Am glad I found this forum. I have many questions but will start with one. I have about 150 acres of improved coastal bermuda pastures not far from Gainesville, Texas. Historically we have leased out 70 and the balance used for hay. The baler gets half for doing the work and buys the other half at fair market value. I guess fair? Anyhow there's an area with lots of trees and it's a pain to fertilize and spray for weeds, then bale, so I fenced it off this year. Approximately 25 acres. I don't live on the place but stay up there couple days a week. I was interested in consensus of the feasibility of buying stockers in the spring and selling in the fall. I have all equipment and pens, but zero experience. Sure I'd have to have someone buy and sell for me. I have an old Progressive Farmer book on cattle and it says do your figuring right,might be better in a savings account. That was the 5% interest days. My labor is free, the land is paid for. Surely you should at least on average pay for the fertilizer, weedkiller,and 15 dollars or so an acre shouldn't you? Any help would be appreciated. Recommended books as well. The Allen Nation book was maybe a bit over my head and seemed for large operations. I haven't seen anything that compared stockers, cow calf operations etc. Thank you
Stocker strategy help needed
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If it is fenced and has water, lease it out!
With no experience that is the only way you will/can make money.
If you want to get in the cattle business, go work for a cattleman for 4 - 5 years, then come back and give it a try on your own.
Book learning alone will never do it!
SL
With no experience that is the only way you will/can make money.
If you want to get in the cattle business, go work for a cattleman for 4 - 5 years, then come back and give it a try on your own.
Book learning alone will never do it!
SL
If you have good fences and pens get some one to buy you 10 steers .. the only way to learn is by doing ... It won't take 5 years .. if you break even or lose a little momeu the first year the experience will be payment....
You've got grass? You were able to cut hay?
You're in Texas?
You're in Texas?
cross_7
Well-known member
Excellent find cross_7, very informative.
cross_7
Well-known member
i'll give my 2 cents as well so take it for what it's worth.
stockers are labor intensive.
so checking them a couple days a week probably won't work
you really need to know cattle/calves to spot trouble(sickness) before it gets out of hand.
light calves have more potental for profit and LOSS.(sickness & death)
5-6 weight cattle for me seem to be less trouble, but the profit/loss is less.
when your just needing a few calves your pretty much limited to sale barn calves, so you have no idea the history on the cattle and sickness is more of a problem.
now the link i posted has a lot of good information and one thing i would add is
nutrition is key.
getting them to eating is #1
if they won't eat then you've got trouble.
do everything you can to get them to eat.
once they start eating the battle is half won.
stockers are labor intensive.
so checking them a couple days a week probably won't work
you really need to know cattle/calves to spot trouble(sickness) before it gets out of hand.
light calves have more potental for profit and LOSS.(sickness & death)
5-6 weight cattle for me seem to be less trouble, but the profit/loss is less.
when your just needing a few calves your pretty much limited to sale barn calves, so you have no idea the history on the cattle and sickness is more of a problem.
now the link i posted has a lot of good information and one thing i would add is
nutrition is key.
getting them to eating is #1
if they won't eat then you've got trouble.
do everything you can to get them to eat.
once they start eating the battle is half won.
IluvABbeef
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If I were you I would either lease out the land or buy a few cows instead if you are intent on getting cattle for your own use, money-making or otherwise. We raised stockers before and indeed they are a bit more labour intensive than cows are: more so for you if you are not familiar with signs of cattle getting sick, what to feed, vaccinations, etc.
When we first got our stockers we'd have to vaccinate them as soon as possible, then follow a month later with booster shots. Between that time the new calves had to be watched daily for signs of illness like pneumonia or shipping fever, because shipping fever, especially with calves that have come from a livestock auction, will always hit a few days later, and you NEED to be there to catch the initial signs of snotty noses, coughing, lethargic behaviour, etc. so you can treat them ASAP. If you don't catch them soon enough, you can and will loose them.
If you buy calves that are 500 to 600 lbs (or 5 to 6 weight) you will have to train them to eat from a feed bunk or bale feeder. Calling them to get their attention, feeding them when they're hungry, putting the feed out where they have easy access to them or is where the designated feeding area is are some methods to use to get them to eat. When we introduced silage to our new stocker steer calves, we'd put it on the ground for the first few days until most were looking forward to getting fed. Once we got a number that were interested, we could start feeding them in the bunks. We wouldn't wait until ALL of the steers were looking for feed, we'd be waiting until most or more than half the herd were eager for more. Because once you get one interested, most or all the rest of the herd will be interested too.
What you feed is also important. Sometimes grass isn't enough to feed stockers, if you want them to gain well enough to be sold in the fall. Not only should the grass be of good to excellent quality, but if the grass isn't as good quality as you need to feed young cattle like stockers, you need to supplement pretty well daily with concentrates like grain. It will hurt the wallet if you want to sell stockers that are not exactly at a good weight or body condition to be sold to a feedlot.
As far as feed quality is concerned, stockers need around 16 to 12% crude protein in their diet and enough energy content (as in TDN for forage and NE for concentrate) for them to gain weight. Protein alone isn't enough for them to gain weight, they also need energy from carbohydrate, fats and the like.
Yes, stockers are less intensive in the way that you don't have to worry about planning breeding, weaning and calving seasons, but it's a different story as far as health and feeding is concerned.
When we first got our stockers we'd have to vaccinate them as soon as possible, then follow a month later with booster shots. Between that time the new calves had to be watched daily for signs of illness like pneumonia or shipping fever, because shipping fever, especially with calves that have come from a livestock auction, will always hit a few days later, and you NEED to be there to catch the initial signs of snotty noses, coughing, lethargic behaviour, etc. so you can treat them ASAP. If you don't catch them soon enough, you can and will loose them.
If you buy calves that are 500 to 600 lbs (or 5 to 6 weight) you will have to train them to eat from a feed bunk or bale feeder. Calling them to get their attention, feeding them when they're hungry, putting the feed out where they have easy access to them or is where the designated feeding area is are some methods to use to get them to eat. When we introduced silage to our new stocker steer calves, we'd put it on the ground for the first few days until most were looking forward to getting fed. Once we got a number that were interested, we could start feeding them in the bunks. We wouldn't wait until ALL of the steers were looking for feed, we'd be waiting until most or more than half the herd were eager for more. Because once you get one interested, most or all the rest of the herd will be interested too.
What you feed is also important. Sometimes grass isn't enough to feed stockers, if you want them to gain well enough to be sold in the fall. Not only should the grass be of good to excellent quality, but if the grass isn't as good quality as you need to feed young cattle like stockers, you need to supplement pretty well daily with concentrates like grain. It will hurt the wallet if you want to sell stockers that are not exactly at a good weight or body condition to be sold to a feedlot.
As far as feed quality is concerned, stockers need around 16 to 12% crude protein in their diet and enough energy content (as in TDN for forage and NE for concentrate) for them to gain weight. Protein alone isn't enough for them to gain weight, they also need energy from carbohydrate, fats and the like.
Yes, stockers are less intensive in the way that you don't have to worry about planning breeding, weaning and calving seasons, but it's a different story as far as health and feeding is concerned.
IluvABbeef
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We kept our steers for a full year, buying in late fall/early winter, raising them on good-quality timothy-brome-alfalfa mix hay and feed barley silage (before silage we'd be feeding hay and chopped barley). Come May these stockers were put out on pasture for the summer into the fall. If the pasture was poor quality or the cattle appear to be loosing weight rather than gaining (which happened only rarely here) we would supplement with chopped barley. In the past though, chopped barley would be supplemented regardless of the quality of the pasture, it was just a good way to get them to gain a bit more. Then, once they gained sufficient weight (~900 lb) and had an average condition of 5 out of a BCS of 9, they'd be sold to a local feedlot.
Dad was always around to feed or keep an eye on the steers in case one came up sick, especially during the initial few weeks to couple months they came on the farm. In your case it really wouldn't be cost effective to raise stockers if you can't check on them every day, especially the first month or two they are getting used to their new home.
In addition to what I posted in my first post, rates of sickness in young cattle, is high mostly because not only have they just come from a high-stress environment being the salebarn (or what I also call the livestock auction mart), but also from being separated from their mommas in the weaning process of being separated then shipped onto the truck almost immediately. Calves that are stressed out have lower immunity, and thus are more inclined to get sick. Hence the vaccinations immediately upon arrival.
Dad was always around to feed or keep an eye on the steers in case one came up sick, especially during the initial few weeks to couple months they came on the farm. In your case it really wouldn't be cost effective to raise stockers if you can't check on them every day, especially the first month or two they are getting used to their new home.
In addition to what I posted in my first post, rates of sickness in young cattle, is high mostly because not only have they just come from a high-stress environment being the salebarn (or what I also call the livestock auction mart), but also from being separated from their mommas in the weaning process of being separated then shipped onto the truck almost immediately. Calves that are stressed out have lower immunity, and thus are more inclined to get sick. Hence the vaccinations immediately upon arrival.
Why not get one hay cutting in May, save your grass and run stockers on the whole place from Nov-> April.
FYI: If you can only commit 2 days a week, having cows may be a bad idea. Alot can happen in 5 days. :2cents:
FYI: If you can only commit 2 days a week, having cows may be a bad idea. Alot can happen in 5 days. :2cents:
Thanks for the information and points of view. That link was informative. I have a neighbor much into the business that I lease to,and could probably partner with him. Might pick up knowledge from him. But some things don't last,ya know? We did have one cutting of 50 5x6 bales,which would normally be maybe 80,but nothing since. Very dry. I am in my 50s and may need a means of income as I reach retirement. That's a while away, but I'm not just real optimistic about the stock market in the next 10 years. But who knows? And losing some money isn't the end of the world,usually have to pay for education. Thanks again.
cross_7
Well-known member
right now the hay market would probably make more money than cattle.
thats good cow country, i have freinds over in muenster that run 200 hd of cows and cut lots of hay on less acres than it takes to run 25 hd here.
i'd sure look at cows first.
thats good cow country, i have freinds over in muenster that run 200 hd of cows and cut lots of hay on less acres than it takes to run 25 hd here.
i'd sure look at cows first.
Yeah, we are quite close to that area. Just have the 25 acres that are feasibly unbaleable due to tree density. Has good grass. Just Breaking even on the pasture maintenance in that area would be ok with me. Also from what I understand running cattle on land is better for pastures than continous hay operations in that the cattle redistribute some nutrients. Hate the thought that it's virtually impossible to make money or even break even unless am a master cattleman as one post suggested. Wonder what profit margin on average the best cattlemen enjoy, assuming labor and land is free???
cross_7
Well-known member
lots of variables
your land is paid for, so that helps your bottom line a lot.
acres per cow(some land in the area can handle a cow to the acre)
ferterlizer cost
spraying for weeds
equipment cost and maintenance
cost of cows to start (once the cows pay for themselves then profits increase)
fencing cost if not fenced to hold cattle.
general up keep( water well, water trough, fence repair, tractor upkeep, equip upkeep and etc, etc, etc,)
again i aint an expert so take this with a grain of salt.
i would figure a budget of what it would cost to get started
then figure what the calves are worth when sold( weaning age or hold til yearlings if you can)
then figure how many years to see a return on your money and decide whether it's worth it to you.
your land is paid for, so that helps your bottom line a lot.
acres per cow(some land in the area can handle a cow to the acre)
ferterlizer cost
spraying for weeds
equipment cost and maintenance
cost of cows to start (once the cows pay for themselves then profits increase)
fencing cost if not fenced to hold cattle.
general up keep( water well, water trough, fence repair, tractor upkeep, equip upkeep and etc, etc, etc,)
again i aint an expert so take this with a grain of salt.
i would figure a budget of what it would cost to get started
then figure what the calves are worth when sold( weaning age or hold til yearlings if you can)
then figure how many years to see a return on your money and decide whether it's worth it to you.
snickers
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25 acres isnt that much to put to much of anything on, i'd put 10 to 12 bred cow's and start with that. at the end of the year you have more grass than they could eat buy some more. same with calves start out small and grow from there.
IluvABbeef
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If you had more land you could rotate pastures and hay fields, like have one or two fields as hay the one year and the next as pasture. Of course this can only work if you aren't at maximum carrying-capacity for the number of cattle you can raise on your pastures.
Knowing your stocking rate is important to knowing how many cattle you can run per acre of pasture. Also divide up your big main pastures into various paddocks so you have more grass to go around and more time allowed for the grass that was grazed to grow back. Doing this prevents overgrazing and/growth of undesirable plant species that your cattle would pick over if they were given free-range of your 25 acres of pasture space. It may be a little more labour intensive, but it'll increase your profit margin as far as being a grass-farmer is concerned.
Knowing your stocking rate is important to knowing how many cattle you can run per acre of pasture. Also divide up your big main pastures into various paddocks so you have more grass to go around and more time allowed for the grass that was grazed to grow back. Doing this prevents overgrazing and/growth of undesirable plant species that your cattle would pick over if they were given free-range of your 25 acres of pasture space. It may be a little more labour intensive, but it'll increase your profit margin as far as being a grass-farmer is concerned.
cross_7
Well-known member
phydeaux":wwybl8w3 said:
i think the question is about roi
right ?
Douglas
Well-known member
What about talking to cattlemen in the area. See if someone wants to use your place next summer to raise replacements. There will be a lot of heard rebuilding next year. Sort of a joint venture where you get paid for added weight. Gives you time to learn some things and another set of eyes when you are away.
