Schaff Angus Valley over 1,000 pnd weaning weights

[Aero]

You dont get you point across by calling someone a fool...

that part wasnt trying to get a point across; it was an opinion.

you cant compare calves from 1 ranch to the other. you have to take a group of cheap bulls and compare them to expensive bulls under exactly the same conditions in the same year.. there wont be a $20,000 difference.

 

[lakading]

So your "opinion" of "a fool - plain and simple in every case" would include people like Leo Baker who paid $15,000 for Final Answer? If so...I only see a fool on one side of that argument. And before you backtrack, remember that "in every case" are your words, not mine.

 

[Oldtimer]

I'm still convinced that the best bull(s) ever sired never saw a bull stud- or had his picture in the Angus Journal- but did his job in some commercial herd...I also think some of the smaller breeders- that actually know what there cattle will and can do-and they are not just a bunch of numbers-- offer folks some great herd sire opportunities- and are as good (or better) than some of the high dollar bulls...But those bulls don't have the emotion commotion promotion that makes them worth all those $ that goes with the Bull of the Month trend of today....
Paying high money for unproven bulls is just as risky as using unproven Bull of the Month bulls- and both can be about the same as shooting craps in Vegas....

 

[mncowboy]

Anyone got a ladder? Aero seems to have dug himself a hole and cant get out. :help: (<-Aero)
I'm still with plumber_greg, Frankie and lakading.
Nicely put to all three of you.

 

[Aero]

So your "opinion" of "a fool - plain and simple in every case" would include people like Leo Baker who paid $15,000 for Final Answer?

yep, it's too much risk in one animal. do you know how many bulls are bought to be the next great one and never sell a straw? that's just playing the lottery. it was a foolish investment and he got lucky. if he bought the same animal this year, he probably couldnt sell a straw with 598 staring at all of the pedigree viewers.

 

[lakading]

Yeah, I doubt he's sold enough sons & daughters to justify the investment. :roll: :roll: :roll:

By the way...how much did New Market cost?

 

[Aero]

Yeah, I doubt he's sold enough sons & daughters to justify the investment. :roll: :roll: :roll:

By the way...how much did New Market cost?

it's easy to say it was a good investment later. everybody thinks the lottery winner made a good investment after they win.

$7500 six years ago. wasnt my decision, he did better than most bulls bought the same way and he pretty much broke even over his time here.

if above average performance means breaking even while risking a lot in the beginning, it's a bad investment.

 

[3waycross]

Yeah, I doubt he's sold enough sons & daughters to justify the investment. :roll: :roll: :roll:

By the way...how much did New Market cost?

it's easy to say it was a good investment later. everybody thinks the lottery winner made a good investment after they win.

$7500 six years ago. wasnt my decision, he did better than most bulls bought the same way and he pretty much broke even over his time here.

if above average performance means breaking even while risking a lot in the beginning, it's a bad investment.

NOT being a smarta$$ but if no one takes a chance then how do great advances get made. It seems like the concept of "NO GUTS NO GLORY" has to come into play at some point. If folks aren't out there trying to be the guy to own that next breed changer bull then how will it happen. The best should and will always cost more. Isn't that the fundamental precept of a market economy?

 

[Aero]

If folks aren't out there trying to be the guy to own that next breed changer bull then how will it happen.

why does everyone want to change breeds?

 

[3waycross]

If folks aren't out there trying to be the guy to own that next breed changer bull then how will it happen.

why does everyone want to change breeds?

My best guess would be that there is no such thing as staying the same. You are either going forward or backward. Why would you not want to constantly improve.

If you don't Aero then don't but I fail to see how you can tell others that they shouldn't

 

[giftedcowboy]

What does a 1000lb weaning weight on a Pruebred bull equate to a commercial man in a real world grass situation??? HMMMMMM

 

[Oldtimer]

If folks aren't out there trying to be the guy to own that next breed changer bull then how will it happen.

why does everyone want to change breeds?

My best guess would be that there is no such thing as staying the same. You are either going forward or backward. Why would you not want to constantly improve.

If you don't Aero then don't but I fail to see how you can tell others that they shouldn't

If all things stay the same (the grass/pasture stays the same- still get the average 11.5 inches of precip a year- waterholes still miles apart by late summer- you don't put a lot of cost into extra feed- etc. etc.)---- How much further forward can these "breed changers" go-- and how much will this single trait (1000 lb weaning weights) selection effect all the other qualitites of the cattle (maternal, efficiency,fertility, mobility, etc. etc.) :???:

 

[Jovid]

What does a 1000lb weaning weight on a Pruebred bull equate to a commercial man in a real world grass situation??? HMMMMMM

What does a 1000 lb weaning weight bull equate to anyone in the real world?

I will answer that......not much

 

[Aero]

Why would you not want to constantly improve.

If you don't Aero then don't but I fail to see how you can tell others that they shouldn't

i am all for improving my animals, but weaning weights mean very little. try to look at things in a broader sense: focus on profit, not just one trait. the fastest way to improve profit is to cut out expenses and labor. anybody can significantly increase income, few can significantly improve profit. big EPD terminal bulls (90% of the Angus breed) are around every corner; they have their place in making meat for the rail.

truly maternal bulls out of a stabilized type are the real needle in the haystack. how can you expect a bull to produce a uniform calf crop when you select for the most different/heterozygous "breed changers"? do you think it's an improvement that Angus have now moved into the continental role for breeds? heck, the continentals were already doing the same thing 40 years ago. what do you think made Angus grow so quickly in market share (other than marketing)? the very traits that are being thrown out the window for the breed changers.

dont hold so tightly to the quo.

 

[3waycross]

Why would you not want to constantly improve.

If you don't Aero then don't but I fail to see how you can tell others that they shouldn't

i am all for improving my animals, but weaning weights mean very little. try to look at things in a broader sense: focus on profit, not just one trait. the fastest way to improve profit is to cut out expenses and labor. anybody can significantly increase income, few can significantly improve profit. big EPD terminal bulls (90% of the Angus breed) are around every corner; they have their place in making meat for the rail.

truly maternal bulls out of a stabilized type are the real needle in the haystack. how can you expect a bull to produce a uniform calf crop when you select for the most different/heterozygous "breed changers"? do you think it's an improvement that Angus have now moved into the continental role for breeds? heck, the continentals were already doing the same thing 40 years ago. what do you think made Angus grow so quickly in market share (other than marketing)? the very traits that are being thrown out the window for the breed changers.

dont hold so tightly to the quo.

You are preaching to the choir. I DO NOT care personally about 1000lb weaning weights. But if someone else wants to select for them then at some point I might see a use for a few straws of that semen as an ingrediant in a longer term process. Not an end result. At least not for me.

 

[EAT BEEF]

I think you'll make more money improving your grass than you ever will improveing your cows.

 

[BRG]

I think you are all only looking at 1 thing that Schaff does and that is the weaning weight of 1000 lbs area. This herd does more than just that. They have one of the best uddered, and deepest bodied cow herds I have ever seen. (I have seen alot of them) Yes they wean off heavy calves, but they do lots of other good things for the breed. They may not work everywhere, but they work for them and alot of other ranches around the country.

 

[Jim62]

Hmmmmmmmm.......... I weaned 3 calves just last fall that weighed over 1000 pounds. Really made me proud.

Two @ 350 and one @ 375. :banana: :tiphat:

 

[3waycross]

Hmmmmmmmm.......... I weaned 3 calves just last fall that weighed over 1000 pounds. Really made me proud.

Two @ 350 and one @ 375. :banana: :tiphat:

Bragger :clap: :clap: :tiphat:

 

[TexasBred]

Hmmmmmmmm.......... I weaned 3 calves just last fall that weighed over 1000 pounds. Really made me proud.

Two @ 350 and one @ 375. :banana: :tiphat:

Next lie you're gonna tell is that the only had mama's milk. I know there had to be a lot of creep in there to get those weights. :nod: