simmental calves

[Dean the hobby farmer]

I wondering how big would calves be from a simmental bull ,his first breeding season .Being used on limo/shorthorn cows,would a blonde aquitaine calves be any smaller .Thanks Dean

 

[UG]

There are Simmental bulls that will sire smaller calves that will come easily and there are Simmental bulls that will sire calves the size of a small car (o.k., I'm exagerating a little).

The Simmental association has computer generated scores (called expected progeny data or E.P.D.'s) for things like calving ease, birth weight, etc. These are a good indicators, though not guaranteed. Bulls that are registered with the American Simmental Assn. will have EPDs.

Not real familiar with Blondes, though I know 30 years ago they had a little bit of a reputation for siring big calves (then again so did Simmentals, Maines, etc. back then).

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

First, whether it's his first breeding season or last, his genetics will be the same. The reason most breeders like to use a young bull on their heifers, is because he won't be too heavy on their backs when he mounts them - not because his calves will be smaller.
Any breed bull can have small or large calves. There are more differences between bulls WITHIN a breed, than bulls BETWEEN breeds. In other words, any breed COULD have a bull to use on your heifers.
Also, whether the heifers can easily calve, depends A LOT on how well they are grown out and their genetics.

 

[Brandonm2]

Still you have to admit that while most of us would be VERY upset if the neighbor's little ANgus bull got into the heifer field; many of us would be grabbing the 30-0-06 if the Neighbor's 3000 lb, big headed, course shouldered, heavy muscled 80s style Fleckvieh bull got in there.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Again, I repeat, there are as much differences WITHIN a breed as there is ACROSS the breeds. Currently, modern breeding, you can have a "killer calving" ANGUS bull just as easily as have a "heifer calving" ANGUS bull. Likewise, Fleckvieh is considered a registered SIMMENTAL, and you can have either type within the Fleckvieh and also within the American made Simmentals.
Bulls have to be analyzed as an individual. Most of my purebred Simmental bulls go to commercial or British herds and are used on heifers and cows. I have NEVER had a complaint about calving ease. That's a pretty bold statement, but true - including bulls that have topped the Bull Test, needing growth traits to accomplish that honor.

 

[dun]

Again, I repeat, there are as much differences WITHIN a breed as there is ACROSS the breeds. Currently, modern breeding, you can have a "killer calving" ANGUS bull just as easily as have a "heifer calving" ANGUS bull. Likewise, Fleckvieh is considered a registered SIMMENTAL, and you can have either type within the Fleckvieh and also within the American made Simmentals.
Bulls have to be analyzed as an individual. Most of my purebred Simmental bulls go to commercial or British herds and are used on heifers and cows. I have NEVER had a complaint about calving ease. That's a pretty bold statement, but true - including bulls that have topped the Bull Test, needing growth traits to accomplish that honor.

We used a Felcvieh bull on one cow last year to evaluate his calving ease potential. The cow is one that can pass a Buick sideways. She had no problems with an 87# bull calf so we used him on a half dozen other cows this year.
A local dairyman used a registered nlk Angus bull two years ago and had to pull almost all of the calves out of mature Holsteins. Calves were big but no bigger then then the Holstein calves they had in the past, I think it had as much to do with shape as physical size. He's back to using a Holstein on his cows and a Jersey on his heifers.

dun

 

[Dean the hobby farmer]

That all for the great replies will let you know how calving season goes with my simmental bull.Thanks Dean 8)

 

[Brandonm2]

Again, I repeat, there are as much differences WITHIN a breed as there is ACROSS the breeds. Currently, modern breeding, you can have a "killer calving" ANGUS bull just as easily as have a "heifer calving" ANGUS bull. Likewise, Fleckvieh is considered a registered SIMMENTAL, and you can have either type within the Fleckvieh and also within the American made Simmentals.
Bulls have to be analyzed as an individual. Most of my purebred Simmental bulls go to commercial or British herds and are used on heifers and cows. I have NEVER had a complaint about calving ease. That's a pretty bold statement, but true - including bulls that have topped the Bull Test, needing growth traits to accomplish that honor.

I never claimed ALL Simmentals or ALL Fleckviehs for that matter were cow killers. I actually LIKE modern Simmentals but there were certainly bulls 20 years ago that HAD problems in the calving ease area, which is why I did describe the kind of bull that would cause problems (I know I pulled a few of their calves). Obviously, a modern producer looks at the birth weight EPDs and the size and shape of the head of bull in whatever breed he is evaluating.

 

[Dana Kopp]

I really believe that calf shape is a factor in calving problems as well. Also, don't forget that the pelvic measurements of the cow are a factor, too. We have some 900-1000lb soaking wet cows that will shoot a 90+ calf out in minutes and a couple much larger cows that really seem to have to work on 90lb calves. Calf positioning, size of head and front legs and shoulders makes a huge difference, I had to find out the hard way that when a calf has his head even the tiniest bit crooked and his legs not stretched out all the way he is just that much harder to help. Also we have found that the activity of the calf seems to help them get born faster. All the calves out of one of our bulls were attempting to get up when they were only just over half out! Their heads were shaking and flopping around, legs kicking and waving, they were out fast and up quick - pretty nice when it is chilly out.
Best of luck with your Simme. calves, I hope they are WAY different than the couple we have had and the ones I have helped the neighbor with. Needless to say I am not a big fan, but each to his own and the neighbor couldn't be prouder of his herd.

 

[purecountry]

I would have to agree on the shape and structure theories. We've had trouble with 80lb. Angus calves b/c of blocky heads, and we've had 80lb Gelbvieh calves get hip-locked to the point where we had to roll the cow on her back to pop the bugger out.

And Jeanne, I agree 100% that there is more variance within breeds than between. I also believe it is a damn shame that our Breed Associations don't regulate that variance somehow. When a breeder is throwing out crap that hurts the breed, their papers should be pulled on that animal. Like Angus bulls consistently throwing 120lb calves causing C-sections and grief. Things that are out of the normal extremes for a breeds traits.
When you can get every shape, size, and color in one breed, somethin's wrong. It wasn't meant to be like that.