Shooting cows with birdshot

[john250]

If this thread was on the front page of the NY Times...? Or on 60 Minutes?
I understand there are unique problems in raising cattle out on the open range. But I am a cattleman and I have had my share of wild ones through the years. I sympathize. The 99% of people who aren't cattlemen are going nuts on this one. And they are thinking cattle=cruelty even though we know that isn't true outside of isolated cases.
Whether shot penetrates the skin or doesn't is almost irrelevant. Let someone get video of a cowboy firing a shotgun at a bovine and we will see that video 10,000 times. It won't matter if the bovine is injured or not--the damage (in public perception) is done when the hammer comes down on the cartridge.
If necessity requires these methods, I would never, ever breathe a word of it. SSS.
We are in a world of hurt in this business. We have powerful, influential enemies who are always looking for more evidence that we operate in a corrupt system which peddles poisonous products to unsuspecting consumers.
I'm not condemning anyone, but I'd just as soon see this thread locked and deleted.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If this thread was on the front page of the NY Times...? Or on 60 Minutes?
I understand there are unique problems in raising cattle out on the open range. But I am a cattleman and I have had my share of wild ones through the years. I sympathize. The 99% of people who aren't cattlemen are going nuts on this one. And they are thinking cattle=cruelty even though we know that isn't true outside of isolated cases.
Whether shot penetrates the skin or doesn't is almost irrelevant. Let someone get video of a cowboy firing a shotgun at a bovine and we will see that video 10,000 times. It won't matter if the bovine is injured or not--the damage (in public perception) is done when the hammer comes down on the cartridge.
If necessity requires these methods, I would never, ever breathe a word of it. SSS.
We are in a world of hurt in this business. We have powerful, influential enemies who are always looking for more evidence that we operate in a corrupt system which peddles poisonous products to unsuspecting consumers.
I'm not condemning anyone, but I'd just as soon see this thread locked and deleted.

or someone that isnt a cattleman run a forklift through one. alot worse happens to em when they leave the ranch than some know

 

[Brute 23]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.

They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.

Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

 

[john250]

They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.

I hope you are right. I really do hope so.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.

• >>They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy <<<

and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.

Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

i can't understand where the cowboy got wadded up in this thread myself..

 

[Brute 23]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.

• >>They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy <<<

and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.

Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

i can't understand where the cowboy got wadded up in this thread myself..

Alot of people like to refer to being rough with cattle as a "cowboy" thing. Many newer "cattlemen" believe that alot of what they do it out dated and no necessary. IF you look back some one said some thing to the effect that a good cattlemen with the modern ways don't have to do things like shoot cattle... I think. :|

Plus... I think we wore out the original topic and are just shooting the breeze now. :lol:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.

• >>They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy <<<

and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.

Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

i can't understand where the cowboy got wadded up in this thread myself..

Alot of people like to refer to being rough with cattle as a "cowboy" thing. Many newer "cattlemen" believe that alot of what they do it out dated and no necessary. IF you look back some one said some thing to the effect that a good cattlemen with the modern ways don't have to do things like shoot cattle... I think. :|

Plus... I think we wore out the original topic and are just shooting the breeze now. :lol:

ahh like the boys they hire off the street at the stockyard too punch cattle. and hoop and hollar. i just never knew shootin cattle in the ass was a prerequsite to being a cowboy ;-)

 

[Wild Cattle]

I was gone hauling a load of"tame" cattle to the sale barn...this thing has brought up some good points.

The cow brought $48/ cwt. There was nothing wrong with her. She had a calf every year and only got one dose of wormer in her life, would not come to cake, and was a real good mother. I would have kept her if she was not living in a 6 section brushy pasture.

We do tranq.some cattle. Its not as easy as it sounds. They must be in the right spot"no brush and a road near by" Mortality is about the same as roping. We have trailers with winches for loading heavy cattle.

It is looks like most people on this board do not know how cattle are raised in the south west, there is a big differance between ranching and farming. Alot of cattle out here see a man twice a year.

Why is it OK for a cow owner to let his bulls or cows ravage his neighbors country just because he does't have the skills to handle his livestock. I see this over and over "my bull is on the neighbors", "my cows will not come in the pen with the cake sack", I don't work my calves, I just sell them when I can catch some". I get hired to do work for alot of good cattlemen, but I also get to clean up alot of crap, because some "cow owners" do not have the skills to handle their cattle. It takes cowboys to handle "some cattle" not all. But when you need a cowboy nothing else will do.

All the negative "Cowboy" coments have come, I am sure, from people who have never seen a real cowboy crew work. Never, ever is rough handeling excused, we are required to do a job with the least amount of stress to the cattle at all times, but some cattle,Wild cattle, require a firmer hand. How many times have ya'll seen a farmer hit a cow with his truck?

 

[ALX.]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

 What is Nieve? The cowboy legacy of stupidity?What is the Texas Cattlemens Association view on your incompetence?  Lottsa braggarts say they belong, can we get an official stance on correcting cattle with lead?Oh, You trying to get people to stop eating meat, keep pounding lead pellets into them and putting photos of that abused cow on the internet.Hey Brute - Maybe you and Osama run the world soon, you sure seem connected!ALACOWTARGET - relax, you aren't even fun to play with.

 

[Brute 23]

Here good cow hands don't get picked up at the stockyard. They usually have pleanty of work and can choose who they want to work for... if they are good. It almost takes a connection to get them to come to your place.

 

[Wild Cattle]

Alx, that cow was not abused, she was caught with relative ease. She and her 2 calves were bayed with dogs, roped and tied and loaded in the trailer within about 20 min of being spotted. she busted her nose trying to kill two of my men. Thanks for asking how the broken arm is on the one man she caught on the ground. Insults are for those who are out of ideas...

 

[Wewild]

Around here the cowboys only wear cowboy hats when they go to the rodeo's. They wear baseball caps to work. They don't carry guns but they do carry dogs. They do a good job of not hurting the animals although i have seen times when the animal just had a stronger will than was good for the cattle themselves. It has not been often that this was the case. Someone else posted this fact ... but you can't allow them to no be gotten up. One bad apple won't spoil the whole bunch but it will have an impact. i've seen a cow that stayed in a thicket outside the pasture for over a year and had a calf while there. It goes against what we've been taught that bovine are herd animals. She just didn't fit that bill. She broke her leg running from the dogs. i got around $400 for her at the slaughter house .... i'd have to look it up to be more exact.

i'm not gona say what is right and wrong about the using birdshot on cattle. i saw it done but have never had to. i suppose if i fired a gun at something it would die. i have done that from time to time but only on cattle when they need to ease on out ... never when they couldn't be managed.

As has been said before.... one thing don't fit all.

 

[JMichal]

If this thread was on the front page of the NY Times...? Or on 60 Minutes?
I understand there are unique problems in raising cattle out on the open range. But I am a cattleman and I have had my share of wild ones through the years. I sympathize. The 99% of people who aren't cattlemen are going nuts on this one. And they are thinking cattle=cruelty even though we know that isn't true outside of isolated cases.
Whether shot penetrates the skin or doesn't is almost irrelevant. Let someone get video of a cowboy firing a shotgun at a bovine and we will see that video 10,000 times. It won't matter if the bovine is injured or not--the damage (in public perception) is done when the hammer comes down on the cartridge.
If necessity requires these methods, I would never, ever breathe a word of it. SSS.
We are in a world of hurt in this business. We have powerful, influential enemies who are always looking for more evidence that we operate in a corrupt system which peddles poisonous products to unsuspecting consumers.
I'm not condemning anyone, but I'd just as soon see this thread locked and deleted.

Best post in the entire thread. :tiphat:

 

[JMichal]

I see your point John 250, but some where we have to make a stand. By doing that we bend over to "them". Those people think they have power but they have hit the right nerve yet.They go messing with the American legacey of the cowboy and you might see some things change. Nieve yes maybe, but I hope not. We can't keep pushing things under the rug.Alot of these ranches where this stuff is going on are some very high profile people, not celebs, I am talking stroke where it counts. They only let PETA and these other people get away with what they want them too. The cattle industry can make a stand because we have some thing they need. Not every one is going to stop eating meat... ;-)

 What is Nieve? The cowboy legacy of stupidity?What is the Texas Cattlemens Association view on your incompetence?  Lottsa braggarts say they belong, can we get an official stance on correcting cattle with lead?Oh, You trying to get people to stop eating meat, keep pounding lead pellets into them and putting photos of that abused cow on the internet.Hey Brute - Maybe you and Osama run the world soon, you sure seem connected!ALACOWTARGET - relax, you aren't even fun to play with.

It's not Osama, it's Obama! :dunce: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[CattleHand]

Ive enjoyed this thread. Its been interesting to read the replies. We had a bull once that had gotten cripple and wouldn't get up. We didnt take a shot at his ass but we used a pitch fork and once we got him trotting I was in the pick up driving and my cousin was out the other side with the pitch fork trying to give it to him as hard as he could. I swear the bull hardly felt it and my cousin is a big guy and really gave it to him. Wonder what 60 minutes would think about that or any of those other PETA folks. That hide is pretty thick ALX.

Im curious at how you guys drop a cow and drag it into a trailer with out breaking its neck or causing some seroiusly damage. Ive never seen it done before and hoping someone would care to explain (though i never plan to do it)

 

[Wewild]

Im curious at how you guys drop a cow and drag it into a trailer with out breaking its neck or causing some seroiusly damage. Ive never seen it done before and hoping someone would care to explain (though i never plan to do it)

One ropes the head and the other the back legs and they put them on the ground. Back up the trailer. Run a rope through the trailer at neck height to the front. Attach horse and rider to other end. Let animal up and pull. If bigger use more horses.

 

[Victoria]

If this thread was on the front page of the NY Times...? Or on 60 Minutes?
I understand there are unique problems in raising cattle out on the open range. But I am a cattleman and I have had my share of wild ones through the years. I sympathize. The 99% of people who aren't cattlemen are going nuts on this one. And they are thinking cattle=cruelty even though we know that isn't true outside of isolated cases.
Whether shot penetrates the skin or doesn't is almost irrelevant. Let someone get video of a cowboy firing a shotgun at a bovine and we will see that video 10,000 times. It won't matter if the bovine is injured or not--the damage (in public perception) is done when the hammer comes down on the cartridge.
If necessity requires these methods, I would never, ever breathe a word of it. SSS.
We are in a world of hurt in this business. We have powerful, influential enemies who are always looking for more evidence that we operate in a corrupt system which peddles poisonous products to unsuspecting consumers.
I'm not condemning anyone, but I'd just as soon see this thread locked and deleted.

Best post in the entire thread. :tiphat:

Agreed.

 

[Victoria]

I agree that we need to strive to produce good meat, but what do we do with the wild cattle. What your plants are saying is shoot the cow in the pasture and let it lay... don't bring it to us. People are starving here in America and they are turning meat away... :???:

Not every one is shooting to produce Grade A meat, that can cost you some times. IF the meat I produce goes to dog food that is fine as long as my business is staying out of the red. We eat it and have no problems with it. I will let some one else conform and try to please THE MEDIA'S AMERICA with all their standards.

What are plants are beginning to say is that we have to change our ways - if we want to raise cattle as wild game then we will have to kill them as wild game. No one goes out and tries to round up the moose around here and take them to the plant. They want cattle that are fairly docile - they don't have to be pattable but they don't want the ones that are trying to kill people. As I said earlier our auction market will only railgrade a cow that wild, they won't let her in the ring. They refuse to take the chances with their employees. Can't say I blame them.
I watched at our calf sale last year as a neighbour's steer turned on the ring guy. He was sold apart from the group and went cheaper. I can't afford to lose money due to a poor disposition and neither can the feedlot guys.
I'm not conforming to the media's america but I will provide the Canadian consumer with what they want.

 

[Victoria]

Betcha a tall cool one that hay field had a fence around it. Problem is not with the hay field but with the field that's suppose to be holding that cow that got into the hay field. But the title of the topic is "Shooting cows with birdshot". Does it really matter? Never seen too many minds changed nor arguements won or lost on a message board. :frowns:

:nod: Common sense...

I like to hear other peoples views. Its alot easier to beat the enemy if you know how they think. ;-)

Do you consider me to be the enemy? :shock: :???:

 

[Victoria]

Alx, that cow was not abused, she was caught with relative ease. She and her 2 calves were bayed with dogs, roped and tied and loaded in the trailer within about 20 min of being spotted. she busted her nose trying to kill two of my men. Thanks for asking how the broken arm is on the one man she caught on the ground. Insults are for those who are out of ideas...

I really don't see how $48/ cw was worth a broken arm on one guy, busted gates, two guys nearly dead and whatever else may happen to other people who run into her before she is dead.