Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[StrojanHerefords]

Much of the hostility against Mr. Allison seems to revolve around the idea that half corriente calves are inferior to straight angus calves. Where is the evidence that this is the case?
I could very easily see that a calf raised on a lower milking cow having more capacity for gain than a high milking angus.

 

[wbvs58]

I just went back and read the original post and I can't for the life of me see how it was "stirring the pot". I thought it was a very reasonable question to ask and I thought it was a good strategy to utilize your place until more suitable cattle are available at a reasonable price. I would say go for it.
Maybe the words LH/corriente should have been left out and maybe some rough scrubber cows used instead. I still don't know how things deteriorated so badly. In my opinion things hit rock bottom when Sthrn cowboy and Warren threatened other members, yes they were threats and this is not acceptable on here.

Ken

 

[Brute 23]

Much of the hostility against Mr. Allison seems to revolve around the idea that half corriente calves are inferior to straight angus calves. Where is the evidence that this is the case?
I could very easily see that a calf raised on a lower milking cow having more capacity for gain than a high milking angus.

It revolves around the fact he wants to make a 100K bet with cattle he doesn't even have.

 

[Little Joe]

@BFE I'm going to try and steer this thread back onto the rails, long answer made short, yes you can make money on those type of cows bought at the right price. I believe you said you could get them for $400, short of the cow dying altogether you can't hardly lose on that deal. I know alot of people don't want them because they are worried about what others will think, I just worry about what's gonna make me a dollar and those kind at the right price definitely can make money. Given the right opportunity and price on the right ones I would buy some again.

 

[Brute 23]

This is exactly like last time. Warren talked himself in to a bind and now strncowboy mysteriously appears to create a distraction so Warren can sneak off. Same game... different day.

How do you tell him you are in a bind, again? Do you call? Do you have a big light you shine in the air?

I'm going to need a couple days off now to go to my safe space. All this Skippy and Skooter talk really hurt my simple, fragile mind.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Why do these threads always turn into such a sh** show?

I believe the OP was bored and just wanted to start some holiday cheer

 

[Brute 23]

He ain't going to Texas, @simme . He wouldn't waste the time and fuel on that puke... who'd probably be afraid to meet him alone face -to-face anyway. But if he did go, he might would take some BEFORE pics of Skippy for ya, but I don't think he would take any AFTER pics of what was left of him!

Are you talking about before and after pics of me?

What are yall going to do? Like I said, if you have some thing to say... say it... don't try to slip it in like those cattle you sell.

 

[simme]

Found this today on Drovers. I think there is good information here related to value of cattle and maybe just a little diversion from the nonsense. Baseline is USDA choice carcass. The red below the line is the discount for select grade carcass. Notice that the current discount for select carcass is almost $30/hundred pounds. That is a considerable discount. Notice that the discount 15 years ago was in the $5/hundred range. The green above the choice line is the CAB premium. Notice that the CAB premium is always less than the select discount.

When people think "will these cattle make money for me?", should they also consider "what cattle will make the most money for me?" Is it enough just to make some money or better to shoot for cattle that will return more money per head (per acre might be a better gauge)?

Probably many opinions about what type cattle those are. But for the guys further up the ladder, that chart above must figure into the logic somehow. Either directly or in anticipation of what the next buyer up the ladder will pay based on his anticipation of performance.

What type cattle get that CAB premium might be too controversial to point out. But what type cattle get that select discount (bigger than the cab premium)? Seems to me that shooting to at least get that choice grade needs to be part of the plan for most. Is there a connection to genetics, breed and feeding to hit that choice grade? The cow/calf guy does not directly get paid based on that chart, but those people that decide what to pay for your cattle are influenced by it, I guess.

I am sure that there will always be some cases where select cattle make the largest profit on paper due to unusual low cost of purchase, feeding, accounting methods, miracles or whatever. But that might not be the most likely case.

Here is the link to the article if anyone is interested.

CAB Insider: Carcass Premium Spreads Continue Strength

The shift to tighter fed cattle supplies and smaller slaughter head counts pushed year to date (YTD) fed cattle prices up 22% on average for the year.

www.drovers.com

 

[Ebenezer]

Discussions like this do not separate us from the apes.

 

[mwj]

There is money to be made on all classes of cattle. The main thing to remember is that trends are covering large areas and sales are usually local.

I can buy all of the cattle that would make money in other areas and still go broke.

 

[alacowman1]

 

[Ouachita]

Discussions like this do not separate us from the apes.

Agree. It is the height of foolishness to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

 

[Travlr]

I do wish that the ones on here that actually know these things... would speak up on here.

Huh... and here I was thinking that was what was already happening...

Ya know, other people get PMs too, Warren.

 

[Travlr]

Much of the hostility against Mr. Allison seems to revolve around the idea that half corriente calves are inferior to straight angus calves. Where is the evidence that this is the case?
I could very easily see that a calf raised on a lower milking cow having more capacity for gain than a high milking angus.

Yup, that's it for me. I consider knowingly and intentionally selling applesauce with lead in it (I'm sure most of you reading this has seen this on the news in the last few days), because you could get cheaper cinnamon due to the excess lead in it... as unethical.

I've worked hard to provide a product to my buyers that will turn out as expected. Something they can count on. Not hiding an inferior, $2 product under a mask that makes it look like a $10 product.

Show me those Corriente crosses that finish at 1300 pounds with the same time frame and amount of feed as the European crosses... as buyers are expecting when they buy these black hide masked calves.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

@BFE @StrojanHerefords

I have no problem with it as long as people are willing to stand up and put their name on their product. If there is no deception then a person should have no issue saying... I am "so and so" and I have these bred up LH or Corriente calves... then let the chips fall.

His whole premise from the get go has been a buyer can't tell my calves from the other black calves coming through. When Warren specifically says he won't allow the truth in his "game" and he purposely mentions they run by so fast the buyers can't tell... it shows that his "plan" does not work if the buyers know the truth. I do not know a better word to describe not wanting some one to know some thing to add value.

View attachment 38392

There is nothing wrong with raising Corriente or LH cattle if that is what you want... but don't come on here throwing words and money around saying it's the best way.

What ever way a person considers their best way is, it's the best way for them, just because your way is different, doesn't make their's wrong, it just makes it different.

 

[Travlr]

What ever way a person considers their best way is, it's the best way for them, just because your way is different, doesn't make their's wrong, it just makes it different.

There are all kinds of exceptions to that.

 

[Dave]

These discussions get interesting if not funny. Locally the main feeder calf buyer are feedlot owners with thousands on feed. The one exception to that is the head buyer for a big outfit which owns 6 or 7 feedlots with well over 200,000 on feed. They all know and can spot a LH or Corriente cross and pay accordingly if they buy them at all. Most of them wont buy them. There is one guy who is somewhat of a bottom feeder. He does buy them but at a heavily discounted price. Right now a good beef steer calf is $2.50 to $2.80 depending on weight. A LH or Corriente cross is $1.25. You do the math. If that works for you more power to you.

 

[Brute 23]

A friend of mine runs corriente cows with Black Angus bulls. They thought they were going to do roping steers but ended up just trying a cow/ calf deal. Yes, he paid sub $500 for the cows. At one point he did do ok on the calves but it was in a high market when all the classes were bringing good money. When you started to see the spreads on #1, 2s, etc, he took a beating. A good corriente X calf is still a sub par beef calf, in the eyes of a buyer. The benefit is he had a low buy in so lower calf prices don't hurt near as bad. The down side is when the market really goes up, like we saw a couple months ago, he doesn't get all that upside like raising #1s.

That's my real experience with Corriente X calves, for what ever it is worth.

 

[Bob Kinford]

That's a fun old trope, and certainly everyone values their own, whether an azz hole or an opinion. But all azz holes are not created equal. Some have much more value to those that are looking for quality.

Having been in the business for 50 years, the real question is who are they valued by, and why do they value them? Black Angus are only "valued" because of a long term marketing ploy by the Angus Association. If anyone wants to talk about being dishonest, look at that program. As long as the animal is black hided and grades within the parameters, the consumer pays out the nose for "certified Angus."

"Feed efficient" genetics is another lie, which only benefits the feeders. While many of these genetics may be able to perform in the feedlot, their mothers and bulls which sire them can't make it on the kind of marginal country that many producers are running on without feeding a bunch of high dollar supplements.

If you want to see "feed efficiency" look at what cattle will bring you the highest percentage of weaned weight, with the least amount of outputs, under the harshest conditions. Those cattle may not be able to handle the hottest rations in the feedlot, but their ADG will be comparable to the "feed efficient" cattle which can handle the hotter feed. So what about a smaller carcass size? The only ones profiting from a larger carcass size is the packer and feeder charging you for feed. In the end, those Corriente cross cows eat less (without requiring you to buy stock in Purina or Cargill) while weaning at least 50% of their body weight. Their calves will finish in the same amount of time (on less (expense & volume) rations and still grade choice.

 

[Bob Kinford]

These discussions get interesting if not funny. Locally the main feeder calf buyer are feedlot owners with thousands on feed. The one exception to that is the head buyer for a big outfit which owns 6 or 7 feedlots with well over 200,000 on feed. They all know and can spot a LH or Corriente cross and pay accordingly if they buy them at all. Most of them wont buy them. There is one guy who is somewhat of a bottom feeder. He does buy them but at a heavily discounted price. Right now a good beef steer calf is $2.50 to $2.80 depending on weight. A LH or Corriente cross is $1.25. You do the math. If that works for you more power to you.

Basically thats only because they buy into the packer deal of wanting bigger frame cattle. The guys buying them at discount are making more per head across the rail because they finish cheaper and are going to grade the same. They also discount rat tailed cattle. I knew a trader who bought every rat tail he could get his hands on. Said he made more money off of those cattle across the rail than any other breed.