Well said. There is more than one way to skin this cat. Every one has to choose which is best for them and their operation.
Replacement females???
- Thread starter Sotex
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Twisted
Well-known member
I really don't have a dog in this hunt because I both buy in and keep, I really hate that I missed this one, 10 pair w/5 3-ways:
There are those many ways to skin that cat. Thankfully there are guys making for maternal females to buy.
Often what is missed in this though, is that many producers don't fully account for the costs of retaining females to that first and second calf. They're the most expensive, riskiest animals on the place.
If you fully understand those costs and then decide to go that route all the power to you. But it's a far more complex decision than some would make it seem.
Travlr
Well-known member
That's the kind of math my customers were using when they bought the replacement heifers I was supplying to them... at a better profit margin than if I was selling the heifers at weaning. They used a sales pitch on themselves and I didn't have to. LOL... And they never seemed to figure out that I was making money on their lack of math skills.
I get in too many arguments already on these threads, so I'll let you figure it out yourself. I'll give you a clue though. One of the premises is wrong.
That goes both ways. Far too many people don't account for the time and money to go to sales and come home empty, or the learning curve, or the percentage that don't work out, or risk associated with unknown cattle. Location plays a huge role also as to what is available at any given time, also.
That's what cowboy math is for. Any one of us can take the same basic numbers and screw them up in whatever favor we want to prove the point we are trying to make.
Well the only reason we got them, was Zeke finding and bringing home that stray Jeresy. And no, we didn't think with our heads.. we just felt sorry for Zeke since his traumatic event, and Gail made him happier than he had seemed since that happened to him and Mattie. But, with that Jersey, the best thing we could breed her to to get the most valuable calf was a brahma. and that didn't cost anything. Scott's neighbor with the red Br bull enjoys hunting our quail and rabbit, behind our dogs. Just didn't figure on not being able to sell Gail's calf because of Zeke. Even though someone on here did buy her, and asked Zeke if he would keep it for them.The 6 month heifers here are not bringing $3.00 a lb... so that is not a true example... they are in the $2.-2.30 range... so at 500 lbs she would be worth... 1200, less the amount of feed ALREADY in her at that point... so not near as big a "value" to sell... even if she is on the cow and sold off at 500 lbs... she then has to "pay for the cost of keeping the cow" first... so you can't add on that to the cost of keeping her to her first calf cost of 1750.... if you keep her, she has not "paid for the cost of keeping the cow" in money, like a steer would...but she still has that value that can be sold...
No thank you... I will not buy bred heifers again... BTDT and have had several bad experiences with them... will take my chances with my own, that I "cherry pick" to keep...
And @Warren Allison , you keep preaching about keeping these F1 heifer calves off these couple of cows to build a herd for Zeke... by your own words it would be cheaper to go buy the 20 head you feel he needs; and not breed them AI with more expensive sexed semen, then raise them and breed them and not get a saleable calf off them until 30 months.....
The Milking Shorthorn and the two 1/2 jerseys were a result, again, of thinking with my heart instead of my head. I would have given both of those people the same amount of money`anyway, but they didn't want to accept charity, and this gave them a way to keep their dignity. Those three are Ai'ed to the grey polled sexed semen Brahma bull Dan has in the tank, and didn't cost me a dime. The G-H, Scott bought at a good price, and we were getting her bred to the neighbor's red Brahma for free too, but turned out she was already bred to a yearling Gyr by accident. But, 4 of them now live with other people, who are going to give us back a half-Brahma heifer at weaning each year. But you are right: For what those 5 costs me, I could have gave him 21 Corr cows, that would have given him $25k to $30k worth of calves (at today's prices) each year, with no work and no inputs. But Mexican raised Corr cows just don't make very good pets! And at the first sign of Zeke losing interest in them, I can sell those 1/2 brahma x 1/2 diary heifers/cows easily. Building him a 23 herd of 1/2 Brahmas is worst case scenario. From now on, he won't see the other 4 each year til they come home weaned and are turned out on pasture And we can sell them each year, and won't have to fool with anything but Gail's heifer each year. And it will go to the pasture with the others at weaning, and when they are breeding age, will be bred to whatever black bulls we are breeding the Corrs too. Those calves will definitely be sold each year! We just hope that if we don't feed her, we won't have to put another calf on her each year. And I don't follow what you are saying about the costs. Scenario 1, you sell the heifer for $1200, and buy a replacement for $2500. You have $1300 in a cow that will give birth in 9 mos, wean a calf to sell in 15 months, has another in 12 mos to wean in 6 more. Two calves sold in 30 months. Scenario 2, you keep her and spend $1750 in 30 month before you have 1 calf to sell? What am I missing in these 2 equations?
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
Yep. 4-8 hours one way to a sale to shop is expensive and a huge time investment weather you buy or come home empty. Trucking those girls home is expensive.
Bring one home with Johnes, BVD, Trich, anaplasmosis, etc and introduce it to your herd? What is the economic impact of that?
salebarn junkie
Well-known member
6
we raise our own replacements but reading through the replies see your getting some very good input. Everyone needs to do what works best for themselves in their individual operation. We are purebred breeders so retaining heifers and propagating genetic lines makes good sense for us. I love seeing my heifers develop into cows it doesn't always work out but the failures teach you every bit as much as the successes. Best of luck to you whichever direction you determine is right for you.
That was a sure enough good buy! Is this an auction close to where you live?
Twisted
Well-known member
Yep, 12 miles
Sotex
Member
Sounds like each has their own preference and if it works then there's nothing wrong with it.
My favorites currently are the quarter ears. I also have a few angus or Brangus mutts that produce a decent calf every year. I don't do this for a living so I do enjoy developing my own herd.
As my cows get a little older I have contemplated having them all AI'd to a Bradford bull (Sexed Semen) and trying to get all heifer calves that year.
My favorites currently are the quarter ears. I also have a few angus or Brangus mutts that produce a decent calf every year. I don't do this for a living so I do enjoy developing my own herd.
As my cows get a little older I have contemplated having them all AI'd to a Bradford bull (Sexed Semen) and trying to get all heifer calves that year.
Travlr
Well-known member
$2800 a pair and it looked like the calves (looked like pretty decent calves) would be big enough to sell off at (?)$3.00/400#, and give then a month or so and even more. Yeah, worth the money.
And, a herd that was meticulously put together by buying the best cows and heifers available, has at least equally, if not a better, chance of being much better than a herd of retained heifers. .
That is exactly the 2 reasons that people don't retain heifers. That, and they don't want to feed something for 2 and 1/2 years with no return. I find it amusing that some of the people that think retaining heifers and waiting those 2 and a half years is the best way, are the same ones that spout off how they "culled" a cow because she calved a month later than the others.! Or cull a cow because her calf died, because they don't want to wait 9 months to get another one!
or are perfectly happy with an average herd or really don't know excellent cattle to start with.
I find this to be more true amongst those who are in to the retaining thing. With commercial breeders...not seedstock. producers. Especially with the smaller operators, hobby ranchers, etc. Anyone can not carry a calf to the sale, and let it get bred . But it takes a lot of knowledge and years of experience, to be able to successfully buy good cattle.
This old girl is 14, due with her 13th calf 3/7. Look at her feet and udder. Perfect. Bless her heart, she only has 3 teeth left but maintains condition. Zero health issues. So far, she's only given me 4 heifers and I've kept them all. Her 6th calf is also due 3/7, her 8th calf is due 3/17 and her 9th calf was due 3/9 but had an 80 lb. heifer yesterday (her 3rd). I retained her 12th calf last year and she'll be bred in May.
How much does it cost to retain one of her heifers? I don't know and I don't care. Because she and her lineage have made me a lot of money. Oh, and I did keep one of her bull calves intact and sold him private treaty; they had him 7 years.
How much does it cost to retain one of her heifers? I don't know and I don't care. Because she and her lineage have made me a lot of money. Oh, and I did keep one of her bull calves intact and sold him private treaty; they had him 7 years.
Take " time of purchase" out of the above statements, and put in "time of weaning/retention", and it is just as valid a question.
All of this date and information is usually readily available on replacements you buy from people in the replacement heifer business.
A lot of times, even more in depth and accurate than people know about their own commercial cows...depending, of course, on how long they have had their herd and how detailed their record keeping is.
Honestly, I do get it why some people want to raise their own replacement commercial heifers. I just take exception, and call BS, to the definitive statements by some, that raising your own is the only way, and/or the best way and/or the cheapest way, to get quality replacements.
In all this, I'm curious why having an average cow herd is a bad thing, especially if that average cow calves out an average weight calf year after year after year.
That isn't average.
That's a perfect cow.
That isn't average.
That's a perfect cow.
Josher
Well-known member
I don't need to mention the same arguments for keeping your own replacements again but another good reason is the consistency you get from keeping your own. They come from a herd that is similarly bred and adapted to your management style and there bred to the same type of bulls. The quality and consistency will earn you a premium and a reputation which is hard to put a value on. You just can't get that consistency most places even if you're the most talented cattle buyer.
Having said that I've sold bred heifers for 7 years now and it's worked well for me AND my customers. I dont waste time trying to convince them it would be cheaper to raise their own. Would be bad for my business. But also we would probably both be right doing what we are doing. They are better off buying and I am better off raising my own and selling the extras.
Having said that I've sold bred heifers for 7 years now and it's worked well for me AND my customers. I dont waste time trying to convince them it would be cheaper to raise their own. Would be bad for my business. But also we would probably both be right doing what we are doing. They are better off buying and I am better off raising my own and selling the extras.
SDgrampa
Well-known member
I've played that game. It is so realistic you can even lose money like in real life!
