Selecting which heifers to keep

[SRBeef]

The thread on culling brings up another beginner's question: how do you choose the heifers to keep?

Looking at the weaning weights of all calves, if you keep the heaviest at weaning heifers won't that gradually increase the size of your cows? The ones that I like from a disposition standpoint are in the middle as far as weaning weight goes.

My biggest weaners were also the highest birthweight and I certainly don't want them to get any bigger than the "95 lb 3hr with 2 hooves showing" birth of the heaviest weaning calf.

Is birthweight and weaning weight more a function of the cow or the bull? I also want to keep my cow weight right at 1200 lb not 1500 or more. A scale in the alley gives you a lot of data but how do you use that data when retaining heifers?

How do you choose the heifers to keep?

 

[Aaron]

We keep all our calves to yearling, so picking out the better heifers is a lot easier. A lot is hidden by all that baby fat on a calf. The real performers show once mom isn't there for them anymore.

Usually we pick out the biggest (#'s, not weight) and best group of heifers that seem to complement each other. I can't remember the number of heifers we had to select from this spring, but we ended up with 5 or 6 heifers that seemed very close phenotypically. Shipped a couple this fall. So we end up with 4 real good heifers that we look forward to having in the herd.

We used to keep nearly all the heifers and give them a chance, but that can really work for you, or really hurt you as attrition rates in the first few years can be high, for lower cow prices. 2001 was a good year, a lot of those cows worked well for us and stayed around for a number of years.

I guess it depends if your expanding, decreasing or just maintaining your herd. We are in the maintenance phase right now. We would like to really improve the overall power and uniformity in our cowherd so our cull rates are high and replacements just enough to keep the numbers up.

 

[KNERSIE]

The thread on culling brings up another beginner's question: how do you choose the heifers to keep?

I start with the cows and identify the cows that work for me in my environment and look at their calves first. Calves out of those cows should be in the top half of the weaning weights anyhow. Correct structure, lots of capacity and good conformation as well as all the finer points are taken into consideration

Looking at the weaning weights of all calves, if you keep the heaviest at weaning heifers won't that gradually increase the size of your cows? The ones that I like from a disposition standpoint are in the middle as far as weaning weight goes.

Not neccesarily, not all calves' growth curve is a straight line,some grow faster up till 12 months and other start growing after that for instance. My heaviest weaning weights seldom equates to frame creep, but I don't have any more extremes in cow size in my herd left. The bulls I use are also moderate and I have usually seen lots of progeny in other herds so I more or less know what to expect before using them heavily. With experience of your own herd you'll soon see who weans heavy, but moderate calves without adding frame.

If you stick to only retaining calves out of cows adapted to your environment, mother nature will take care of the rest if you avoid obvious mistakes in bull selection

My biggest weaners were also the highest birthweight and I certainly don't want them to get any bigger than the "95 lb 3hr with 2 hooves showing" birth of the heaviest weaning calf.

That's where accurate record keeping comes in, avoid those extremes at birth regardless what they do after birth to weaning.

Is birthweight and weaning weight more a function of the cow or the bull?

Theoretically they play an equal role genetically. In reality the intra-uterine growth of the calf plays a big role too, so with that in mind the cow plays the bigger role in the short term. The genetics that you breed in from the bull's side quietly adds up so don't try and push your luck with the cows too far. You'll also find that some cows will have bigger BW than the average of the herd regardless which bull she is bred to, the opposite also applies.

I also want to keep my cow weight right at 1200 lb not 1500 or more.

Admirable, but not attainable goal. You'll soon see its more of a type that works than a weight in a given situation. The weight range that works for me is 1100 - 1350lbs, below that and there simply won't be enough bull for commercial purposes. That doesn't mean that I haven't had heavier cows that performed very admirably for me in the past.

A scale in the alley gives you a lot of data but how do you use that data when retaining heifers?

The scale is a tool, just like EPDs and your eye, but all of that has to play second fiddle to common sense.

How do you choose the heifers to keep

I think you are overthinking the whole deal, (if you strictly cull open cows and don't create an artificial situation out of a feedbag), generally the best looking heifers at weaning will be those raised best by their dams, in other words the cows that worked best for you, they will also be the first calves born in the season and therefore the older calves, or in other words out of the cows that bred back first the previous season so you'll automatically also be selecting for fertility and the type of cow that can handle your management and conditions.

After you've done that you can look into the detail like BW, hard labour, faults, etc.

 

[dun]

KNERSIE pretty well sums it up We want heifers that look good when they come at weaning, won;t keep those that really bloom and look their best after a couple of weeks of grain ration. Since we know what to expect from the cow we pretty well know hwat to expect from the heifer. But that is far from foolproof. We have one older cow that has alwasy raised an exceptional calf. We've always bred her to the same bull. Bull calves do great on the rail and the feeders really like them. Her first heifer is just like her (she's a 4th calver now) and her calves have always been exceptional. We kept a heifer from the old cow, sired by the same bull as all the others and she just didn;t have the same look and style as all of the other calves. We retained her because we knew what to expect. What we ended up with was a poor doing heifer with marginal milk and a calf that had brain tumors. That was one of those cases that we kept the heifer against my better judgement because of history. Turned out she just got the wrong mixture of genes to make a good cow.

 

[Alberta farmer]

I'll agree with Knersie on this one. Most people know which cows in their herd are doing a really good job of making you money? Those are the cows you want to raise your replacements...and yep those tend to be the big stout heifer calves.
Good udders, good feet, good dispositions, good conformation on the mothers are a "must" on our place. We are not real keen on milking cows, trimming feet, or getting killed!
Choose your bulls carefully. Look at his momma. Get the stats if possible. Try to look beyond the lard!
Now I will admit I'm a sucker for a good curly haircoat, but never let that overide the other points.

 

[KNERSIE]

Now I will admit I'm a sucker for a good curly haircoat

Always interesting how different conditions can tolerate different selection criteria.

I cull "good curly haircoats". We select for good smooth silky coats and don't tolerate any curly coats with good felting quality. Even with their wintercoats on the hair still needs to be soft and silky without any tight curls.

 

[jcarkie]

we pick from the oldest heifers that will fit in the breeding season, example feb thru mid march, the later heifers go to the fall group if we need them, then we look at the cows history, good mother, consistantly breed back quick, good milker, attitude.......
always pick a couple of extra heifers, some will not follow thru, even from your best cow doesn't mean she will breed or make what you want. i was reading an article about a ranch that keeps every heifer and breeds them.
we had a good cow that we kept a heifer out of, she made a great cow{not the prettiest}, raises a big calf, breeds back, etc....kept her next heifer out of a better bull {pretty heifer}, she would not get bred. last spring kept 6, end up with 4.

 

[SRBeef]

Thanks for the comments. Especially Knersie, that is a very good explanation and took some time to reply.

Do you often see an average cow have a really good, star-type heifer which develops into a better cow than the dam? Or should you just build on what you know works?

 

[jcarkie]

if you are using better bulls then he should be producing better females. when i am building my cow herd i select bulls for maternal traits. i want to see my herdsires dam so i know what his daughters will be like. the last 2 bulls we bought they had his dam and grandam & several half sisters in production.

 

[KNERSIE]

Do you often see an average cow have a really good, star-type heifer which develops into a better cow than the dam? Or should you just build on what you know works?

Yes, I do see it sometimes (not sure I'll go as far as calling them star-type heifers), but once you've identified a bull that brings that much to the table the improvement out of the better cows is much more substantial. With the quicker progress out of the better cows and more progress out of their heifers, the improved heifers out of the average and below average cows won't have much staying power if the herd is close to its maximum size. Hardly any point in retaining a heifer if she's only going to have 1 or 2 calves before being forced out by better genetics anyway.

If you're still a long way from maximum herd size then the situation is somewhat different, but don't ever compromise on either fertility or milk.

Progress from below average to good when it comes to maternal traits takes a very long time and will involve more misses than hits. Its much easier and quicker to start with milk and fertility and work on the rest than the other way round.

 

[SRBeef]

We keep all our calves to yearling, so picking out the better heifers is a lot easier. A lot is hidden by all that baby fat on a calf. The real performers show once mom isn't there for them anymore.

Usually we pick out the biggest (#'s, not weight) and best group of heifers that seem to complement each other. I can't remember the number of heifers we had to select from this spring, but we ended up with 5 or 6 heifers that seemed very close phenotypically. Shipped a couple this fall. So we end up with 4 real good heifers that we look forward to having in the herd.

We used to keep nearly all the heifers and give them a chance, but that can really work for you, or really hurt you as attrition rates in the first few years can be high, for lower cow prices. 2001 was a good year, a lot of those cows worked well for us and stayed around for a number of years.

I guess it depends if your expanding, decreasing or just maintaining your herd. We are in the maintenance phase right now. We would like to really improve the overall power and uniformity in our cowherd so our cull rates are high and replacements just enough to keep the numbers up.

Thanks Aaron. The idea of waiting till they are yearlings before making a final decision is a good idea. I did have some bangs vacinated (isn't there an age limit on bang's?) but will just watch the heifer candidates next summer.

As Knersie points out they may not grow linearly. We'll see. I appreciate everyone's comments.

 

[KNERSIE]

The idea of waiting till they are yearlings before making a final decision is a good idea. I did have some bangs vacinated (isn't there an age limit on bang's?)

In my opinion for my situation I'd rather keep the heifers with the early growth than keep those who only start growing after they get on feed or those who are just later blooming types. Culling is an ongoing process, but I'd rather start with a few early growers to many and cull more later than wait for the late starters to catch up before doing the culling.

On the Bangs vaccination, it depends which vaccine you use and the regulations in your state, in SA there is no age limit on RB51, but Strain 19 needs to be given before 8 months.

 

[randiliana]

The idea of waiting till they are yearlings before making a final decision is a good idea. I did have some bangs vacinated (isn't there an age limit on bang's?)

In my opinion for my situation I'd rather keep the heifers with the early growth than keep those who only start growing after they get on feed or those who are just later blooming types. Culling is an ongoing process, but I'd rather start with a few early growers to many and cull more later than wait for the late starters to catch up before doing the culling.

On the Bangs vaccination, it depends which vaccine you use and the regulations in your state, in SA there is no age limit on RB51, but Strain 19 needs to be given before 8 months.

I agree here, I guess it somewhat depends on what you are raising. For us, it is pounds of weaned calf. The heavier they are at weaning the more $ they bring to the table. It doesn't matter so much to me how they grow afterwards, as I don't get paid on that. Now, I am not saying that I don't want calves that grow well after weaning, cause if they don't the guy that bought them this year won't want them next year. But I don't want late bloomers. We keep the top end of the heifers, and cull off the ones that don't fit with what we are looking for, structural faults, slow growth (after weaning) and the ones that look like they are going to be too framey, etc.

 

[jfranseen]

This one is a little off subject, but it brings up a good point. When I was younger my uncle would breed every one of his dairy heifers to a hereford bull. Calving ease I suppose. My dad, also a dairy farmer at the time was disgusted. He believes that if you have any kind of a breeding program that the heifers (or bulls for that matter) from a first lactation cow should be your best genetics on the farm. Keep in mind that is if you are using AI or the best bulls you can afford. Back to beef. If your heifers don't raise the biggest calves compared to mature cows, but you still breed them the best you can don't over look their calves.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In my opinion for my situation I'd rather keep the heifers with the early growth than keep those who only start growing after they get on feed or those who are just later blooming types. Culling is an ongoing process, but I'd rather start with a few early growers to many and cull more later than wait for the late starters to catch up before doing the culling.

I had a fairly uniform group of 28 early growth black heifers when the low birth weight bull was turned in, but now things look a bit different:
The black simi-angus crosses continue to grow and have added some muscle. I think they will be big cows and the neighbor wants to buy them.
The Bwf cross continue to grow, have an average amount of muscle, and are mellow. I think they will make good fertile cows.
The grade angus are really variable - - some have slowed down and will likely be small at calving, most of them continue to grow, and two have not settled or are very late.

I will ship the two that have not settled. What is my best option with a 3 to 4 month bred heifers who is not "blooming"?

 

[dun]

I will ship the two that have not settled. What is my best option with a 3 to 4 month bred heifers who is not "blooming"?

Same as the opens

 

[cypressfarms]

I cull "good curly haircoats". We select for good smooth silky coats and don't tolerate any curly coats with good felting quality. Even with their wintercoats on the hair still needs to be soft and silky without any tight curls.

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic, but what factor does coat have in determining a productive cow?

 

[KNERSIE]

I cull "good curly haircoats". We select for good smooth silky coats and don't tolerate any curly coats with good felting quality. Even with their wintercoats on the hair still needs to be soft and silky without any tight curls.

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic, but what factor does coat have in determining a productive cow?

For the sake of not being quoted out of context I'll quote myself here, note the first bolded sentence.

Always interesting how different conditions can tolerate different selection criteria.

I cull "good curly haircoats". We select for good smooth silky coats and don't tolerate any curly coats with good felting quality. Even with their wintercoats on the hair still needs to be soft and silky without any tight curls.

The coat is the outward indication of how well adapted a cow is to her environment. Adapted cattle have a soft shiny coat, they are also the first to shed their winter coat in the spring and even in their winter coat the coat doesn't look dull and unthrifty. An adapted cow will always outproduce a not so adapted cow in the long run. As soon as a cow struggles, whether it is stress related, nutritional, environmentanl, etc it will show in the coat.

You could go further and try and determine why an animal isn't adapted to their environment, Prof JC Bonsma has done exactly that in his research and through years of scientific studies came to the conclusion that the felting quality of the hair was the best indication of how well adapted the animal is to its environment.

Depending on your climate you could probably get away with quite a variety of coat qualities to a certain degree, but if your climate is hot and subtropical with a high external parasite pressure nature will soon show you what works and what don't. (refer back to the sentence in bold)

If you can get the book "Benchmark Papers of Bonsma" there are quite a few articles on this subject explaining it much better than I do.

 

[HOSS]

I keep all of my heifers until they start to really fill out at about a year. I then make the keep / cull decision by looking at their mommas. If the momma is a good cow phenotypically and is a good momma to her baby then that heifer gets first look. Then I decide if that heifer has the potential to be better than her momma. If so she is a keeper. I am looking to improve over what I have when I decide to retain a heifer. If the heifer is better than her momma then I know that her sire is a herd improver. This latest calf crop is a good case in point. It looks like I will keep five heifers. I will know for sure in the spring. They appear to be on track to be better than momma.

 

[KNERSIE]

Didnt he also do experementing with salorns? I think he started the breed.

Not as far as I am aware, he developed the Bonsmara breed in SA out of Afrikaner, Hereford and shorthorn. I know he did some research in the USA, but not sure exactly what.