Sick world we live in!

[RDFF]

That felt like an argument.

Let me ask how you would reply to someone who asked if all the pre-Columbus Indians in America are going to hell because they did not accept Jesus?

Indians settled in the Americans 12,000 years ago. Abraham died about 4,000 years ago. Adam was about 7,000 years ago.

We have an impasse in the discussion because of the basis upon which your question is posed. You presume, based on the authority of man, that the Indians are older on this earth than Adam, the first man. I presume, based on the Word of God, that Adam was the FIRST man (and Eve the FIRST woman), created by God on the 6th day of creation, and these two, the first parents of the whole human race (including native Americans), were the final act of His creation.

Gen. 1-3 At creation, Adam and Eve knew God, and they were created to live forever in sinless, perfect harmony with Him. They rejected Him when they fell into sin, and just as God their creator had warned, on that day, they literally "died" eternally (with their own mortal death to soon follow because of this sin as well), because they disobeyed and rejected Him and His role of authority over them. They immediately KNEW their lost condition, and tried to hide it from Him. He came to them, for they were always, as are we, completely visible to Him... and He forced them to examine their lost condition in relationship to Him now.... "Adam, where are you?" They KNEW their nakedness before Him... they KNEW He could see their naked sins, but they wanted to and TRIED to deny it... There was no hiding it, there was no "covering it" from Him, try as they might. They now felt shame and guilt and condemnation for their sinfulness..... just as we do today......... and just as we do today, they tried to conceal it..., they tried to deny it..., they tried to blame it on everybody but themself. The woman YOU gave to be with me Lord, SHE gave me of the tree and I ate. The SERPENT... it was his fault...

No, our sins and our sinfulness are our own, and we, each of us, are condemned by our own faults. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." See 1 John 1.

Immediately upon confronting Adam and Eve because of their disobedience, God in His mercy promised them a way out of their lost condition... HE made a way for them, and it had absolutely nothing at all to do with any ability or power or "goodness" that lay within them. They were already "DEAD", completely incapable of doing anything to help in their needed salvation. But God reached out them in His mercy. Right there in that very conversation with Adam and Eve, God promised them the eternal Savior, and condemned Satan to lose the battle for the souls of God's children. Gen. 3:15 "And I will put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman, and between your seed (the followers/children of Satan) and her Seed (Jesus, the promised Messiah), He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel."

So then, from that point on (the point of falling into sin and the promise of salvation through Christ), ALL MANKIND had access to the saving truth. ALL MANKIND from that moment on was charged with teaching that pure saving gospel message of salvation through Christ on to their own lost and dead in their sins next generation (and therein lies our shame... all children conceived and born of men from the point that Adam and Eve fell into sin onward would be born sinful, and sinners) so that THEY then know that they have forgiveness and are saved peoples through that promised Savior. ALL MANKIND, free and without cost or effort on their part, had been given salvation then, and restoration of their relationship and eternal life in heaven with God the Father and the Son, forever. The Word (Christ) was there then, right there in the Garden of Eden, the Word (Christ) was there from the beginning (see John 1:1-6), and He (The Word, Christ) is here now, and forever. Thanks be to God!

So, was the gospel MADE AVAILABLE by God to all mankind, including to the pre-Columbus Indians in America? It certainly was. The following of vain manmade theologies is not by the doing of God's hand, it was and is always by the foolishness and sinfulness of man, rejecting the saving gospel of Christ. We place the "wisdom" of MAN'S word as a higher authority than God's Word, and we follow corrupted delusional "truths of man" instead (we "delude ourselves into thinking that it is the truth). We "change the incorruptible God, ... into an image made like to corruptible man."

Romans 1:17-23
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Are all the pre-Columbus Indians that settled in America going to hell because they did not accept Jesus? (how you worded your question). I'll let God answer that for you in His own Word.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 John 2: 23-25
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Anyone who doesn't have faith in the saving work of the Savior as their ONLY hope of salvation (not of works in themself), then yes, that individual is/will be lost eternally. Therefore, if you love your fellow man, including the Native Americans, and the Muslim, and the Buddhist, and the Jew, (and ALL those caught up in the delusion of sin), then follow God's command to reach out to them in love for their soul which Christ our Savior died for (NOT in love and tolerance of their sin), and share this gospel message of salvation through Jesus Christ. Through Jesus, you are no longer condemned. Repent of your sin, go your way forgiven, and sin no more. John 8:11

 

[Silver]

Anyone who doesn't have faith in the saving work of the Savior as their ONLY hope of salvation (not of works in themself), then yes, that individual is/will be lost eternally.

I plan on living my life by the Golden Rule. If it turns out that there is a judgement day and I get declined because of the above quote, then I didn't want what was being offered anyway.

 

[RDFF]

I plan on living my life by the Golden Rule. If it turns out that there is a judgement day and I get declined because of the above quote, then I didn't want what was being offered anyway.

Wow, what an incredibly bold self righteous boast.

Matt. 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Did you ever ask yourself, where did you get your "golden rule" in which you place your hope from? How "good" do you have to be in order to avoid God's judgement? How many sins does it take to condemn you before Him eternally? Remember that not only is God a loving and kind and forgiving God, he is also a truthful and JUST God. He tells us that sin, any sin, condemns completely, and rejection of His saving grace to you is perhaps the greatest sin of all. So then, how many "good deeds" performed according to the "golden rule" are required to make up for all of your sins? How will you ever know if you are "good enough"?

I know with certainty that I am NOT good enough, no matter how hard I might try to live by the "golden rule"... in fact, I know that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags", Isaiah 64:6 I know that we ALL are condemned, without the entirely free redeeming work of Christ. 6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him (Christ) the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6

Eph. 2:1-10 1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The day of reckoning is fast approaching. Hebrews 9:27-28 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

May God grant you grace to believe.

 

[Little Joe]

I till have family in Arkansas, and of course you and others are there as part of the CT family.
I have a niece and her husband outside of Beebe just now getting into cows on a small venture (2-4 steers) and another niece/husband near Searcy that bought 80 acres last year and are working on the fences now to be able to stock it. I made lots of trips to Ark when my brother was still living near Little Rock, till he passed away in 2017.

It's just joking around and Texas has sure borne it's brunt of jocularity over the years.

I'm about 25 miles from Searcy and about 35 from Beebe.

 

[Silver]

Wow, what an incredibly bold self righteous boast.

No it's not. Just the facts. I'll be a good person because it's the right thing to do. Not out of fear or greed.

 

[Little Joe]

I'd hate to know that whether or not I got to heaven depends on my works, no matter how good I strive to be there's always some sin in me.

Romans 7:15-20
For what I am doing I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know in me nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good I will to do I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Silver, Who knows if you wrote those words for a time such as this? ''My brethern. (James. Desciple to the Jews) if any among you strays from
the truth and one turns him back , let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will
cover a multitude of sins''. The first part of that is paraphrased from Esther , The 2nd from James 5:19.20
I have James 19, 20 flagged as 'My Salvation Message' Assuming your words were without rancor I would ask you to read Esther and
James or your choice of any 2 Books of the Word at your earliest opportunity. If you are so inclined you can get back to us about this
at a later time. God richly bless your works of good will. LVR

 

[CVAR]

I think we can all live and let live to a large degree and some can dismiss what goes on in Hollywood with the Bruce Jenner types as no big deal......but I just wonder how some of you guys would feel if your best friend suddenly told you he was going to become a woman and indeed did just that.

Or worse yet, I wonder what some of you guys would do if your son or daughter came home and said they wanted to become the opposite sex. I'm a republican and more manly than most other men I meet but I also know our individuality doesn't stop with our fingerprint. We're all different in so many ways - some of these differences are beautiful and some not (like carrying the genetic propensity to have a certain cancer) as people, we're all afflicted with so many things, is it that crazy to think some could have a hormonal imbalance or something else that gives them an inner drive to be something they're not on the outside (pretty shallow thinking). I'm not a fan of Bruce Jenner and I sometimes feel he relishes in the attention he's received over this whole
transgender thing but I do know there are a number of children that battle with this (causing severe depression and suicide) I think as children we all experienced boys that were very feminine in nature (who were regularly teased and picked on, sometimes even by myself as much as it hurts me now to think/admit that) but as children we don't quite understand the same as we do when we're adults (that's why good role models are imperative) Do you think they chose to be like that? Foolish and ignorant beyond words if you do. Jenner isn't running for gov to be malicious to anyone so why spread such hate, hostility and dissension (it's called an election - you get to choose) Let this person do him and you do you. In the mean time, hopefully no one addresses one of your kids by "the fat girl" or "the stupid one" or "it" or a ome other title that will send them home with more hurt that a thousand lashes could ever cause.
Along with trying to be the "macho" man role model you're all talking about in this thread, hopefully you can also teach your kids that we're all different and we should love and support people whose hearts are in the right place especially when it comes to being good to others. If you want to hate, hate on someone that is being malicious to other humans. And for God's sake, please don't pass your shallow view of what the world really is on to the younger generation.
lastly, I really hope some of you "men" on here hate on me now so I can give you my address and we can have an in-person manly discussion about things. (I'm still far from perfect myself

 

[Little Joe]

Or worse yet, I wonder what some of you guys would do if your son or daughter came home and said they wanted to become the opposite sex. I'm a republican and more manly than most other men I meet but I also know our individuality doesn't stop with our fingerprint. We're all different in so many ways - some of these differences are beautiful and some not (like carrying the genetic propensity to have a certain cancer) as people, we're all afflicted with so many things, is it that crazy to think some could have a hormonal imbalance or something else that gives them an inner drive to be something they're not on the outside (pretty shallow thinking). I'm not a fan of Bruce Jenner and I sometimes feel he relishes in the attention he's received over this whole
transgender thing but I do know there are a number of children that battle with this (causing severe depression and suicide) I think as children we all experienced boys that were very feminine in nature (who were regularly teased and picked on, sometimes even by myself as much as it hurts me now to think/admit that) but as children we don't quite understand the same as we do when we're adults (that's why good role models are imperative) Do you think they chose to be like that? Foolish and ignorant beyond words if you do. Jenner isn't running for gov to be malicious to anyone so why spread such hate, hostility and dissension (it's called an election - you get to choose) Let this person do him and you do you. In the mean time, hopefully no one addresses one of your kids by "the fat girl" or "the stupid one" or "it" or a ome other title that will send them home with more hurt that a thousand lashes could ever cause.
Along with trying to be the "macho" man role model you're all talking about in this thread, hopefully you can also teach your kids that we're all different and we should love and support people whose hearts are in the right place especially when it comes to being good to others. If you want to hate, hate on someone that is being malicious to other humans. And for God's sake, please don't pass your shallow view of what the world really is on to the younger generation.
lastly, I really hope some of you "men" on here hate on me now so I can give you my address and we can have an in-person manly discussion about things. (I'm still far from perfect myself

This is something I've pondered on before. If my son came home and told me he was homosexual or transgender or any of the other things like that, first of all I would be heart broke. I would still love him just the same but I would never just accept it as that's who he was. If he was young I'd get him some Christian counseling. I'd pray for him without ceasing, I'd call all my Christian family and friends and ask that they do the same. I'd be at the altar every Sunday praying that the Lord change his heart. I'd do the same for any other sinful lifestyle as well. I would also try to point him in the right direction through scripture. While I know we all sin daily, I believe there's a difference in choosing to live a lifestyle that is opposed to God compared to randomly sinning while trying not to sin. Both are sin, but how we respond to the sin is the difference. Choosing a lifestyle that you know is sinful is you just accepting the sin in your life and hoping grace covers it, whereas if you're asking for grace for sins that you're struggling to quit are 2 different things. And I'm not just talking homosexuality or transgender, I believe 2 people shacking up are choosing a lifestyle ( these are just a few of sinful lifestyles not trying to say they are the worst). Accepting these things are the equivalent of me finding out he is addicted to meth and me just saying "well that's just who he is".

I agree there are probably some kids who struggle with the idea that they're the wrong gender from an early age but there are many that fall into that thinking it's cool. I'm at a school daily and I've seen it over the years. We wouldn't just accept other destructive behaviours in our children no matter how early in life they started, so why should we just accept this. I'm not at all suggesting anyone mistreat them, I have a young man that rides my bus that identifies as a girl, I probably treat him even kinder than I do the others hoping he can see the light in me and want the same for his life.

 

[HDRider]

We have an impasse in the discussion because of the basis upon which your question is posed. You presume, based on the authority of man, that the Indians are older on this earth than Adam, the first man. I presume, based on the Word of God, that Adam was the FIRST man (and Eve the FIRST woman), created by God on the 6th day of creation, and these two, the first parents of the whole human race (including native Americans), were the final act of His creation.

I appreciate that.

You can reject the premise of the question, and that leads to the broader issue leveled against Christians and their rejection of science.

We see less and less people going to church, and coming to Christ. It may be the way things are supposed to be, but I hate to go down without a fight. I take being a warrior of Christ seriously.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

As of 2010, nearly a third of the world's population identified as Christian. But if demographic trends persist, Islam will close the gap by the middle of the 21st century.

www.pewforum.org

Islam is growing faster than any other religion

 

[D2Cat]

Or worse yet, I wonder what some of you guys would do if your son or daughter came home and said they wanted to become the opposite sex. I'm a republican and more manly than most other men I meet but I also know our individuality doesn't stop with our fingerprint. We're all different in so many ways - some of these differences are beautiful and some not (like carrying the genetic propensity to have a certain cancer) as people, we're all afflicted with so many things, is it that crazy to think some could have a hormonal imbalance or something else that gives them an inner drive to be something they're not on the outside (pretty shallow thinking). I'm not a fan of Bruce Jenner and I sometimes feel he relishes in the attention he's received over this whole
transgender thing but I do know there are a number of children that battle with this (causing severe depression and suicide) I think as children we all experienced boys that were very feminine in nature (who were regularly teased and picked on, sometimes even by myself as much as it hurts me now to think/admit that) but as children we don't quite understand the same as we do when we're adults (that's why good role models are imperative) Do you think they chose to be like that? Foolish and ignorant beyond words if you do. Jenner isn't running for gov to be malicious to anyone so why spread such hate, hostility and dissension (it's called an election - you get to choose) Let this person do him and you do you. In the mean time, hopefully no one addresses one of your kids by "the fat girl" or "the stupid one" or "it" or a ome other title that will send them home with more hurt that a thousand lashes could ever cause.
Along with trying to be the "macho" man role model you're all talking about in this thread, hopefully you can also teach your kids that we're all different and we should love and support people whose hearts are in the right place especially when it comes to being good to others. If you want to hate, hate on someone that is being malicious to other humans. And for God's sake, please don't pass your shallow view of what the world really is on to the younger generation.
lastly, I really hope some of you "men" on here hate on me now so I can give you my address and we can have an in-person manly discussion about things. (I'm still far from perfect myself

Your post indicates you disagree with bullying, yet in the last sentence you, "I really hope some of you "men" on here hate on me now so I can give you my address and we can have an in-person manly discussion about things. (I'm still far from perfect myself"

Isn't that your form of doing just what you admonish others to not do? You describe how manly you are, and then want a personal confrontation.....hypocritical isn't it?

You also mention, "And for God's sake, please don't pass your shallow view of what the world really is on to the younger generation." Interesting how you use the Lord's name, so perhaps you have a personal relationship with him, however if you study scriptures He does not condone the actions you describe!

There is the command to love, that refers to the person not the activity of the person.

 

[CVAR]

Yep - you quoted me right and NOPE it's NOT bullying. Rather, I'm calling out all the "men" and bullies that jump on this thread to ridicule a person that has issues with gender identity (a man that thinks he's a woman at that)...Pretty damn cowardly if you ask me. Now, you're trying to throw religion into it because I used the words "for God's sake" but I'm not interested in debating that (and yes, I have a very personal relationship with God that goes far beyond jumping on line and trying to impress others with quotes from the Bible)
And, you're exactly right which is why I clarified I'm still far from perfect myself but I stand right by my closing statement above even if it is hypocritical. And yes I do condone others stepping up to protect the weak - my method if I were doing it in person may not be the most gentle or God-like for you or someone else though and I'm happy to admit that imperfection.

 

[alacowman1]

Your post indicates you disagree with bullying, yet in the last sentence you, "I really hope some of you "men" on here hate on me now so I can give you my address and we can have an in-person manly discussion about things. (I'm still far from perfect myself"

Isn't that your form of doing just what you admonish others to not do? You describe how manly you are, and then want a personal confrontation.....hypocritical isn't it?

You also mention, "And for God's sake, please don't pass your shallow view of what the world really is on to the younger generation." Interesting how you use the Lord's name, so perhaps you have a personal relationship with him, however if you study scriptures He does not condone the actions you describe!

There is the command to love, that refers to the person not the activity of the person.

Yep - you quoted me right and NOPE it's NOT bullying. Rather, I'm calling out all the "men" and bullies that jump on this thread to ridicule a person that has issues with gender identity (a man that thinks he's a woman at that)...Pretty damn cowardly if you ask me. Now, you're trying to throw religion into it because I used the words "for God's sake" but I'm not interested in debating that (and yes, I have a very personal relationship with God that goes far beyond jumping on line and trying to impress others with quotes from the Bible)
And, you're exactly right which is why I clarified I'm still far from perfect myself but I stand right by my closing statement above even if it is hypocritical. And yes I do condone others stepping up to protect the weak - my method if I were doing it in person may not be the most gentle or God-like for you or someone else though and I'm happy to admit that imperfection.

I'm all for him doi him,when he figures out who him is..but he's vying for a position too do others..your calling out men means absolutely nothing..

 

[RDFF]

I appreciate that.

You can reject the premise of the question, and that leads to the broader issue leveled against Christians and their rejection of science.

We see less and less people going to church, and coming to Christ. It may be the way things are supposed to be, but I hate to go down without a fight. I take being a warrior of Christ seriously.

HD, I wasn't sure how to take your original question, with the time periods of "Native Americans, Abraham, and Adam" that you gave. Guess I'm still not sure where you are at there (where does authority for truth reside, with God and His Word, or with man's "wisdom"). The question is a fair one though, and I gave my answer as I would to any "perceived discrepancy" between man's science, and God's Word.

I know and trust that God will not mislead me, and His Word is truth. I know that man's "science" is truly assumptions made from observations in the world around us. "Science" has changed course on it's "facts" many times in the past, after "new discoveries" opened our eyes to a whole new level of understanding. Therefore, when "science" (the limited 'wisdom' of man) contradicts with God's Word, I believe the Word.

As far as "less and less people going to church and coming to Christ", I leave the conversion of lost souls to God, for He is the only one that can do that. I try to do my part as I/we've been called to do, by sharing the gospel where I have opportunity as I go about my daily life. "So shall my Word be that goeth forth out of my mouth. It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Is. 55:11.

 

[RDFF]

RDFF: Anyone who doesn't have faith in the saving work of the Savior as their ONLY hope of salvation (not of works in themself), then yes, that individual is/will be lost eternally.

I plan on living my life by the Golden Rule. If it turns out that there is a judgement day and I get declined because of the above quote, then I didn't want what was being offered anyway.

Silver, you may not want what God is offering you... but are you then comfortable with the alternative which you are choosing? You won't be able to say to God on that day that no one told you of His mercy. For you, and any who believe that living by the "golden rule" will earn you a way into heaven "IF there is a judgement day", I'll leave you with these verses, written specifically FOR YOU and TO YOU from the Creator God Himself, who loves you and died for you, because He wants you to be with Him in heaven when your short time here on this earth is done. May God bless you.

Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

John 3:16-19 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ; who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[callmefence]

HD, I wasn't sure how to take your original question, with the time periods of "Native Americans, Abraham, and Adam" that you gave. Guess I'm still not sure where you are at there (where does authority for truth reside, with God and His Word, or with man's "wisdom"). The question is a fair one though, and I gave my answer as I would to any "perceived discrepancy" between man's science, and God's Word.

I know and trust that God will not mislead me, and His Word is truth. I know that man's "science" is truly assumptions made from observations in the world around us. "Science" has changed course on it's "facts" many times in the past, after "new discoveries" opened our eyes to a whole new level of understanding. Therefore, when "science" (the limited 'wisdom' of man) contradicts with God's Word, I believe the Word.

As far as "less and less people going to church and coming to Christ", I leave the conversion of lost souls to God, for He is the only one that can do that. I try to do my part as I/we've been called to do, by sharing the gospel where I have opportunity as I go about my daily life. "So shall my Word be that goeth forth out of my mouth. It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Is. 55:11.

It's really quite obvious there where humans on this earth long before biblical times. There is a large camp on my place where points dating back over 12000 years are regularly found. We don't know how long man has been here. Possible that there have been several rise and falls of civilization. What we do know is that we date older than Adam and Eve.
There are multiple types of human dna as well. I believe what see.
Religion has a practice of coming up with new angles to counter anything that might challenge it. I don't think people are leaving religion for any other reason except evolution. We're getting smart enough to see through the mambajamba

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Mambajamba? I suspect religion (as you know it) is a 'practice' and I am sorry for that. There is a great difference in reading occasionally from
the Word and reading (or digesting ) the whole Book. [Someone will translate that to say I inferred you did not read the Book-not true]
A good measure of the Bible is the annoucement or prophesy of Cyrus by name 150 ? years before he was born. Another is the return of
Israel to the land and the Hebrew language. Martin Luther himself said "If the Jews ever return to Israel the churches will empty in the
the rush to follow them. So far Luther is partially correct, the churches are emptying. A hundred years ago the thought of Israel being the
force they are in the world today was unheard of and would have been ridiculed from the pulpit of most New Testament only churches.
I did not grow up in a Bible reading church going house. We were (are) good people by worldly standards and yes as such we were raised
to believe in a higher power. Never was in a church other than for a funeral until I left home. Church was sitting in rows looking at the
back of some persons head, trying to stay awake while listening to someone reading from notes of/or scripture.
That is not church, that is religion. We, you, me and all believers are the Church. The building with the steeple and the parking lot
is but a location where church can be held. I shall not ask your opinion on anything concerning this as you are very clear on where you
stand. If by chance someone asks you, "Have you seen My servant Job'? , you can reply, "No, but Your servant Lee mentioned him,"

 

[callmefence]

Mambajamba? I suspect religion (as you know it) is a 'practice' and I am sorry for that. There is a great difference in reading occasionally from
the Word and reading (or digesting ) the whole Book. [Someone will translate that to say I inferred you did not read the Book-not true]
A good measure of the Bible is the annoucement or prophesy of Cyrus by name 150 ? years before he was born. Another is the return of
Israel to the land and the Hebrew language. Martin Luther himself said "If the Jews ever return to Israel the churches will empty in the
the rush to follow them. So far Luther is partially correct, the churches are emptying. A hundred years ago the thought of Israel being the
force they are in the world today was unheard of and would have been ridiculed from the pulpit of most New Testament only churches.
I did not grow up in a Bible reading church going house. We were (are) good people by worldly standards and yes as such we were raised
to believe in a higher power. Never was in a church other than for a funeral until I left home. Church was sitting in rows looking at the
back of some persons head, trying to stay awake while listening to someone reading from notes of/or scripture.
That is not church, that is religion. We, you, me and all believers are the Church. The building with the steeple and the parking lot
is but a location where church can be held. I shall not ask your opinion on anything concerning this as you are very clear on where you
stand. If by chance someone asks you, "Have you seen My servant Job'? , you can reply, "No, but Your servant Lee mentioned him,"

Okeydoke lvr, I'll let em know.

 

[shaz]

A good measure of the Bible is the annoucement or prophesy of Cyrus by name 150 ? years before he was born.

I spent nearly my entire life as an agnostic because I didn't realize such clues were out there. I dismissed the Bible without knowing that there are many cases for faith that don't require faith to believe in.

 

[callmefence]

Of the multitude of religions in the history of the world the common denominator for the most part is eternal life. The human being perhaps is the only animal that understands death and that it is imminent. Faith is how mankind deals with that .