Sludge as pasture fertilizer

[pdfangus]

Hook (and others)

I appreciate your concerns.
I work a day job in soil and water conservation.....
I have livestock on the side....
I have been a lifelong livestock man and I am 62 and a half years old.
back in the seventies the big problem with biosolids applications was it stunk to high heaven.
Odor problems and regulation have caused the processors to come a long way in their treatments.
Where we are the applications are limited. we can not treat a field more than every three years.
Most drug residues are in the water fraction and I am sure that issue will be dealt with over time.
Simple composting would deal with most issues.....however to compost you have to store and storeage is regulated on the farm so the best solution is abandoned due to regulation. some times the solution is worse than the problem.
In our area most biosolids today are lime stabilized and pretty safe. certainly high in lime. which becomes another limiting factor in application rates. you don't want to over apply and mess up the soil ph.

I see it all the time....producers are expected to do all these things for the environment that cost a fortune. So they can manintain certifications to sell products. the certifications are often assoicated with premium prices but the price of maintaining the certifications can be high.

 

[Douglas]

Nice post PDF. Around here the extension office and soil and water are reluctant to take a position on biosolids. It is safer for them to point out all the potential problems and take no stand. If corn and beans stay high priced and livestock falls, fertilizer cost (ethanol) will bankrupt us without alternatives. Heck people used to feel cattle chicken litter years ago here and still do in places. Animal waste used in "organic" production is considered the best thing since sliced bread. People are afraid of what they don't understand.

 

[pdfangus]

Nice post PDF. Around here the extension office and soil and water are reluctant to take a position on biosolids. It is safer for them to point out all the potential problems and take no stand. If corn and beans stay high priced and livestock falls, fertilizer cost (ethanol) will bankrupt us without alternatives. Heck people used to feel cattle chicken litter years ago here and still do in places. Animal waste used in "organic" production is considered the best thing since sliced bread. People are afraid of what they don't understand.

chicken litter is still used as a silage addative in some spots around Virginia as well. Fertilizer prices have certainly boosted the prices of chicken litter as well. We don't have many chickens around my part of the state and freight from those areas that do have it is pretty much cost prohibitive. most of the cattle here are cow calf so there is not much opportunity for confinement manure either and those that have it use it. Plenty of used sawdust available but you generally have to root through it to find a horse biscuit so it is not of much use.

We have one pile in the county that is on fire now and it is so big that no one knows how to deal with it. Forty year accumulation and no one knew about it until it caught fire. Just had an e-mail about the fire pile come in while typing this. Pile is not blazing....just smoldering and smoking. smoke caused the complaint.... better go check it...

 

[Anonymous]

Animal waste used in "organic" production is considered the best thing since sliced bread. People are afraid of what they don't understand.

Animal waste is one thing. I haven't seen entire herds popping anti depressants like candy. Or anti inflammatory pain killers etc.
The problem lies in the fact that these drugs are designed in their very nature to be easily absorbed into the human body. Very effectively and quickly.
Not like DDT or benzene etc that at one point were considered safe themselves.
People are afraid of what they don't understand. But also don't care and turn a blind eye if they dont understand.
I choose, myself,to make a point to try to understand and learn about these things. And a lot of times that leads to things that I don't like and that do in fact scare me.

PDF. Thanks for the response.

 

[Dave]

Hook (and others)

I appreciate your concerns.
I work a day job in soil and water conservation.....
I have livestock on the side....
I have been a lifelong livestock man and I am 62 and a half years old.
back in the seventies the big problem with biosolids applications was it stunk to high heaven.
Odor problems and regulation have caused the processors to come a long way in their treatments.
Where we are the applications are limited. we can not treat a field more than every three years.
Most drug residues are in the water fraction and I am sure that issue will be dealt with over time.
Simple composting would deal with most issues.....however to compost you have to store and storeage is regulated on the farm so the best solution is abandoned due to regulation. some times the solution is worse than the problem.
In our area most biosolids today are lime stabilized and pretty safe. certainly high in lime. which becomes another limiting factor in application rates. you don't want to over apply and mess up the soil ph.

I see it all the time....producers are expected to do all these things for the environment that cost a fortune. So they can manintain certifications to sell products. the certifications are often assoicated with premium prices but the price of maintaining the certifications can be high.

I have the same day job as PDF. The same lifetime cattleman. Well he is 2 years older.... But I find the same thing with biosolids and we are clear across the country from one another. Remember anything which is in those biosolids have to be in a form that the plants will actually take up. And then remain in that the cattle will some how absorb into their system so that it can be absorbed into the human who eats the beefs system.

 

[lynnmcmahan]

We have a county waste water system that had a plan to spray the sludge from the ponds onto grass to sell as hay. Did a perfect job of growing grass, on trouble was the cows would not eat it. They still use the same system but sell no hay

 

[pdfangus]

We have a county waste water system that had a plan to spray the sludge from the ponds onto grass to sell as hay. Did a perfect job of growing grass, on trouble was the cows would not eat it. They still use the same system but sell no hay

CAN NOT RECALL SPECIFICS BUT I SEEM TO RECALL A SIMILAR EXPERIMENT AROUND HERE YEARS AGO....NOT HAPPENING ANY MORE BUT I CAN NOT RECALL WHY. :deadhorse: :bang: :cowboy:

 

[Douglas]

Hooknline said: "I choose, myself, to make a point to try to understand and learn about these things. And a lot of times that leads to things that I don't like and that do in fact scare me."
One of the big problems we have today is junk science. Most of it comes from people trying to profit from their lies. GMO crops are a good example. Many people are concerned about them, but I have yet to read a serious research study that shows any significant concerns that come close to the benefit GMO crops deliver. Sure there are things we need to keep testing over the long-term to ensure they are safe, but at this time the benefits far exceed any potential concerns I have. The main opponents of GMO crops are the seed companies that are not GMO, who are losing their profits to competitors. Bio-solids are not perfect, may warrant more study, but dry fertilizer can leach in the water system and cause problems as well. If you search the internet enough you will find that not getting out of bed each day is the only answer.

 

[skyhightree1]

One of the neighbors that called the Gov't called me and said the guy was spreading raw sewage out the septic truck from his cousin on the property... Said county extension agent and EPA people still at his place since about 11am this morning......

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I bet he's not supposed to do that.

 

[pdfangus]

One of the neighbors that called the Gov't called me and said the guy was spreading raw sewage out the septic truck from his cousin on the property... Said county extension agent and EPA people still at his place since about 11am this morning......

as well they should be.....
this is another matter entirely from biosolids.....
the pump truck operator is charging customers to pump this stuff .....
evading treatment fees to discharge it at a treatment plant...
dumping it illegally on the farm land ....

 

[skyhightree1]

I am not sure but if they are there that long... someones probably gonna get a hefty fine im sure what do yall think ?

 

[Anonymous]

Someone's screwed.
Douglas. In my searching one of he things I consider is who funds the research and where he study comes from. If several places support the same facts that should hold no bias one way or another I take That into account as well.
That's why I said I sure would like to see some study results of
Bio solid drug residue testing. Can't find any from any reliable sources.

 

[1wlimo]

Someone's screwed.
Douglas. In my searching one of he things I consider is who funds the research and where he study comes from. If several places support the same facts that should hold no bias one way or another I take That into account as well.
That's why I said I sure would like to see some study results of
Bio solid drug residue testing. Can't find any from any reliable sources.

Not surprised there at all.

For processing line we tested water for E. Coli, Strep etc and pesticides, no other chemicals. Had the city water fail once as well, some irrigation wells always very very good, especially for the E.Coli etc. Could be the 200 or 300 feet of filtration. Still a lot of pesticides that either were never applied on that farm or not applied for 40 years showing up.

 

[TexasBred]

Someone's screwed.
Douglas. In my searching one of he things I consider is who funds the research and where he study comes from. If several places support the same facts that should hold no bias one way or another I take That into account as well.
That's why I said I sure would like to see some study results of
Bio solid drug residue testing. Can't find any from any reliable sources.

Not surprised there at all.

For processing line we tested water for E. Coli, Strep etc and pesticides, no other chemicals. Had the city water fail once as well, some irrigation wells always very very good, especially for the E.Coli etc. Could be the 200 or 300 feet of filtration. Still a lot of pesticides that either were never applied on that farm or not applied for 40 years showing up.

Seems you could answer a lot more questions testing the people and animals that drank the water over long periods of times. Not everything in water is absorbed by humans and/or animals and not all of it ends up in the meat.

 

[1wlimo]

You are correct there TexasBred, however the law and the customers require you test the water used in irrigation and processing of veg and salad crops. The reason is more the E. Coli, Strep etc.

 

[dun]

You are correct there TexasBred, however the law and the customers require you test the water used in irrigation and processing of veg and salad crops. The reason is more the E. Coli, Strep etc.

Remember the colorado killer cantalopes last year?

 

[TexasBred]

You are correct there TexasBred, however the law and the customers require you test the water used in irrigation and processing of veg and salad crops. The reason is more the E. Coli, Strep etc.

True....but that doesn't have one thing to do with the use of human manure. It applies to all. Any water can contain these things. Knowing a small amount is in the water (all water I might add) doesn't give you any useful information as to long term affects, if any.

 

[Bigfoot]

I called our local water/sewage treatment plant today. They said about 15 years ago they let some sludge be knifed in. As best they remembered it was a public relations nightmare and haven't done it since. They said someone from out of town comes and gets some, but not all of the solids. The solids are then used for fertilizer. I guess it's not for me. Everyone tells me chicken litter is to far from here to be cost effective. I guess I'll be renting a buggy here pretty soon and stick with old standby.

 

[dun]

I am not sure but if they are there that long... someones probably gonna get a hefty fine im sure what do yall think ?

So, was the guy really dumping straight from the honey wagon?