely have to fert.

I would be more tempted to spend the seed money or fertilizer for what ever comes back naturally. If I wanted to seed it just to speed up the process I'd probably just go with common bermuda. I am not a fan of bahia. Common bermuda is very tough and productive, especially when managed right.

I just checked seed prices, i can get common for less than half the price of wrangler.

 

[Little Joe]

I was told that if hybrid bermuda was not managed (as in fertilized as needed) that it would just turn back to being a common bermuda, no idea if that's true. I've always planted common bermuda and been happy with it.

 

[BC]

I just checked seed prices, i can get common for less than half the price of wrangler.

Be careful with just asking for common bermuda. There are forage types and turf types.

 

[Ebenezer]

Then could think about the controversial idea of a terminal bull. A bull used to produce feedlot cattle only - no replacements kept, no second generation progeny.

Be careful with just asking for common bermuda. There are forage types and turf types.

Common means unknown type. Beware of it alone and in blends with names that sound like a selection. Some of the turf types have little protein even when well fertilized and can be short.

 

[Brute 23]

If you are going to a seed place and telling them its for grazing you are fine. We use Pogue and Turner. The other indicator is the turf bermudas are usually expensive as all get out. You would go broke planting 120ac. The common bermuda alone will carry a pretty hefty bill if you do it per their recommended rates.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

If you are going to a seed place and telling them its for grazing you are fine. We use Pogue and Turner. The other indicator is the turf bermudas are usually expensive as all get out. You would go broke planting 120ac. The common bermuda alone will carry a pretty hefty bill if you do it per their recommended rates.

This is where I normally buy my seed.

Hancock's Common Bermuda Grass Seed - Coated & Unhulled

Common Bermuda Grass Seed (Un-Hulled) - Un-Hulled Common Bermuda Grass makes an excellent low maintenance, drought resistant lawn or pasture grass. Common Bermuda grass is a crawling grass with runners providing great traffic tolerance, wear resistance and fine leaf texture with medium green...

hancockseed.com

 

[Texas G@l]

Wanted to get some opinions. This spring I am sewing approximately 120 acres that the drought of 2021 killed most of my summer grass. I have been debating between Wrangler Bermuda or Tifton 9 Bahia or possibly a blend of the two (hand mixing). Sprigging hybrid bermuda is not an option due to the cost. Conducted soil test last fall, PH is 5.7. I did apply 1 ton of lime per acre, other nutrient levels are good. Summer grasses where it didn't die out are common bermuda and Pensacola bahia. Soils are sandy loam, located in SE Oklahoma. Thanks in advance.

When we started clearing woods to plant pasture years go, we planted Wrangler bermuda and have been pleased with it but if I knew then what I know now, we would have planted native grass. The native seed costs more upfront and you have to make sure you do not overgraze it; however, it is less expensive in the long run.... no fertilizer , less issues with pests like army worms and grasshoppers, etc. If you take care of it by utilizing rotational grazing, native grass will take great care of you. Normally, we don't feed hay; we graze dormant standing native grass. Due to the drought we had to rotate the cows back through the native in the fall instead of stockpiling it and started feeding hay on Christmas Eve.

I highly recommend doing research on native grasses like little and big bluestem, switchgrass, indian grass, etc. You can't go wrong with grasses the good Lord designed for your part of the country.

 

[Texas G@l]

midTN_Brangusman,

Have you looked at the Noble Foundation's website, noble.org? They've got great info for tailored to our areas.

 

[504RP]

I know of a Bermuda grass producer who has been in business for 40 years plus. Sell's to mostly horse people. Just guessing he grows 1 maybe 200 acres. His fields are planted in Guymon Bermuda grass.

I know of another Bermuda grass producer located within 30 miles of this one. That has Three different varieties that are hybrids, one is 0zark and I can't remember the other two types. This guy grows about 1 or 200 acres."

Both of these guys produce about as good of Bermuda grass that you will find. The older guy said the reason he chose Guymon Bermuda was because a farmer he knew told him he wanted to show him something. He set out 4 or 5 different small squares all different varieties one being Guymon to his cattle. The majority of the Cattle ended up eating the bale of Guymon before they went to the other varieties of square bales that was left. Said the showing him that said they would go to the bale of Guymon over the other types of hay every time.

Guymon is a cold tolerant variety of Bermuda grass. But they don't sell it anymore. They have replaced it with Wrangler which the cheapest 50 lb bags of seed that I have found so far cost $ 356 a bag before tax. Recommend seed rate per acre is like 11 pounds per acre.

The producer of the Guymon Bermuda grass told me he lost a 40 acre field of Guymon last winter when the temperature dropped to negative 6 below zero. I don't know why he only lost the 40 acres when 160 acres survived if it was the temperature that killed it. And he isn't for sure what happens yet.

I think maybe the reason they don't sell Guymon Bermuda grass seed any more might be because of climate change. The Wrangler is supposed to be cold tolerant.

I plan on trying to seed 60 acres of Wrangler this Spring. One field I am going to plant had a lot of native Bermuda to begin with. Over the last 15 years I would put cows on it to make it easier to feed them during the winter. Never gave much thought about messing up the field in the long run. But some of the cows I would put on that field had been on my Tall fescue mixed grass pastures.

So when I brought them in for the winter and put them on my semi Bermuda grass 20 acre field. The cows seeded that field with Tall Fescue messing up my Bermuda grass.

So if you are going to spend as much as you are going to have to in order to get a pure Bermuda grass field. You don't want to do like I did and graze cattle on it. EVER ! Don't even turn 1 head lose on it until you have dry lotted it for a few weeks unless you want to reseed your Bermuda grass with what ever it has been eating.

You mentioned Bahia grass. I can't really say much about it from what little experience I have had with it. Which was trying to kill what little of it that I had got started in my pasture probably from a cow that I bought at the sale barn. But since I have killed out that little bit and learned how much next to impossible it is to kill out. I don't want it no matter how nutritious it is for cattle. From what nutritional value it has you lose in the ton's per acre it makes and is about like cutting fiberglass straw versus cutting grass.

For anyone that likes it more power to you. I guess if my entire place comes up seeded with it. I would have to learn to like it because I don't think it would be very easy to get rid of on a large scale.

 

[Hogfarmer10]

This is where I normally buy my seed.

Hancock's Common Bermuda Grass Seed - Coated & Unhulled

Common Bermuda Grass Seed (Un-Hulled) - Un-Hulled Common Bermuda Grass makes an excellent low maintenance, drought resistant lawn or pasture grass. Common Bermuda grass is a crawling grass with runners providing great traffic tolerance, wear resistance and fine leaf texture with medium green...

hancockseed.com

I've had very good experiences with southeast agriseeds.

 

[Little Joe]

I know of a Bermuda grass producer who has been in business for 40 years plus. Sell's to mostly horse people. Just guessing he grows 1 maybe 200 acres. His fields are planted in Guymon Bermuda grass.

I know of another Bermuda grass producer located within 30 miles of this one. That has Three different varieties that are hybrids, one is 0zark and I can't remember the other two types. This guy grows about 1 or 200 acres."

Both of these guys produce about as good of Bermuda grass that you will find. The older guy said the reason he chose Guymon Bermuda was because a farmer he knew told him he wanted to show him something. He set out 4 or 5 different small squares all different varieties one being Guymon to his cattle. The majority of the Cattle ended up eating the bale of Guymon before they went to the other varieties of square bales that was left. Said the showing him that said they would go to the bale of Guymon over the other types of hay every time.

Guymon is a cold tolerant variety of Bermuda grass. But they don't sell it anymore. They have replaced it with Wrangler which the cheapest 50 lb bags of seed that I have found so far cost $ 356 a bag before tax. Recommend seed rate per acre is like 11 pounds per acre.

The producer of the Guymon Bermuda grass told me he lost a 40 acre field of Guymon last winter when the temperature dropped to negative 6 below zero. I don't know why he only lost the 40 acres when 160 acres survived if it was the temperature that killed it. And he isn't for sure what happens yet.

I think maybe the reason they don't sell Guymon Bermuda grass seed any more might be because of climate change. The Wrangler is supposed to be cold tolerant.

I plan on trying to seed 60 acres of Wrangler this Spring. One field I am going to plant had a lot of native Bermuda to begin with. Over the last 15 years I would put cows on it to make it easier to feed them during the winter. Never gave much thought about messing up the field in the long run. But some of the cows I would put on that field had been on my Tall fescue mixed grass pastures.

So when I brought them in for the winter and put them on my semi Bermuda grass 20 acre field. The cows seeded that field with Tall Fescue messing up my Bermuda grass.

So if you are going to spend as much as you are going to have to in order to get a pure Bermuda grass field. You don't want to do like I did and graze cattle on it. EVER ! Don't even turn 1 head lose on it until you have dry lotted it for a few weeks unless you want to reseed your Bermuda grass with what ever it has been eating.

You mentioned Bahia grass. I can't really say much about it from what little experience I have had with it. Which was trying to kill what little of it that I had got started in my pasture probably from a cow that I bought at the sale barn. But since I have killed out that little bit and learned how much next to impossible it is to kill out. I don't want it no matter how nutritious it is for cattle. From what nutritional value it has you lose in the ton's per acre it makes and is about like cutting fiberglass straw versus cutting grass.

For anyone that likes it more power to you. I guess if my entire place comes up seeded with it. I would have to learn to like it because I don't think it would be very easy to get rid of on a large scale.

I gave up on trying to have a pure stand of anything years ago and glad I did, much better grazing to have a variety. I have bermuda, fescue, bahia, dallisgrass,crabgrass,white clover, red clover, vetch, red top, johnson grass and some other varieties I'm not sure of. Which one is prevalent depends on time of year and weather, even with the warm season stuff it will vary year to year, but one thing about it is if it is growing season I have grass.

 

[Mrcopier]

Bermuda. I have planted both and I am not a fan of Bahia. Coastal is my fav

 

[504RP]

I gave up on trying to have a pure stand of anything years ago and glad I did, much better grazing to have a variety. I have bermuda, fescue, bahia, dallisgrass,crabgrass,white clover, red clover, vetch, red top, johnson grass and some other varieties I'm not sure of. Which one is prevalent depends on time of year and weather, even with the warm season stuff it will vary year to year, but one thing about it is if it is growing season I have grass.

That's pretty much what I have too. I think that if you run cattle on about any pasture in central Arkansas and I would guess in other states that border Arkansas that's what you will have growing. Which is fine for cattle.

I will be 63 soon and am not getting back into cattle except for trying to finish a couple for my own use. But I have been talking about doing that for going on two years now lol. But I am getting closer to giving that a try. Should have my finishing pen and two head in it by sometime next week. I enjoyed my small cow/calf heard and even at having to start all over due to selling out is something I would do if I was in better health.

Because my wife and daughter barrel race and have several horses. They would save money if I can get some Bermuda grass established. And I think I can sell a lot of it. Thought about doing this 15 years ago and have bought some equipment along the way since then thinking someday I might sell horse hay. Even planted some world feeder Sprigs on 3 acres sort of as a trial run to see how hard it would be to do. And I had real good luck on it.

Never grazed it and only square baled it. Sold the property 3 years ago and the guy I sold it too had barged on it every summer that he has had it bailed. What's so surprising about it to me is . I only sprayed it a few times and it really didn't have any weeds in it then. The stuff stays so thick I don't think weeds could compete with it.

And world feeder Bermuda isn't a real big ton per acre producer. But is very pretty and what it does produce is good above average Bermuda grass.

 

[Little Joe]

That's pretty much what I have too. I think that if you run cattle on about any pasture in central Arkansas and I would guess in other states that border Arkansas that's what you will have growing. Which is fine for cattle.

I will be 63 soon and am not getting back into cattle except for trying to finish a couple for my own use. But I have been talking about doing that for going on two years now lol. But I am getting closer to giving that a try. Should have my finishing pen and two head in it by sometime next week. I enjoyed my small cow/calf heard and even at having to start all over due to selling out is something I would do if I was in better health.

Because my wife and daughter barrel race and have several horses. They would save money if I can get some Bermuda grass established. And I think I can sell a lot of it. Thought about doing this 15 years ago and have bought some equipment along the way since then thinking someday I might sell horse hay. Even planted some world feeder Sprigs on 3 acres sort of as a trial run to see how hard it would be to do. And I had real good luck on it.

Never grazed it and only square baled it. Sold the property 3 years ago and the guy I sold it too had barged on it every summer that he has had it bailed. What's so surprising about it to me is . I only sprayed it a few times and it really didn't have any weeds in it then. The stuff stays so thick I don't think weeds could compete with it.

And world feeder Bermuda isn't a real big ton per acre producer. But is very pretty and what it does produce is good above average Bermuda grass.

There were some around me spreading world feeder clippings years ago and got it established that way, I had thought about it at one time.

 

[Warren Allison]

Never grazed it and only square baled it. Sold the property 3 years ago and the guy I sold it too had barged on it every summer that he has had it bailed. What's so surprising about it to me is . I only sprayed it a few times and it really didn't have any weeds in it then. The stuff stays so thick I don't think weeds could compete with it.

And world feeder Bermuda isn't a real big ton per acre producer. But is very pretty and what it does produce is good above average Bermuda grass.

World Feeder was developed more for forage rather than hay. It is very drought resistant...grows roots that reach halfway to China. My next best horse hay comes from a field with the Tifton varieties in it, but I have another with Russell Bermuda that also produces very good horse quality hay.

I test for ph every fall after the last cutting, Then test for the fertilizer mix I need in Feb. And I do after each cutting. I apply at the rate recommended from the tests. I burned the fields last month, and will spray 24D for the weeds this week. I have found over the past 50 years, that it is a waste of money to NOT fertilize according to specs. But, I raise hay for hoses...not for grazing cattle. I never put an animal on my prime hay fields. Most aren't even fenced in.

Most pastures around here will be Fescue, bermuda and clover. I will test ph and apply lime in the fall if needed, and spray them with 24D or Grazon, and usually just put out Nitrogen about this time of the year. Most times liquid nitrogen that I put the 24D in. This blend works well for us in north Ga. Fescue starts coming on about now. The bermuda kicks in and takes over about May-Sept, then after it goes dormant in the fall, you can put out nitrogen again and boost the fescue up for a few more months. Lots of people...and I have too.. will over seed perennial rye at that time, and you dang near get year-round grazing like that,

 

[504RP]

Did you use a sprig planter or seed your fields ? How did you get them established ?