Replacement heifer selection

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bandit80

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Ok folks, I am seeking your advice, and bear with me because this might get kind of long. I have always been in the habit of retaining my own heifers to put back in the herd. Have done so ever since I started raising cattle. I like having the option of picking the "top" heifers and selecting for the most desirable traits and characteristics.

My situation is this. I do not own any of the pasture ground my cattle are on. It is all rented. My risk of losing any of this rented ground is basically zero, except for one of my summer pastures where approximately half of my herd goes to during the grazing season, April-October. With that said, this pasture is the lesser of all of my pastures. It is almost entirely fescue, complete with endophyte, and no clover or other legumes in the mix. It does have 1/4 of the pasture in smooth bromegrass. I like fescue for early spring and fall grazing, but it is not good from about mid June-early September. This was a wet year for us, and the grass stayed pretty green all summer, but the fescue doesn't do much in the summer because of the heat. Every year, the calves off of the mainly fescue pasture weigh less than my other calves off of different pastures. I have not done any improvements to this pasture other than maintenance and clearing scattered hedge trees. Have not attempted to plant any legumes. Part of this pasture lays real nice and could easily be planted to a summer annual for grazing in the summer slump. But, I hesitate to make many improvements if I might not have the pasture next year.

I have not made as much of an improvement in my weaning weights the last 5 years as I would like, and I have been selecting for improved weaning weights for several years. Part of the lack of improvement, I believe, is because of the one pasture. I believe if some improvements were made, I might see an increase. However, I think part of it may be my own doing, and this is where I need your opinions. By retaining heifers that potentially have thier own birth to weaning growth supressed by the fescue from decreased milk production in their mothers, will their ability to raise calves that will be above my target also be supressed?? In other words, if I retain heifers that are below my target for weaning weight, will they have the ability to raise a calf that will meet or exceed my target? I can proudly say, (I think) that over half of my herd are animals I have retained, but maybe that is not the best thing. Maybe it would be better to sell my own heifers and buy some whose individual performance meets or exceeds my expectations and desires.

Thoughts?
 
It's always better to use heifers that was raised under your own conditions or worse. The heifers that performed adequately under tough conditions as calves will just perform better when under more favourable conditions.

You'll be better off (in terms of herd quality, not neccesarily your back pocket in the shortterm) to retain your own better heifers out of your best adapted cows. Buying "soft" heifers is more than likely going to be a disappointment as soon as the first hardship hits them.
 
Well first off what IS your weaning weights??? We really need the number to evaluate IF this is really a problem worth chasing. My generic guess (based on very little real info about your real world situation) is that you have hit an environmental/nutritional limit and that new genetics PROBABLY are going to perform around the level of your existing herd (or worse). I have to confess that I have never even been in Kansas before; but if there is no risk in losing the lease on this pasture why not try to drill in white, red, or crimson clover?? I know that is expensive; but less so than buying a whole set of replacement heifers (or pairs) every year. If you think your heifers are being stunted, what is the stocking rate??? Is there any way to otherwise improve the nutrition available to the retained heifers?
 
The fly in the ointment of keeping heifers that are below your target is not knowing the cause. Was it the fescue, was it the cow, was it just the genes?
KNERSIE has it right about the best adapted heifers you've raised are in all probability going to do better then bought in heifers.
 
If you think your heifers are being stunted, what is the stocking rate???

Living in an area where droughts aren't exactly rarities I've seen that cattle don't get stunted permanently as easily as everyone makes it out to be. There is still compensatory growth that will make up for most of the tough times the heifers had to endure when young.

Even in prolonged droughts (lasting more than 1 year) they will eventually bounce back and when mature they'll be very similar in size to those raised under better conditions. Only difference really is that they'll reach mature weight at 4 years old instead of 3.

If the said heifers were so poor to the point of permanent damage being done surely visual appraisal would have eliminated them form being considered as replacement candidates.
 
KNERSIE":2woffwxi said:
It's always better to use heifers that was raised under your own conditions or worse. The heifers that performed adequately under tough conditions as calves will just perform better when under more favourable conditions.


That is my philosophy as well. Sold a 2 year old bred heifer a half dozen years ago. She had a terrible mother, had a 205 of 285 lbs. and a 365 of around 600 lbs. I had a good feeling about her though. The first calf she had (heifer) was bigger than any other of the calves on the buyer's place, at about 700 lbs at 6 months of age. Mind you, the cow was only about 1100 lbs, compared to his average cow weight of 1600-2000 lbs. The buyer couldn't believe how well she did. She has continued to be that way ever since, and has since been sold to another fella who says her daughters are the same way. The 2nd buyer actually took her and her calf to a show one year and nailed a bunch of awards.

It's not all about weaning weights. :cowboy:
 
i think your throwing away some good weaned heifers because they dont weigh as much as your other heifers.an you just got through saying the lighter heifers mommas grazed the fescue pasture.
 
I think the most important point to remember here is bottom line. While you've kept your cattle on fescue you probably have fed less hay. So a reduction in weaning weights may not represent a net loss.
 
Thanks for everyone's responses. I had never even considered buying new heifers until this year, so I'm glad everyone said to keep on keeping on. I feel like I have done a good job of improving my herd genetically and phenotypically, while improving traits such as carcass, fertility, calving problems, (have disappeared except for the occasional malpresentation) and disposition.

Brandon - My average weaning weights off of this one particular pasture this year was 485lbs, and the average age of the calves was 198 days. Some of the heifers I would like to keep based on genetics and phenotype were slightly below that average. The calves were fairly uniform, however, weighing from 435 to 565. I haven't yet weaned my remaining calves, but hope to do so this weekend. Just guessing, one group of steers and heifers will beat that 485 mark by 75-100 lbs or so, and the other smaller pasture of all bull calves will be better than the other two. One bull that will be cut won't weigh 6, but the others will.
 
Sounds to me like you might be in a good position to run your own little experiment. If the cows get split up the same way each year and cows/calves are ear tagged, why not put half of each group in one pasture and half in the other pasture? You can track weights and then see if the "lesser" pastures bring down the "better" group as well. You then have more information to decide if it is strictly environmental or genetic (cows or bulls) etc.
 
485 lbs on 198 days is mediocre. If you were AT 585 lbs, I don't know that it would be worth it chasing another 20 lbs; but I suspect that producers all over Kansas are doing better than 550 lbs so I think improving the number IS a worthwhile goal. I don't think that that is so light though that it will permanently "stunt" a heifer. What about cow body condition? Do you body condition score your cows? Are these crossbred or straightbred calves? What breed(s)?
 
Brandonm22":2lqacml1 said:
485 lbs on 198 days is mediocre.
Yes, it is. I has improved over the last 6-7 years when I really started paying close attention to what the heck I was doing, but not yet to my target. I want my heifers to be in the 550+ range, and bulls ought to be 650+. Most of my bull calves are pretty close, but still some improvement to be made.

Brandonm22":2lqacml1 said:
What about cow body condition? Do you body condition score your cows? Are these crossbred or straightbred calves? What breed(s)?

Yes and yes. BCS has never really been a problem for any of my cows. They can all maintain and thrive on minimal inputs, but the cows from this one particular pasture always look a little rough starting in August and lasting until late September. Once the calves are weaned, they have plenty of green grass to put the flesh back on. My herd consists of Gelbvieh and balancers, and one smaller group of Angus and Angus cross commercial cows.
 
I agree with others in the stunting is usually a temporary issue. I have had several bottle calves that can prove that. I would not really worry about the cows as much as I would worry about maybe buying a new terminal bull. I have always thought one should use two different types of bulls. One for replacements and one for terminal. I would not build a herd of these fast gainers for replacements. This can lead to frame creep and high cost cows. Given that it sounds as though your replacements would be just fine. Just go out and find the right bull to put on them.
 
TNMasterBeefProducer":3omca4c9 said:
Again what are the bulls weaning weights that you are using? Do you know the cow's performance data? Did the cows wean heavy?

I would have to look to see what the bull's individual weaning weights were. It seems one had an adj ww of over 700, and the other two were in the 6 range, but I would have to check to be sure. Over half of the cows in my herd are from my own retention. So, some hit my target weight, and others not quite. I think it is just a matter of the environment the more I think about it. I have bought some good bred females before that were raised on fescue, and they fall right in line with the ones I have raised. I think I'm maybe just over analyzing things.
 
Well, you aren't going to get any more significant boost from cross breeding (dang that is the EASY solution for a lot of people). IF you are buying good bulls changing genetics shouldn't do much. You say the cows get ragged out there. It might be worth it to have a nutritionist look at your mineral program (you certainly aren't getting much from what minerals you ARE buying). I don't want to tell you what to do with your grass, but at 485 lbs I think adding legumes to the mix WOULD pay.
 
It seems pretty simple to me.The quality of grass isn't letting them reach their genetic growth potential.So I guess it comes down to if the extra lbs of ww is going to make you more than the cost of improving the grass.As a seedstock producer I think you have two ways of looking at the situation. 1 the harder you are on the cows the easier it is to sort out the most efficient cows or 2 the bigger and flesher calves might sell better.It really just comes down to what your customer base is after and what you want to acomplish with your herd.
 
For a quick test you could try creep feeding or putting out a Nutrilix type supplement in the poor pasture and see if it gives you the boost your looking for. If it helps then your pretty sure doing the work on the pasture would be money well spent.
 

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