Shooting cows with birdshot

[Wild Cattle]

OK, Wild Cattle I have got to ask. Why was the cow being loaded? Did she actually get sold?

This was a contract job, gathering,working and shipping calves and cows and catching and shipping wild cattle.

I spent alot of time and resourses bringing her to the pens, I did not worm her and turn her back out.She would never have been caught again. When she was caught, she was sucking a 500# calf and had the one from the year before still with her also. All three plus about 28 more cows just like her and 125 hd of yearlings went to the sale barn.In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

 

[Brute 23]

In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

:clap:

Yall didn't take her to an animal psychologist. Maybe she had a hard life and that was the reason she was so angry.

 

[Victoria]

OK, Wild Cattle I have got to ask. Why was the cow being loaded? Did she actually get sold?

This was a contract job, gathering,working and shipping calves and cows and catching and shipping wild cattle.

I spent alot of time and resourses bringing her to the pens, I did not worm her and turn her back out.She would never have been caught again. When she was caught, she was sucking a 500# calf and had the one from the year before still with her also. All three plus about 28 more cows just like her and 125 hd of yearlings went to the sale barn.In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

That's what I thought. You must charge a fair penny, I sure would if I was dealing with wild animals. Add on to that the damage that she did and it must add up. I don't know what cows go for there but here you would get less than $100. for a sorry looking cow, wild cow like that. Don't get me wrong, she'd probably be a pretty good cow if she had actually been fed. Our auction market would not send her through the ring. She would be railgraded.
Then when all is said and done who would want to eat her? Between the lack of meat and the high amounts of adreline because you are sending a wild animal through a packing plant I can't see the quality being too high at the other end. There's a reason why moose are not sent through packing plants and are left alone and just shot in the pature.
Is 4 years about average for how long the cattle last there? I am not being facetious when I ask that question. Just looks like the cow had a pretty nasty life and I can't imagine them living into their old age.

 

[Victoria]

In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

:clap:

Yall didn't take her to an animal psychologist. Maybe she had a hard life and that was the reason she was so angry.

You laugh but you are probably right Brute! Had she been born to a different ranch that takes care of their cattle she'd be a good looking calm 4 year old instead of pitiful looking wild animal. She'd still be raising good looking calves and making them far more money than she ever made for the people that sold her.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

:clap:

Yall didn't take her to an animal psychologist. Maybe she had a hard life and that was the reason she was so angry.

You laugh but you are probably right Brute! Had she been born to a different ranch that takes care of their cattle she'd be a good looking calm 4 year old instead of pitiful looking wild animal. She'd still be raising good looking calves and making them far more money than she ever made for the people that sold her.

those gert's tend to be a little high strung that did'nt help the situation much. ive seen them raised under the best condition's and act nearly as bad

 

[dun]

those gert's tend to be a little high strung that did'nt help the situation much. ive seen them raised under the best condition's and act nearly as bad

Isn;t just gerts. We have a steer we just weaned that has insane his entore life. Calm easy going cow bull that was laid back to the point of almost being comatose. The other calves all look at him like they wonder what's going on that has him so spun up.

 

[TexasBred]

Out in West Texas a lot of those cows on those large spreads of land are just tax write-offs I'm sure. That ol' red cow might not have ever seen a human til Wildcow rode up on that horse. She had two calves on the ground and probably was bred again so I doubt the man lost any money on her. But she could have been a good cow. This is sort of like ranching in the 1800's.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

That ole SG cow would have stayed out in the brush and raised calves ever year for a good many years. The point is she had managed to hide out with her calf the year before and if they had not went in and got her she would have done it agin and agin. Every year she would have got smarter about not getting caught. I don't no how many cows this ranch runs or how many acres they run them on but you can bet you can't see it all from the front porch. The cow in the pitcure was just your average range cow, in decent condition, and ready to work or fight. Left alone she would work. Monkey around with her or her calf and she will fight. They are not running a petting zoo, just a cattle ranch.

 

[irked]

it's always amusing to me how each person thinks their environment is the harshest and that their cattle are the roughest. how can all of us have the roughest cattle and the harshest environment?

shooting cattle is a problem to our industry. those of you who deny that it is a problem or deny that shot can penetrate the hides are only showing your ignorance. this article from way back in 2002 proves that:

http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_gut_shot/



we are not just stewards of our land and cattle. we are also stewards of the consumer's trust in our product. some of our practices threaten that trust. declining demand is a real cost that will impact all of us. additionally, some of our practices take money out of the industry. money spent by processors on metal detectors and x-ray equipment is money that is not available to spend on cattle.

there are cowboys and then there are cattlemen. many cattlemen are becoming aware of the changes that we need to make to survive into the future. others still need some work. cowboys, as evidenced here, are the most resistant to those changes. cowboys are like cowdogs and cowhorses in that they are a necessity to our business. none of us with larger operations could make it without our cowboys. but some of the responses here demonstrate the reasons that they don't get to make the management decisions. it's time for us to separate ourselves from the poor management practices of the past.

 

[Brute 23]

In my part of Texas the only time a range cow gets "loaded" is to go to the packer.

:clap:

Yall didn't take her to an animal psychologist. Maybe she had a hard life and that was the reason she was so angry.

You laugh but you are probably right Brute! Had she been born to a different ranch that takes care of their cattle she'd be a good looking calm 4 year old instead of pitiful looking wild animal. She'd still be raising good looking calves and making them far more money than she ever made for the people that sold her.

There are pleanty of cattle out there who are raised the exact same and do not act that way. Some animals are just going to be that away and when you deal in large numbers the odds of you finding them are greater. ;-)

 

[TexasBred]

it's always amusing to me how each person thinks their environment is the harshest and that their cattle are the roughest. how can all of us have the roughest cattle and the harshest environment?

shooting cattle is a problem to our industry. those of you who deny that it is a problem or deny that shot can penetrate the hides are only showing your ignorance. this article from way back in 2002 proves that:

http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_gut_shot/



we are not just stewards of our land and cattle. we are also stewards of the consumer's trust in our product. some of our practices threaten that trust. declining demand is a real cost that will impact all of us. additionally, some of our practices take money out of the industry. money spent by processors on metal detectors and x-ray equipment is money that is not available to spend on cattle.

there are cowboys and then there are cattlemen. many cattlemen are becoming aware of the changes that we need to make to survive into the future. others still need some work. cowboys, as evidenced here, are the most resistant to those changes. cowboys are like cowdogs and cowhorses in that they are a necessity to our business. none of us with larger operations could make it without our cowboys. but some of the responses here demonstrate the reasons that they don't get to make the management decisions. it's time for us to separate ourselves from the poor management practices of the past.

Irked...I know what birdshot will do...at close range even bird shot will blow a hole thru your belly as big as a soccer ball....at 50 yards you won't get hit by half dozen pellets and they certainly wouldn't penetrate cow hide. Ever skinned a cow????? Never shot a cow but have been mad enough to give it some consideration. If I ever decide to do it she'll be far enough away it will only scare her. If I wanted to kill the ol' hussy I'd shoot her with a 30:06.

 

[Brute 23]

Irked, Welcome back.

I would still like to hear your anwer to my question. How would you run 150,000 acres with those new management techniques you were telling us about?

 

[Brute 23]

there are cowboys and then there are cattlemen. many cattlemen are becoming aware of the changes that we need to make to survive into the future. others still need some work. cowboys, as evidenced here, are the most resistant to those changes. cowboys are like cowdogs and cowhorses in that they are a necessity to our business. none of us with larger operations could make it without our cowboys. but some of the responses here demonstrate the reasons that they don't get to make the management decisions. it's time for us to separate ourselves from the poor management practices of the past.

:shock:That sounds like a jab at people who do day work. What do you think Wild Cattle?

Irked, in my opinion... the best places combine both the cowboy way and the cattlemen way.

Then there is the last sentense. Nothing like dividing the industry. :roll:

 

[MissouriExile]

The danger in this type of discussion is this:

Some rookie buys some cows and turnes them out, and come here for advise. Ya'll have him convinced that all cattle have a name and eat out of you hand. Then the neighbors bull shows up one day and will not leave. Now the rookie gets out his cake bucket and wants the lead Mr. bull back out the gate. Well this might be the bull that will stick a horn through his ribs before he can run back to the truck. And then his widow can sell that 12 gauge that was in his truck at the time in the estate sale. All strange cattle should be approached with caution, and yes a load of 6's in the back side does make them stay home.

Wild Cattle;

Thanks for your posts. You made your case well and stated it clearly and firmly. This has opened my eyes to another facet of the cattle industry that many (like myself) may never experience.
Clearly it is one thing to use birdshot on calm domesticated animals for little reason and another to use it on wild cattle to work them.

Jon

 

[TexasBred]

Irked...I think maybe you need to go to work on one of these big spreads, ride a horse and be a cowboy for a while. Oh and don't foget to take a shotgun. (Don't dare kill the rattlers... they are good varmits) Bet you a drink at the local saloon you'll come back with a different perspective on a lot of things.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Victoria I think right now that cow is in your shampoo, cosmetics, soap, insulin, and her hide is covering a chair or couch. She is also feeding a dog or cat too. Maybe some of her went into hamburger. Don't know.
There are numerous other uses for a cow or bull like that besides gracing a dinner plate.

Now I've never shot any of my cows with bird shot, but know of about 3 bulls that belonged to the neighbors that needed a .357 between the eyes.
First bull bred a bunch of first year heifers on our place back in the early 70's. Owner wouldn't do anything to keep him home. Last call grandpa made to the owner was ,"Come get your steer."
Second bull was at a neighbors place. People renting the pasture left this bull behind because they could not load him. He went after everybody. Chased my disabled neighbor into the house he was renting and then chased him in his car. Now he was not a cattleman. Called me asking what to do. Call the brand inspector, inspector won't come out or return calls. I called Sherrif and asked if it was lawful to shoot this bull if he charges people. 5 minutes later got the inspector calling me screaming that I could not shoot that bull. Told him to get out there to protect my neighbor before I did. owners finally came back and got him.
Third bull was also a neighbors, Charged and knocked down my husbands horse while he was on it trying to herd this bull home. Told the neighbors to ship him before he killed somebody.

Now these are not as wild as Brute and Wild Cattle are used to handling. They live a completely different way of life raising cattle that are completely different from what we raise. I admire the heck out of theses guys who can handle animals that wild and crazy and use any means nessacary to do it.

 

[Brute 23]

A majority of our cattle and the cattle I take care of are all pretty easy going,,, now. They can be pushed or will come when you shake a sack. Couple yearlings get a little excited some times but that is about it.

There are places out there where that is just not the case. People just need to know they are out there. One of my buddies and I always laugh (he takes care of about 4K ac.) becuase the places we take care of the cattle are easy going for the most part but yet we will hire out to catch/ work cattle. Kind of ironic. :lol:

Like what you are talking about Iluvherfords, an inspector telling some one they had better not. That is BS. Down here no inspector is going to say some thing like that... it would not be in their best interest. They do that in other areas because they can get away with it. We have to keep it that away or the government is going to restrict us to death. Just like there isn't any one who is going to walk up and tell alot of these ranchers for foremans not to shoot the cattle because of... what ever. It just will not happen. THe GWs can't even get on most of those places to regulate what is going on.

 

[Cowdirt]

Down here no inspector is going to say some thing like that... it would not be in their best interest.

I'm a respecter of the law selectively, I suppose, but in matters affecting the well-being of my family and friends and property; I maintain that it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

 

[ALX.]

I liked the picture.

  >>>>>Pretty representative photo<<<< representative of what>>> southern cattle ? not hardly  you dont like cheap shot's, then don't give them

I was hoping for a few chuckles, but it looks like it hurt your feelings. Maybe struck a little too close to home ALACOWTARGET?? 

That old girl would be one of your front pasture cows, right?Easier for target practise.  :lol:

And I love the guys who the more they abuse the livestock, the tougher or more real they are!  :lol:

And they are even talking to each other in the threads now hoping the other "manly" ranchers will chime in that they also cannot manage cattle without shooting them. INEPT INHUMANE COWARDS!

 

[Brute 23]

Yall are about as bad as politicians ALX and Irked. Yall talk about how wrong every thing is but have no clue what actually goes on so there for yall can not offer up any suggestions. Yall end up reverting to bashing the other people and avoiding the real subject. :roll:

I asked a clear question and no one has even attempted to answer it and offer up other possible solutions. Yall are obviously the experts in handling cattle in a humane way so educate us all... ;-)

Please watch the personal bashing... don't want them to lock the whole thing. :x