Slow down has hit our town

[Limomike]

I gotta agree with CB on his post.. Although I never worked in a union job, my Dad was a union president for years at McDonnell Douglas. He always said unions were a necessary evil. Without them, companies take advantage of the workers.
The way I see things now, is car manuafacturers are turning out a product that alot of Americans cannot afford. Same way with many other things that are produced here in the states. Its not that they are too overpriced, its that our economy has gotten to the point where our wages cannot, and have not kept up with the rising costs of everything. (cars, houses, farm equipment, parts, untilities, etc) CEO's.... do they make too much money? How much is too much money? ARe they grossly overpaid?...yes, I think most are... but that is my opinion. To me, one word sums it up. Corporate GREED governmental control is what is ruining this nation, in big cities, and small towns across America.

 

[TexasBred]

Unskilled assembly line workers making $25-30 an hour I can live with....If they laid off half of them tomorrow I bet they could replace them before dark @ $25-30 an hour.....and they can live on it too. But $70 to 80 an hour is totally out of line. PhD college professors don't make that much. But then I've never been a member so don't feel obligated to stand up for them. I do know that when Delta Airlines filed bankruptcy and American Airlines was on the verge...they met with the unions AND the employees and met in the middle on many things which allowed them to keep flying. This included the top level folks as well. And both are still flying. And nobody's starving either. I"m wondering what the Toyota employees at the plant in San Antonio earn and if $2,000 of the price of each car is for employee health insurance.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Unskilled assembly line workers making $25-30 an hour I can live with....If they laid off half of them tomorrow I bet they could replace them before dark @ $25-30 an hour.....and they can live on it too. But $70 to 80 an hour is totally out of line. PhD college professors don't make that much. But then I've never been a member so don't feel obligated to stand up for them. I do know that when Delta Airlines filed bankruptcy and American Airlines was on the verge...they met with the unions AND the employees and met in the middle on many things which allowed them to keep flying. This included the top level folks as well. And both are still flying. And nobody's starving either. I"m wondering what the Toyota employees at the plant in San Antonio earn and if $2,000 of the price of each car is for employee health insurance.

I have never been jealous of a man for trying to improve life for his family.
What I am jealous of is we are to stupid to organize we keep buying retail and selling wholesale for whatever they will give us . We all have got to feel the belt buckle at the sale. Prices on fuel and fertilizer increase calfs go down and we keep hauling them.

 

[Brandonm22]

I am not jealous of anybody making anything; BUT when they ask for my tax dollars too bail out their company; then I think I have a right to tell them how to run their company. An autoworker making $80g now can go to $60g or the can take a hike and give that job to somebody else (illegal aliens are fine with me!!). IF the old dudes with pensions are the problem cut their check 33%. We will be glad to give them FOOD STAMPS if they need them. If you don't want me in your business don't ask me to blow $65 billion in bridge loans and preferred shares in your corporation. Heck I would just as soon the govt buy $50 billion in cars (2.5 million at $20,000 each) and hand them out to taxpayers than buy papers shares from the automakers.

 

[angie1]

Funny at all the union bashing, the unions are the reason American's have the standard of living we have today.
Many of the safety standards we have today were fought and won for workers by the union, that gave you the right to go home the same way you came to work.
I would much rather be paying an American worker supporting an American family the money than a coperation like Levi's thais producing products in third world countries paying sweat shop wages and pocketing the profits.

Bravo!! I have always been pro union and a union member ~ I cannot imagine working under any other circumstances. Very well stated.

 

[skyline]

I guess I can see both sides of this issue. I definitely understand and appreciate what organized labor has done to advance safety standards and the quality of life for the workers. On the other hand, I think that unions can become too greedy and can be used to hold a company hostage. The question is what should a union's response be to a severe downturn in a company? I would suggest that management ought to be the first to belly up and forgo bonuses (especially if American tax dollars are being used in any way to benefit the company). But.... if the unions want to save jobs, they should quickly follow with cost saving measures on their part. They shouldn't expect to have it both ways. They shouldn't demand more, demand more, and demand more, and then just sit by and let the company go broke without trying to be part of the solution. I feel just as strongly that executive pay in this country is way out of control. I think this downturn should serve as a reality check for everybody.

 

[Jogeephus]

I agree with you Skyline. People need to work together as its going to take both parties to working together to find a solution to this. If you are going give all the credit to the unions for their part in safety standards then I guess you can also give them all the blame for all the safety regulations that are cost prohibitive and impossible to abide by. These regulations stand as obstacles in the way of small businesses and serve just as another tax to squash the entrepeneurial spirit in this country. I'm not saying safety is not a concern but let's not leave out common sense in any of these equations.

 

[skyline]

Yep. I see where the Prime Minister in Great Britain has suggested that tax cuts should be part of the world wide solution to the economic mess. The man is correct. If you want someone to spend more money, start taking less of their money away from them.

 

[Jogeephus]

Yep. I see where the Prime Minister in Great Britain has suggested that tax cuts should be part of the world wide solution to the economic mess. The man is correct. If you want someone to spend more money, start taking less of their money away from them.

I don't think tax cuts alone will do it. This has got to be coupled with relaxed regulation on businesses wanting to expand or enter into new ventures. We have reached a point of diminishing returns when it comes to regulations and permitting. This has created a new government institution whose sole purpose apparantly is to suck the blood from the very people that pay for their existance. It is ridiculus to have to spend - in my case - $20,000 on environmental impact studies, silt screening, permits, etc. etc before I even break ground. On a 30 year note, this equates to around $152,000 and this is for nothing! I'm only a minnow as my idea would only employ around six people. It would generate good taxes in the form of sales tax, income tax and would provide a decent living for those who I worked there. However, I'm not going to pay $20,000 for someone to tell me water will run downhill or a "tax" to let me pursue a dream. I can change my dream right quick as I also understand that $20,000 will buy a lot of worms and cold beer. :nod:

 

[john250]

I can change my dream right quick as I also understand that $20,000 will buy a lot of worms and cold beer. :nod:

Don't forget to recycle the cans.

 

[Limomike]

The whole thing with the economy is having a snowball downhill effect. (kinda like the old Merle Haggard song) Are the good times really over ?? Economy -wise, I think so, at least for a little while.
I still say greed is the biggest problem by far in this country. And I am a firm believer in the Fairtax for everyone. If you dont know much about it.. check it out. www.fairtax.org I dont really think it will ever go over, but maybe someday it would.

 

[1982vett]

I can change my dream right quick as I also understand that $20,000 will buy a lot of worms and cold beer. :nod:

Don't forget to recycle the cans.

He77 no, glass fills a landfill faster.

 

[Frankie]

Yep. I see where the Prime Minister in Great Britain has suggested that tax cuts should be part of the world wide solution to the economic mess. The man is correct. If you want someone to spend more money, start taking less of their money away from them.

I don't think tax cuts alone will do it. This has got to be coupled with relaxed regulation on businesses wanting to expand or enter into new ventures. We have reached a point of diminishing returns when it comes to regulations and permitting. This has created a new government institution whose sole purpose apparantly is to suck the blood from the very people that pay for their existance. It is ridiculus to have to spend - in my case - $20,000 on environmental impact studies, silt screening, permits, etc. etc before I even break ground. On a 30 year note, this equates to around $152,000 and this is for nothing! I'm only a minnow as my idea would only employ around six people. It would generate good taxes in the form of sales tax, income tax and would provide a decent living for those who I worked there. However, I'm not going to pay $20,000 for someone to tell me water will run downhill or a "tax" to let me pursue a dream. I can change my dream right quick as I also understand that $20,000 will buy a lot of worms and cold beer. :nod:

Give me a break, Jo. We've had an era of ignoring or cutting regulations on business like we've not seen in generations. And look where we are: in a terrible financial hole. :roll:

 

[skyline]

Yep. I see where the Prime Minister in Great Britain has suggested that tax cuts should be part of the world wide solution to the economic mess. The man is correct. If you want someone to spend more money, start taking less of their money away from them.

I don't think tax cuts alone will do it. This has got to be coupled with relaxed regulation on businesses wanting to expand or enter into new ventures. We have reached a point of diminishing returns when it comes to regulations and permitting. This has created a new government institution whose sole purpose apparantly is to suck the blood from the very people that pay for their existance. It is ridiculus to have to spend - in my case - $20,000 on environmental impact studies, silt screening, permits, etc. etc before I even break ground. On a 30 year note, this equates to around $152,000 and this is for nothing! I'm only a minnow as my idea would only employ around six people. It would generate good taxes in the form of sales tax, income tax and would provide a decent living for those who I worked there. However, I'm not going to pay $20,000 for someone to tell me water will run downhill or a "tax" to let me pursue a dream. I can change my dream right quick as I also understand that $20,000 will buy a lot of worms and cold beer. :nod:

I agree. Tax cuts alone aren't going to do it. But raising taxes is definitely not going to encourage anyone to participate more in the economy. And regarding your comments on regulations and permitting... I challenge anyone to go get a Section 404 permit from the USACE, defend yourself in a EEO hearing before a disgruntled employee that was fired for fraud, get a set of development plans approved by an overreaching municipality, try to keep up with payroll laws/discrimination cases to keep yourself out of trouble, and come out the other side thinking that we are underregulated in this country.

 

[1982vett]

A good many people don't need to be regulated, as for the rest, most of the regulations are regulated by folks that need regulating themselves. :???:

 

[Jogeephus]

Give me a break, Jo. We've had an era of ignoring or cutting regulations on business like we've not seen in generations. And look where we are: in a terrible financial hole.

Frankie, I would venture to guess that you have never tried to build something or do any type of construction work or have employees that you need to comply with OSHA standards - or maybe you have been lucky and have never met the folks at OSHA, EPA or EPD or seen their regulations as they pertain to you and your business. I don't know. But what I do know is that they are killing us with their over-regulation and they are running the industry out of our country. I know I'll never convince you of this so I challenge you to pick up a regulation manual and see what it says.

If you are referring to the financial mess we are in because they laxed up on lending regulations, I agree with you. This was an ignorant attempt by liberals who think each person has a constitutional right to own a home. The whole debacle is also merely a symptom of the greater problem and both parties are to blame for this and we are to blame as well for allowing them to have such power over us. But so many people just don't get it cause they - like you - think this doesn't affect them and do not care to see the truth. Of course, if you are drawing a government paycheck I can understand your sentiments.

Here are just a couple you can start with:

When is the last time you replaced your extension cord? If yours is over 3 years old you will be fined.
When the last time you replaced your fire extinguisher? Its got to be replaced every 3 years or so or you will be fined. Did you date it with a permament marker when you bought it and kept the receipt to for validation purposes? If not, you will be fined.
Did you pay the GHIS the few thousand dollars permitting fee so you can be sure their are no indian artifacts or treasures on your land and get the OK from all the indian tribes in your area. There is a list of 50 here that you must get the signatures on - or you will be fined.
Did you pay the $1000 per acre environmental assessment fee before you began doing work? If not you will be fined.
I can go on and on but like you say, they have laxed up on regulations.

 

[Frankie]

Jo, would you like to talk about the coal miners who have died the last few years in unsafe mines? Mines that were NOT inspected as they should have been? Or mining companies that were slapped on the wrist for having unsafe mines and figured they were better off paying the fines instead of fixing the problems?

Do you want to talk about the babies who died or were made sick by the toxic, lead based paint on toys allowed into this country? Toys that weren't inspected because the Consumer Product Safety agency was down to only one employee to inspect them?

I'm in the middle of an oil patch. Some of my family has worked for oil companies of various sizes all my life. I believe if not for the EPA, this country wouldn't be fit to live in. I've had cousins badly hurt on old oil field equipment that should not have been in service. But it was, they paid well, and 20 year olds think they're indestructable.

I'm pretty liberal and I think what you do on your own piece of land is your business.....unless it floats downstream and winds up in my cattle's water or my own water well. That's why we need environmental impact studies.

No, you won't convice me that we need fewer regulations. What we need is honest, across the board, enforcement of the regulations that are out there. That hasn't happened. If an industry is not willing to meet safety standards established by the industry and government, IMO, they shouldn't be in business. People shouldn't die because big business wants to make a few more bucks.

 

[Onthebit]

From what I understand, the US gov't's 700billion handout went to the CEO's of Banking institutions while they laid off the front line workers. You can't convince me that a 25-30$ hr auto assembly worker should take a pay cut whilst the cost of food and transportion double! I was mad this year when my union got us a 1$ hr raise in pay while we lost double time saturdays....I think my travel costs to get to work are almost 3X what it was 2 yrs ago.......So if you look at the numbers I think we calculated that I am losing 5-7$ per hour since 2 yrs ago! I make a little over 30 bucks an hour but I am still living paycheck to paycheck. Good thing we decided we wanted self sufficiency!

I agree with Jo that OSHA has gone overboard but, like my lawyer said once...it is the spirit of the law not the letter! In Canada, unless you have a bad relationship with them, they will overlook the little things.

 

[1982vett]

From what I understand, the US gov't's 700billion handout went to the CEO's of Banking institutions while they laid off the front line workers. You can't convince me that a 25-30$ hr auto assembly worker should take a pay cut whilst the cost of food and transportion double! I was mad this year when my union got us a 1$ hr raise in pay while we lost double time saturdays....I think my travel costs to get to work are almost 3X what it was 2 yrs ago.......So if you look at the numbers I think we calculated that I am losing 5-7$ per hour since 2 yrs ago! I make a little over 30 bucks an hour but I am still living paycheck to paycheck. Good thing we decided we wanted self sufficiency!

I agree with Jo that OSHA has gone overboard but, like my lawyer said once...it is the spirit of the law not the letter! In Canada, unless you have a bad relationship with them, they will overlook the little things.

So you are calculating that had you not gotten a dollar an hour raise you would be working more hours at a higher rate? Seems to me if automobiles didn't cost so damn much the manufactures might be able to sell more of them.

 

[hillsdown]

quote]
Seems to me if automobiles didn't cost so be nice much the manufactures might be able to sell more of them.

:nod: I agree . Also if they would make fuel efficient vehicles instead of gas guzzlers like the Hummer ,which by the way in booming Alberta you see oodles of, they would be able to compete and ,make money.

Who was it that said "the huge oils companies should bale out the auto industry." ;-)