"SINGING" FROM THE SAME BEEF PAGE!

[docgraybull]

but it would still be 9998.438% How about that?!

WOW, nine thousand, nine hundred, ninety eight point four three eight percent! The University that I attended only taught me about percentages up to 100%. Boy would I love to learn about these breeding percentages that go up into the 9 thousands! Especially in only 5 generations. Could you elaborate please?

 

[Ryder]

.
8 - HETEROSIS - A phenomenon resulting from hybridization (cross breeding - see above) in which the resulting offspring display more desirable characteristics than the parents, as exemplified by, case in point, authentic EPD's (Expected Progeny Differences) utilized in the Beef Industry and frequently referred to as "Hybrid Vigor, Strength or Vitality.

I welcome your comments. DOC HARRIS [/b]

Heterosis can be achieved by the crossing of two inbred lines within a breed. Does not necessarily have to be different breeds.

 

[icandoit]

Well, we certinly aren't on the page anymore..... Especially for beginners like me. :shock:

Dick

 

[DOC HARRIS]

but it would still be 9998.438% How about that?!

WOW, nine thousand, nine hundred, ninety eight point four three eight percent! The University that I attended only taught me about percentages up to 100%. Boy would I love to learn about these breeding percentages that go up into the 9 thousands! Especially in only 5 generations. Could you elaborate please?

- - - -Sure! Glad to do so. I screwed up! BIG TIME! Should have been "99.98438%. Pretty impressive percentages- - - -or don't you think so,. . . . .docgraybull?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I haven't read the boards in a while, but I clicked on this thread and quickly realized that, DOC HARRIS, although you are probably a knowledgeable (you'll note the proper spelling of knowledgeable) cattleman, but you are a pain in the ass. I have not, and will not, make a habit of picking contributor's posts apart. However, with the arrogant tone of your post here, and in the followup posts, you give the impression that you are above reproach, and therefore I'm sure that you can tolerate a bit of constructive criticism. After all, you did welcome comments. ;-)

I, along with Caustic Burno,

When did you and Caustic Burno get in cahoots? Is CB aware of this alliance? It's interesting to me that he hasn't commented much on this thread. Maybe you two have shared Private Messages that we are unaware of, however your posting styles seem much too different for me to believe that you two have been collaborating to straighten out SEMANTICS for all of us run-of-the-mill cattlemen on these boards. But stranger things have happened?! :roll: .

have been perusing this subject of "Which is Best" and Why for several weeks, and I believe we need to start "Singing From The Same Page" and begin to understand the same notes and words of the song.

GLOSSARY:

1 - PUREBRED - Cattle (or any animal species) which are considered PURE or straight in their Genetic background for six (6) generations or, preferably, more.
2 - PEDIGREE - A recorded known line of descent - a list of ancestors.
3 - REGISTERED - Animals (Cattle) which are Purebred

Could also be "fullblood" or "percentage" depending on the breed/association policies ("rules" to us common folk).

(see above) and whose pedigrees (see above) are recorded in an official Breed Registry Book ( and usually administered by a Breed Association).
4- REGISTERED BREEDER - A cattle-raiser who breeds and raises for profit (hopefully!) cattle of a specific and particular Breed and whose seedstock, male and female, are Purebred animals - WITHIN THAT BREED!
5- CROSS-BRED - Animals who

As much as we love them, cattle are not humans, so this "who" should be "which".

are the result of breeding a PUREBRED male or female of one breed to a PUREBRED member of the opposite sex, male or female, of another breed.

I think that most cattleman on these boards would consider a "CROSS-BRED" (by the way, the hyphen is not necessary) cow/bull/steer, any cow/bull/steer that is not fullblood, purebred, and/or registered. While I agree that the offspring of a PUREBRED cow and PUREBRED bull, of different breeds, is indeed crossbred, I would also contend that any bovine of mixed [including hybridized(see below)] or indeterminant ancestry is "crossbred".

6 - BEEF BREED - A BREED of cattle whose primary purpose or reason for existence is to produce MEAT for human consumption.
7 - MILK BREED - A BREED of cattle whose primary purpose for reason for existence is to produce MILK products for human consumption.

Did you mean "or reason for existence"?

8 - HETEROSIS - A phenomenon resulting from hybridization (cross breeding - see above)

The "cross breeding" that you reference parenthetically is, in fact, not apparent, "above" to be referenced. Despite the fact that I "saw above", I could not locate another reference to "cross breeding". I did find"CROSS-BRED" above. Interestingly, didn't you argue the point to Preston that, in your opinion, crossbreeding and cross-bred are not the same, i.e. "they're two different definitions".

in which the resulting offspring display more desirable characteristics than the parents, as exemplified by, case in point, authentic EPD's (Expected Progeny Differences) utilized in the Beef Industry and frequently referred to as "Hybrid Vigor, Strength or Vitality.

As with many discussions or debates, if you will, "Semantics" rears its head and becomes a problem of misunderstanding terminology. The current prevailing opinion of most knowledgable

You'll now remember the comment on the proper spelling of knowledgeable.

and experienced beef breeders and scholars is that CROSSBREEDING, using two or more PURE or HYBRIDIZED BREEDS (important component here),

You now contradict yourself (Glossary topic #5), and thereby help make one of my previous points. Thanks.

over time, results in a more desirable and profitable Beef Product for the producer.

I consider several of the contributors to the Beef Board correct in their assessments and conclusions of "Which is Best", however it depends entirely upon which characteristics one is considering - calving ease, weaning weight, mothering abilitie(s), yearling weight, marbling, rib-eye area, % of retail product, keeping the offspring for herd replacements, or terminal. After all when it is ALL said and done - - -"IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER"!

I welcome your comments. DOC HARRIS [/b]

Thanks. In another, later post, you threatened us with a textbook. If that is in your plans, please plan to hire an exceptional editor.

Regarding the "Fullblood vs. Purebred" issue: the term "fullblood" is not obsolete. The terms are not interchangeable. 2centsworth and Wewild have cleared this up. Let it go. You were wrong and Frankie was right. Admit it.

I'm not sure exactly when in history it was thought that "blood was the medium of heredity" when it came to plants, but I'm sure that you can reference that for us.

I've never heard of anything but a certain breed of horse referred to as Thoroughbred. There may be a few people/geographical areas around the country that use this term in reference to cattle, but it is not "commonplace". Thoroughbred is certainly not used to refer to cattle....how did you refer to it.....oh yes....."BIGTIME".

Once again, for the most part, I generally have not, and will not critically review posts, but thank you to DOC HARRIS for welcoming comments.

docgraybull- - -There is a philisophical phrase which states "Don't practice Condemnation prior to Investigation" It is obvious to me from reading this post that you have done extensive Investigation (note the capitalization) prior to your condemnation of my stated thoughts. I find it provocative, in reading your profile, that you have avoided informing any interested observers of your E-mail address, where you reside, your website, your occupation, or your interests- - - other than criticism ( I did spell 'criticism' correctly, did I not?) :lol: I shall attempt to respond, briefly, to your constructive criticisms as they occur in this post. I empathize (note the differentiation here between "empathy" and "sympathy") with your acute, severe gluteal distress symptoms, as I have encountered several personalities in the past who have affected me in the same manner as, apparently, I impress you.

1- I have never met, talked to or communicated with Caustic Burno.

2- Correct

3- Correct

4- Correct - and I agree

5- Yes, I did

6- You're right again.

7- Yes, I did

8- Yes, I do remember. Thank you for helping me to elevate my level of intelligence. It is said that one should learn and use a new word every day. 8)

9- You're welcome

10- Not a threat - however if I ever do publish again, I will seek your valuable assistance as Contributing Editor.

11- Regarding the "Fullblood vs. Purebred" issue - I did NOT say it was obsolete. I said it was the obsolete notion that blood was the medium of heredity. Regarding your admonition that I was wrong and that I admit it - Okay, I will ;-)

12- No, I can't :shock:

13- I didn't say it was "common place". Reference a previous post pertaining to "Colloquialisms" (Did I spell that word correctly?)

- - - -and, finally- - -

14- You're welcome again, docgraybull!

One addendum - my intent with this subject was not to convey an arrogant tone and I deplore your presumption that it was. Obviously, with your thinly-veiled sarcasm in your answer to my post, I am not above reproach! Of course, you always have the option of ignoring and refusing to peruse any post of DOC HARRIS in the future. And I hope you have a good day! :heart:

 

[Moderator]

This discussion is getting ugly. I'm going to lock this topic.