Simbrah Sires calves naturally at 19 years old
- Thread starter Bronco
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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HMMMM - seems like this has something to do with a junior showing a Simbrah that the pedigree is in question??
If the sire was never reported dead, and ASA has no other knowledge, they CANNOT refuse to register the calves. The owners can't all of a sudden claim they were AI sired calves, because the bull would have had to pass DNA tests BEFORE you use his semen.
Pretty tricky - 19 years old huh? Possible ----- :shock:
If the sire was never reported dead, and ASA has no other knowledge, they CANNOT refuse to register the calves. The owners can't all of a sudden claim they were AI sired calves, because the bull would have had to pass DNA tests BEFORE you use his semen.
Pretty tricky - 19 years old huh? Possible ----- :shock:
Kent
Well-known member
I would say it's possible with the Zebu blood in the Simbrah. Certainly not something that happens very often, because why would you keep a bull that long in the first place, and how could his back legs and hips last that long? Simbrahs are usually big, too. But I had a 21 year-old Polled Hereford cow that had her 21st calf (had one set of twins in her life) and raised it to 500 lbs that year, so I guess it's possible.
JDI
Well-known member
Jeanne,
I raise Simbrah. I went to the ASA data page & did a planned mating. I only used my cows that were 5/8 X 3/8 purebred Simbrah X ASA#1030693. ALL the matings show 1/2 SM X 1/4 MX X 1/4 BR. This don't add up in my books. This bull is reg. purebred & was 19yrs. 38 days old when the last calf was conveived.
I raise Simbrah. I went to the ASA data page & did a planned mating. I only used my cows that were 5/8 X 3/8 purebred Simbrah X ASA#1030693. ALL the matings show 1/2 SM X 1/4 MX X 1/4 BR. This don't add up in my books. This bull is reg. purebred & was 19yrs. 38 days old when the last calf was conveived.
"If the sire was never reported dead, and ASA has no other knowledge, they CANNOT refuse to register the calves. The owners can't all of a sudden claim they were AI sired calves, because the bull would have had to pass DNA tests BEFORE you use his semen. Pretty tricky - 19 years old huh? Possible ----- "
They were originally registered as having an AI sire until the DNA was going to be tested. Then they found a bull that hasn't registered a calf in the last ten years and he magically sires two registered calves. Another twist, the ranch now owes all the registered calfs for this 21 year old bull. Spend some money to cover their tracks.
They were originally registered as having an AI sire until the DNA was going to be tested. Then they found a bull that hasn't registered a calf in the last ten years and he magically sires two registered calves. Another twist, the ranch now owes all the registered calfs for this 21 year old bull. Spend some money to cover their tracks.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Not sure what you are getting at.
I looked up the ASA # - it shows he is a PB SI Bull - I'm ASSUMING the SI means Simbrah (I have never bred any Simbrahs). born in l985
So, I would ASSUME if you planned mating bred a PB SI to a PB SI cow - your offspring would be PB SI.
As far as the bull siring calves & registering them - ASA would have no choice but to register the offspring if someone requested registration papers IF NOONE HAS REPORTED THE BULL AS DECEASED. I understand that it seems unlikely that someone kept a bull around for 19 years.
I looked up the ASA # - it shows he is a PB SI Bull - I'm ASSUMING the SI means Simbrah (I have never bred any Simbrahs). born in l985
So, I would ASSUME if you planned mating bred a PB SI to a PB SI cow - your offspring would be PB SI.
As far as the bull siring calves & registering them - ASA would have no choice but to register the offspring if someone requested registration papers IF NOONE HAS REPORTED THE BULL AS DECEASED. I understand that it seems unlikely that someone kept a bull around for 19 years.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
All this boils down to is that you & probably a lot of others - believe this breeder cheated. There is nothing you can do about it unless you can prove the bull was not alive 2 years ago. This is just a case of reputation. Sounds like theirs is getting ruined.Bronco":nmmdm93r said:
But as far as the heifers getting registered - ASA did what they would have to do. All you can do is never purchase any animals bred by that farm. Cheaters eventually get caught or get such a bad reputation they go out of business.
jaydill
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Just so y'all know. Whether it was just the breeder, the breeder and the exhibitor, or the breeder, exhibitor, and the exhibitor's "coach," I know the exhibitor personally and the exhibitor was aware of the calf's true breed before it even hit the show ring.
TheBullLady
Well-known member
Absolutely Jaydill.. and if the bull was never reported dead, that means he would be available to pull hair on to test his DNA, right? Or.. if everything on the farm is out of the "wonder bull", they could also test the herd mates.
It's not a big mystery.. they are cheating and trying to cover their A$$es. It's amazing to me that ASA hasn't revoked the papers permenently. It's a travesty.
It's not a big mystery.. they are cheating and trying to cover their A$$es. It's amazing to me that ASA hasn't revoked the papers permenently. It's a travesty.
What does it really matter if a Simmental goes to a show that is not ALL Simmental (and he probably is not the FIRST)??? It probably is annoying if you get beat by the crossbred calf; but that is only more motivation to work harder next time.
BC
Well-known member
Brandonm2":3tiy10wn said:
The heifer in question is supposed to be a Simbrah. She exhibits little breed character. She shows almost no Brahman influence even though Simbrah's are supposed to be 3/8 Brahman.
jaydill
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Do you know anything of the Simbrah breed? If you put an Angus up to a Longhorn, will the Angus win? The calf winning these shows is not crossbred. She is a Simmental. You can be skeptical all you want. You're not from Texas and you're not in the show circuit so you wouldn't know. The showman of the Simmental calf that was run as a Simbrah is in my county. I also know her personally. She won our Texas State Fair with the heifer, our County Show, Fort Worth, and now Houston. And many jackpot shows along the way. How can you make such a claim like that with no knowledge or information to back it up?Brandonm2":2m7aaqie said:
I don't know a darned thing about the Simbrah show circuit other than what little I read in my complementary "Simtalk" magazine; but I think it is sour grapes to come on a message board and cry about getting beat, whether we are talking about a football game, a basketball game, a marbles match, or some silly cow show. If you can't handle the losing then don't compete. Competition means accepting the risk that failure could happen while working hard for a victory that may never materialize. IF you can prove your allegations, make them to the appropriate authorities.....if you can't prove it to their satisfaction let it go. The better calf won...big deal.
TheBullLady
Well-known member
I disagree Brandon.. it doesn't have anything to do with getting beat, it has to do with competing on an even playing field. Are you suggesting if you can cheat and win, it's okay?
The analogy posted earlier is a good one.. an Angus in a Longhorn class. Simbrah's are supposed to show breed characteristics. If you don't want ear and extra skin, breed a Continental or British calf.
The analogy posted earlier is a good one.. an Angus in a Longhorn class. Simbrah's are supposed to show breed characteristics. If you don't want ear and extra skin, breed a Continental or British calf.
