Starting on my own- Have Questions!

[mjlabs]

Hello, My names Mark and I live in Central Illinois on our family farm. I myself have only a few acres of land however I have access to more pasture if needed. I have raised several types of animals before so I do know the basics of animal care. I do not plan on showing cattle or need any champion bloodlines. Sorry if I ask alot of questions but I'm new to raising cattle and dont want to just jump in without knowing all I can. At this time I'm just looking for one or two heifers to start out with. I am able to pasture them with a bull when it comes time to have her bred. I was looking at the market reports at the local sale barn and dont understand the price. For example, one large feeder heifer was 440lb at an average price of $186. Is that the cost per 100lbs, for example, or just the cost for the heifer....surely not for that price??? What can I expect to pay approx. out the door for one or two heifers? Next what breed or cross breed would you recommend for grazing, where I live,ease of calving etc? I believe most farmers around here have angus. hereford, simmental crosses. I have more questions but I'll stop here. Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[HOSS]

Mark,

If I were you I would avoid heifers for now until you get some experience under your belt. Heifers have a much higher probablility of calving problems than cows. I would probably start with a couple of steers to see how things go and to see if you are going to like working with cattle. I would fatten those steer up and sell them, take the proceeds and buy a couple of 5 or 6 year old cows.

I am familiar with your area and the breeds you mentioned all work well in that environment. You will probably get more growth out of a crossbred steer such as an Angus x Simi or an Angus x Herford.

The price that you mentioned is per 100 lbs. In may be easier to look at it as $1.86 per pound. Markets vary all over the place so you will have to look at your local sale results to get an idea on what you will pay.

Some things to consider are:

1. Facilities to handle and work cattle
2. Transportation - either own trailer, borrowed trailer or rented trailer
3. Access to hay for winter feed
4. Would cows have access to water

Welcome to the boards and good luck in what you decide to do.

 

[gonzo]

You grew up on a farm so you must know your first order of buisness is a good fence if you don't already have one . number 2 is water if you can't reach it with ahose you gotta haul it . Your weather is a little less harsh than where Iam but you still have to keep water from freezin. You got a better head start than most knowledge ,land, and your not too bullheaded to ask questions. welcome to the boards and good luck. P.S. you can learn alot here from what to buy to how to cook it don't be afraid to ask. :tiphat:

 

[Lawson Farms]

I would second the idea of holding off on buying heifers. Start with a steer or two as suggested above, or buy a bred cow from a private seller. I've always tried to keep away from the bred cows at the sale barn, b/c they are there for a reason, and it's usually not b/c the owner had too many cows.

But with a 3-6 year old cow, you've got one that should know how to get the job done (calve w/o assistance and raise a calf).

We bought some heifers a few years ago, and even with having a decent idea of how to handle things, just the percentage of 1st time calvers was more than I want to handle again.

 

[B&M Farms]

If It was me I would buy a bred cow or heifer too to start. If you buy a 4 or 5wt heifer your over two years from having a calf to sale plus cost of raising her. A bred cow thats already had a few calves would be better.

 

[B&M Farms]

I would second the idea of holding off on buying heifers. Start with a steer or two as suggested above, or buy a bred cow from a private seller. I've always tried to keep away from the bred cows at the sale barn, b/c they are there for a reason, and it's usually not b/c the owner had too many cows.

But with a 3-6 year old cow, you've got one that should know how to get the job done (calve w/o assistance and raise a calf).

We bought some heifers a few years ago, and even with having a decent idea of how to handle things, just the percentage of 1st time calvers was more than I want to handle again.

I would agree with staying away from salebarns if you are inexperienced at buying cows, but not all cows at salebarns are bad deals. I've seen some really good commercial cattle go through salebarns at times. Some salebarns do consignments for bigger operations. A lot of good cows went through salebarns here this last year because of the drought. I started out buying salebarn cows and made money off of them. I still have a few. They were worth keeping.

 

[piedmontese]

If It was me I would buy a bred cow or heifer too to start. If you buy a 4 or 5wt heifer your over two years from having a calf to sale plus cost of raising her. A bred cow thats already had a few calves would be better.

at what age do u breed? i figure my heifers are 2 yrs from calving when they r born.

 

[B&M Farms]

If It was me I would buy a bred cow or heifer too to start. If you buy a 4 or 5wt heifer your over two years from having a calf to sale plus cost of raising her. A bred cow thats already had a few calves would be better.

at what age do u breed? i figure my heifers are 2 yrs from calving when they r born.

I breed at 15 months also. I don't count a calf when it hits the ground. I count it when its sold.

 

[Lawson Farms]

I would agree with staying away from salebarns if you are inexperienced at buying cows, but not all cows at salebarns are bad deals. I've seen some really good commercial cattle go through salebarns at times. Some salebarns do consignments for bigger operations. A lot of good cows went through salebarns here this last year because of the drought. I started out buying salebarn cows and made money off of them. I still have a few. They were worth keeping.

Yes, I agree. We have bought several bred cows from the sale barn from consignments, etc. But I'm still wary of buying individual bred cows unless they are super cheap. And I'm still probably not experienced enough for the risk to be worth it.

We have a group of consigned cows from the sale barn now that we bought at thanksgiving. They are calving now. Bred to a "low-birthweight black angus bull." So far we've had (2) black calves and (5) BWF calves out of (6) black cows and (1) BWF cow. Yesterday we had the lightest brown colored calf I've ever seen, out of a black hided cow bred to this "low BW black angus bull". It looked like a deer from across the pasture. We got them at a good price, and as long as they raise a good calf i guess I'll be happy.

 

[mjlabs]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I think for now I will avoid the sale barn if possible, I know quite a few friends/family that have livestock so hopefully I can find a mature cow through them or get a connection. (your probably asking yourself why I didnt just ask them these questions). Besides a livestock trailer I pretty much have everything covered(or so I think) Hay is not a problem nor is water supply and have plenty of pasture so thats gotta be a good start. If I think of more questions I'll be sure to ask, this is a great forum.

Mark

 

[Ruark]

Another important thing is to get a good CPA. Be SURE you get one with farm/ranch experience. If you're using it to generate any kind of income, even just selling a couple of cows now and then, your CPA can guide you through all kinds of tax deductions. The IRS allows you several years to get started; you don't have to make money right off the bat. You need to have some legitimacy, especially in case you get audited: register the farm with the county, open a business checking account, print some business cards, maybe some paper with a letterhead. Keep all your records using a ranch management software package like CattleMax. Join a rancher's organization and have the membership sign up by your front gate. Maybe a little web site. You get the picture.

You can deduct any expense related to your "farm operation." Tractors, parts, diesel, repairs and maintenance, tires, office supplies, welding equipment, power tools, herbicides, gates/fencing, pens, feed, troughs, rentals, medicines, repainting, road and pond work, all kinds of things, even the light bulbs in the barn. If you have an old pickup truck, register it as a "farm truck" and any expenses related to that truck (gas, tires, repairs, registration, etc.) is deductible. You can also deduct mileage, regardless of vehicle, for trips into town to buy anything farm-related. I recently deducted a couple of boxes of ammo I bought to shoot coyotes with: "predator control." A couple of weeks ago I traveled to a nearby city to attend training for a herbicide applicator license. All of that cost, as well as the license application fees, were deductible.

The question is, can you show that it supports your farm operation? If you can, it's good. Just keep the receipts and record the expenses in your software. There are also deductions for depreciation. For example, the fence around your property depreciates, as well as any capital equipment, farm vehicles and trailers, storage buildings, etc. Again, a good farm/ranch CPA is extremely valuable here; he or she knows how to calculate all this.

Hope that helps. Have fun!

 

[John SD]

I really don't have much to add to what everyone here has posted. I agree that for someone starting out, just raising steers or getting a couple older bred cows would probably be better than jumping into calving heifers until you get some experience under your belt. Cattle are herd animals and I believe a single animal would not be content all alone.

While it is true at the sale barn the breeding stock for sale can be someone else's culls, sometimes a person can get top notch animals when someone disperses a herd. Most times the sale barn will allow a "gate cut" to the high bidder of a couple cows off the draft in the ring.

There are other times a cow is seperated off the rest just because she is off-colored or has frozen ears and a bob tail. She may be a good cow otherwise and her defects are merely cosmetic. The thing you have to watch for on bob ear/tail cows is if her feet have been damaged. Any cow you buy should be physically and mentally sound. Good feet, good udder with small teats, etc.

There are some good old cows *8+ yrs and older that will be culled and sold from larger herds because of their age. Older cows simply can't compete with the younger cows. These are called broken mouth cows (missing teeth) These cows might have a few years left in them if they are sound otherwise but probably need a little extra TLC in the winter which a small operation like yours could provide.

A wild, mean, or crazy cow in the ring usually indicates she has that type of personality. This type of cow needs to go to the slaughter plant regardless of age and soundness and is not really appropriate for anyone, especially a beginner.

When you buy your calf or cow, I would recommend you consult your local veterinarian about the proper immunizations and timing of the shots needed for your animal(s).

You should keep salt available to your cattle at all times, either block or loose salt would be fine. For a couple head, I would probably go with block. At minimum I keep trace mineral salt in front of my cattle at all times. Around $6-$7 each. Sometimes I use a hi-trace mineral salt with EDDI which has a higher level of iodine in it. What is needed in your area may vary. Feeding mineral is a good policy to insure your cattle get enough calcium, phosphorus, and trace minerals along with vitamin A, D, and E.

On the topic of vaccines to discuss with your local vet: Modified Live Virus (MLV) vaccines are usually cheaper and more effective than killed virus vaccines. Some MLV vaccines can be used on pregnant cows or on calves nursing pregnant cows IF the cows have been vaccinated annually. If there is any doubt about this, use killed vaccines or the pregnant cow can abort the fetal calf she is carrying.

Good luck and if you have more questions feel free to ask.

 

[mjlabs]

Ruark- What does CPA stand for?

John SD- Is a vet a must for most vaccines/immunizations? Dont get me wrong, I'm not a cheap-skate. When we had litters of puppies we would administer all shots/medicine ourselves. Can this be true with cattle also?

 

[John SD]

Of course you can administer the shots yourself. You can also buy the necessary vaccines at a lot of feed and farm supply stores. I do like to keep most of my veterinary pharmaceutical purchases with the local vet just to throw some business their way if I need emergency assistance from the vet sometime. Although I admit I don't always practice what I preach. Last year I bought my branding supplies at the local feed store.

The only thing you actually need the vet for is for something like Bangs (brucellosis) vaccinations. Since SD is a Bangs-free state there is no longer any legal requirement to vaccinate for it and I haven't done it for a few years. The last time the vet did it I think it cost $3.50 per head with no mileage charge. There are two vets based 40 miles from my place. Usually the vet lines up a full day's work among several herds.

The downside to not Bangs vaccinating is if I wanted to disperse my herd, none of my unvaccinated cows can be sold for breeding stock outside of the state, or at least not without a blood test. I don't know what the Bangs status is or what the law is in your state.

CPA = Certified Public Accountant

 

[herofan]

I was looking at the market reports at the local sale barn and dont understand the price. For example, one large feeder heifer was 440lb at an average price of $186. Is that the cost per 100lbs, for example, or just the cost for the heifer....surely not for that price???

I'm glad you asked that. I found those sale reports to be a bit confusing too.

You should keep salt available to your cattle at all times, either block or loose salt would be fine. For a couple head, I would probably go with block. At minimum I keep trace mineral salt in front of my cattle at all times. Around $6-$7 each. Sometimes I use a hi-trace mineral salt with EDDI which has a higher level of iodine in it. What is needed in your area may vary. Feeding mineral is a good policy to insure your cattle get enough calcium, phosphorus, and trace minerals along with vitamin A, D, and E.

I see that you recommend blocks. I asked a question here a while back and it seemed that people didn't think too highly of blocks but preferred loose.

 

[John SD]

I prefer loose salt too, but with only 2 cows there sure ain't much competition and any significant amount of loose salt put out will probably turn into a block anyway unless it's doled out in lesser amounts over a period of time.

My cows are crazy for both salt and mineral this winter. They have been consistantly eating about 50lbs/day since the grass dried up last fall. I get 6 - 50 lb bags when I'm in town because that's about the weight limit of what I can haul in the trunk of the car.

The 6 bags last about 6 days and the same goes for mineral. I also have a dozen or so salt blocks out too. I figure a lot of access means the cattle can be eating the salt and mineral, get a drink at the tank, and be back out grazing. I can also look over the cattle when they come in for water because I'm a little scared about the fire danger driving out in the pasture.

I've also fed Vigortone loose mineral this winter, either 3V2S or 3V4S and some Ranch Hand 8% mineral tubs. The cows are grazing dormant winter grass and I haven't fed any hay this winter. Guy at the feed store says everyone's cattle are going through a lot of salt and mineral with the extended grazing season this winter.

I expect the cows to slack off when green grass eventually gets here. We do need rain here, or even a good wet spring snowstorm would be appreciated. It's very nice but much too early for these 70 degree temps.

 

[E in PA]

I was pretty much in your shoes a couple years back. I went to a nearby farmer who raised angus. I bought 2 smaller weaned heifer calves off of him. I figured I would raise them til the next spring and then decide to butcher or breed. Kept them, bred them and now one has calved and i am waiting on the 2nd one. But this is 17 months after i bought them, and i will have to wait another 7 months to sell their calves. it all depends how quick of a "return on your investment" you want. i dont regret my decision, but if i had it to do again, i would have bought bred cows from him. which i did this past fall. he would have sold me the same cows when i bought the heifers. one is 10 the other 6. your looking at a "return" in 1 year for the cows instead of 2 for the heifers. just my 2 cents.

 

[Crazy Farmgirl]

If there are farmers that you know near you the best thing may be to go to them and offer to help in exchange for knowledge and experience, or at least form a solid relationship with them so that when problems crop up (and they will) you'll have someone to turn to for advice. Most farmers I have met are more than willing to share their knowlege and if your willing to give them a hand they will be more likely to do the same for you.

As for the vet you want to have them out BEFORE you have problems. If they know you and your cattle they will be more likely to help you in a pinch over the phone, if they have never been there you may find that you will have to have them come out for the simplest things. Be sure to ask him/her about vaccinations recommended for your area and common parasite/viral/bacterial problems common in your area and how to prevent or treat. Also share your animals experience with them (if they don't know you) so they will have an idea of your capabilities in treating animals, they will be more likely to prescibe things to have on hand if they know your not a newbie whose never given a shot before. A good vet is worth his/her weight in gold but if they don't trust you they will cost you a boatload of gold.

As far as the cows I would do as you and others have stated and find mild tempered bred cows or steers from a local farmer. They will save you alot of headaches until you have more experience and work the "kinks" out your plans and property.

Good Luck and most of all Have Fun !!

 

[HEREFORD ROADHOG]

If there are farmers that you know near you the best thing may be to go to them and offer to help in exchange for knowledge and experience, or at least form a solid relationship with them so that when problems crop up (and they will) you'll have someone to turn to for advice. Most farmers I have met are more than willing to share their knowlege and if your willing to give them a hand they will be more likely to do the same for you.

As for the vet you want to have them out BEFORE you have problems. If they know you and your cattle they will be more likely to help you in a pinch over the phone, if they have never been there you may find that you will have to have them come out for the simplest things. Be sure to ask him/her about vaccinations recommended for your area and common parasite/viral/bacterial problems common in your area and how to prevent or treat. Also share your animals experience with them (if they don't know you) so they will have an idea of your capabilities in treating animals, they will be more likely to prescibe things to have on hand if they know your not a newbie whose never given a shot before. A good vet is worth his/her weight in gold but if they don't trust you they will cost you a boatload of gold.

As far as the cows I would do as you and others have stated and find mild tempered bred cows or steers from a local farmer. They will save you alot of headaches until you have more experience and work the "kinks" out your plans and property.

Good Luck and most of all Have Fun !!

Who said you were crazy ??

 

[Crazy Farmgirl]

I have my moments!!