redsimangus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2014
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 0
howdy. wondering what you guys thought of a shorthorn Angus cross? thinking of getting a shorthorn bull just was wondering what the calves grew out like and all?
shorthorn cross
- Thread starter redsimangus
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Taurus
Well-known member
I believe that will be a fine cross assuming that shorthorn bull is a solid red. Good momma cows and the steers will ring a bell at the sale barn. My personal experiences with our own SH x Angus crosses is limited because of the particular shorthorn cows we had that wasn't doing good job with raising calves and poor WW in the calves out of angus bulls. These cows got culled and we kept the lone shorthorn cow because she is doing good job with calves so she gets to stay on the farm.
redsimangus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2014
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 0
bull has a dab of white on his forehead and a little on his underbelly. what's the problem with white on the bull? just wondering.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Agreed they should be solid red, and pay attention to the build of the bull, make sure he's meaty... I think SH's are a little slower to finish, and need to be backgrounded a little longer until they finish growing skeletally before they'll put a lot of weight on. SH's can be temperamental as well, I've heard them called "petty", they'll fight over anything. For the most part they've been good mothers, and many were good producers... I've had a couple 1/2 and 3/4 SH's that never could raise a decent calf either, and the strangest thing is they were from the best mothers... go figure.
I wouldn't be concerned about a small amount of white, but if they throw a lot of roan, a lot of buyers will think longhorn and you'll take a hit at a sale barn... Also, if you keep replacements from this bull you can get funny markings for generations.. really hard to knock the chrome off them.
I wouldn't be concerned about a small amount of white, but if they throw a lot of roan, a lot of buyers will think longhorn and you'll take a hit at a sale barn... Also, if you keep replacements from this bull you can get funny markings for generations.. really hard to knock the chrome off them.
Taurus
Well-known member
He should be fine assuming that he do not have a roan gene. Roan calves or calves with too much chromo take a hit at the sale barn. But with today's prices so the dock is probably won't bad or have no dock on these calves. He will throws calves with spotting gene tho if you are planning to keep replacements out of him.redsimangus":2uzjdoy4 said:
redsimangus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2014
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 0
no we buy all of our replacements so shouldn't be a problem there. sorry if this is a dumb question but does chrome mean white?
Taurus
Well-known member
Yes.redsimangus":3qdt425a said:
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Been using solid red polled Shorthorn sires over most of the high %Angus and AngusXSimAngus cows in our herd for the past 5-6 years; have been VERY pleased with the steers; Have kept most of the heifers, as ANxSH cows is what we were shooting for; Only a few in production so far, so it's too early to tell exactly how well they're gonna do.
Most have been solid black or solid red. With Simmental back behind all these cows, we have had a few with small spots, and most have some 'chrome' on the underline. The old Simmental color dilution gene in some of these cows has given us a few brown calves - but pretty much only out of brown cows.
Depending on the bull, you may be well-pleased. We've used a couple that we got just so-so calves from - but that could also be partly due to the dam.
Used Waukaru Orion 2047 in a progeny test breeding trial last year, against his maternal grandsire, Waukaru Coppertop 464; weaned and sold the steers a couple of weeks back - the Orion calves blew the doors off everything in the Spring herd - avg WW was 694 lb vs 642 lb for the Coppertop group - but there was a twin in the Coppertop group who pulled the average down.
Most have been solid black or solid red. With Simmental back behind all these cows, we have had a few with small spots, and most have some 'chrome' on the underline. The old Simmental color dilution gene in some of these cows has given us a few brown calves - but pretty much only out of brown cows.
Depending on the bull, you may be well-pleased. We've used a couple that we got just so-so calves from - but that could also be partly due to the dam.
Used Waukaru Orion 2047 in a progeny test breeding trial last year, against his maternal grandsire, Waukaru Coppertop 464; weaned and sold the steers a couple of weeks back - the Orion calves blew the doors off everything in the Spring herd - avg WW was 694 lb vs 642 lb for the Coppertop group - but there was a twin in the Coppertop group who pulled the average down.
Nesikep
Well-known member
You posted some pictures of them right? they were real nice guys 
What thread was that?
What thread was that?tamarack
Well-known member
I don't know about the roan bull discounts,i raise purebred and commercial shorthorns and when I started every one wanted red bulls if they had small spots of white it was no problem. Now when I have everything red I have most of my buyers are looking for roan or white shorthorn bulls a good roan or white bull will bring a premium. I ask the ranchers why they want roans now, and they say that the British breeds are sold as a premium crossed with a continental breed as they grade better and rate of gain is good. The red roan , blue roan , yellow roan,all stick out as 1/2 British bred. With all the other breeds going black you cant tell if they are black angus, black gelbvie and so on. This is my experience in this part of Canada cant speak for the rest of the area.
Nesikep
Well-known member
The truth of it is you will NEVER have what the market wants! In the end you gotta pick something and make it work. I love nice roan cattle, but the sale barn I go to it doesn't seem to work very well.
Taurus
Well-known member
Here in United States, it is hard to find a reliable solid red shorthorn or any shorthorns that wasn't bred for showring as majority of shorthorns in U.S are club calves. Majority of these clubby types are nonfunctional cattle.tamarack":3iqgme7r said:
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Taurus,
When we embarked on our Shorthorn breeding trials, I was warned of the 'two worlds' of Shorthorns, by a Shorthorn breeder who plays in both arenas.
There are 'commercially-oriented' Shorthorns here in the U.S. - but you have to know where to look for them; certainly not as prevalent as in some other 'major' breeds.
Rob Sneed, Gary Kaper, Josh Moreland, Dover Ranch, A&T, Shady Maple, Lovings - would all be pretty far removed from anything 'showring', very commercial-oriented. Probably quite a few others that I've skipped, inadvertently - so, the above list is not intended to be all-inclusive.
Waukaru Shorthorns have been concentrating on calving ease and performance genetics for decades; growth and emphasis on carcass quality. We've been well-pleased with performance we've gotten from the 4 Waukaru sires we've used.
Nesikep, I have no idea how to post photos here; probably not gonna happen.
When we embarked on our Shorthorn breeding trials, I was warned of the 'two worlds' of Shorthorns, by a Shorthorn breeder who plays in both arenas.
There are 'commercially-oriented' Shorthorns here in the U.S. - but you have to know where to look for them; certainly not as prevalent as in some other 'major' breeds.
Rob Sneed, Gary Kaper, Josh Moreland, Dover Ranch, A&T, Shady Maple, Lovings - would all be pretty far removed from anything 'showring', very commercial-oriented. Probably quite a few others that I've skipped, inadvertently - so, the above list is not intended to be all-inclusive.
Waukaru Shorthorns have been concentrating on calving ease and performance genetics for decades; growth and emphasis on carcass quality. We've been well-pleased with performance we've gotten from the 4 Waukaru sires we've used.
Nesikep, I have no idea how to post photos here; probably not gonna happen.
tamarack
Well-known member
Any breeder that I know breeds shorthorn for beef and they are getting more popular every year. Breeding for calving ease has been an ongoing thing that shorthorns have to get by in order to move ahead. They have rate of gain,marbleing , docility going for them. imo Tamarack.
I decided to try Shorthorn for the docility factor. I can see a time coming that I won't be able to jump up on the top rail of the pen to get out of the way. I will say that I'm pretty impressed with how this bull has held up at his age with the amount of cows he was with on nothing but grass. I fully expected to have to pull him off and feed him for a while between breeding the spring calvers and the fall calvers. Or even let him rest and put in another bull. I've got about thirty head of spring calvers and about 15 head of fall calvers with a bull that just turned two. Hoping for a better keeping, easy fleshing brood cow, that doesn't spend every waking hour trying to escape or plotting revenge for something. I'll let everyone know how much chrome shows up and if I wear out my calf jack. I'm not really worried about the chrome, I figured if the current trend holds, I can make some brood cows, and still be able to move the steers. I think purple spotted green steers would sell right now.
randiliana
Well-known member
Check this post out. A good portion of these calves are Shorthornx. Mostly with Angus and/or Hereford.... we weighed them Oct 1, average weight was 570 lbs and the one on the Blue Roan cow was the heaviest @ 728 lbs. Calves were born mostly in March and early April.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=94154
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=94154
Nesikep
Well-known member
Randiliana has some very nice SHx animals indeed
I would be hesitant to say shorthorns are too docile.. There are lines I'm sure that are, but we have a number of SH cows that are meaner than hell at calving time (they're fine the other 362 days of the year though), and I have others that are always very nice. Speaking in generalities, I found the GV to be more docile, and if the new Limo bull we have is any indication of his calves, they're all going to be suckers for pettings.
Apart from market trends with color, I would say my biggest concern with SH's is to get meaty ones, and not skinny looking racks. For those who have seen Sabine (I posted a video of her enormous udder with a gallon of colostrum in each quarter), she looks like a coat rack, I don't think she's ever been over a BCS of 4, mean as tarnation for 4 days after calving, but has had the first calf if the year about 6 times, so she always breeds back, raises her steers to over 700 lbs at weaning, and her daughters have been pretty darned good too (and much more docile).
Mega, my 'milk cow', (1/4SH), and her mother (1/2 SH) are both excellent cows, Mega is giving me 1 1/2 gallons of milk a day in 1 milking, and that's after raising a 600 lb steer in 150 days.
SH's also have good maternal calving ease in my experience.. Mega's mother routinely had 140 lb bulls and never had an ounce of trouble doing it, Mega had a 130 lb bull this year with no trouble either, Yes, all our birthweights are pretty high, but they are very rarely beyond the cow's capacity... For hard pulls, I'd say I'm around 3-4%, with losses due to large calves at under 1%.
SH's do have a lot of good sides to them and I'll probably keep a percentage in my herd, though for me I think I'd like to keep it under 1/2 in the mommas.
As with any cow, a heavy producer is going to need some groceries to do it with.
I would be hesitant to say shorthorns are too docile.. There are lines I'm sure that are, but we have a number of SH cows that are meaner than hell at calving time (they're fine the other 362 days of the year though), and I have others that are always very nice. Speaking in generalities, I found the GV to be more docile, and if the new Limo bull we have is any indication of his calves, they're all going to be suckers for pettings.
Apart from market trends with color, I would say my biggest concern with SH's is to get meaty ones, and not skinny looking racks. For those who have seen Sabine (I posted a video of her enormous udder with a gallon of colostrum in each quarter), she looks like a coat rack, I don't think she's ever been over a BCS of 4, mean as tarnation for 4 days after calving, but has had the first calf if the year about 6 times, so she always breeds back, raises her steers to over 700 lbs at weaning, and her daughters have been pretty darned good too (and much more docile).
Mega, my 'milk cow', (1/4SH), and her mother (1/2 SH) are both excellent cows, Mega is giving me 1 1/2 gallons of milk a day in 1 milking, and that's after raising a 600 lb steer in 150 days.
SH's also have good maternal calving ease in my experience.. Mega's mother routinely had 140 lb bulls and never had an ounce of trouble doing it, Mega had a 130 lb bull this year with no trouble either, Yes, all our birthweights are pretty high, but they are very rarely beyond the cow's capacity... For hard pulls, I'd say I'm around 3-4%, with losses due to large calves at under 1%.
SH's do have a lot of good sides to them and I'll probably keep a percentage in my herd, though for me I think I'd like to keep it under 1/2 in the mommas.
As with any cow, a heavy producer is going to need some groceries to do it with.
When I say docile, trying to kill you over a day old calf is not part of the equation. What I'm trying to get away from is the type of cattle that snort and run around in circles mashing down gates just because you happened to sneak up and shut the gate while they were eating salt. I have found that the ones that don't like things messing with their babies, are the ones that show up with nice babies come fall. I just don't like fighting with them over a six month old calf.
