Range cow behaviour question

[bayhorse]

Do any of ya'll have experience with real ranch/ range raised cattle? If you do then maybe you can help me out.

I have this cow that has gone totally nuts since she calved, it is not even safe to be in the same acre of pasture as her or the calf. She has charged us when approached and will ram panel fences if we sneak her calf onto the other side to treat him. If there are no people around she doesn't care where her calf is and leaves him all the time, he could get eaten by a dog for all she cares.

The calf is two weeks old now and the cow has only gotten worse. This might not have been a problem, but the calf is sick (weird weather swings ever since he was born) and needs daily treatment.

This is her second calf, she didn't act like this with the first, but the tendancy was probably there already.

Anyway, to my question, is this considered normal protectiveness for ranch (range) cows? Do real ranchers actually expect this #%^&@ ? A small farmer would never tolerate such meanness.

I'm getting rid of her one way or another. If a ranch can handle her then I would sell her as beef cow. If they wouldn't tolerate this then she would go as just beef.

The only reason she isn't already beefed is that she is a registered Hereford, whose sire is a national show champion. I won her in a contest, she came from a ranch at about 10 months old, but had been around people only enough to be halter broke at weaning (but still wild). So she was range raised, I guess, and the worst thing I ever won!

We have never had a cow act like her, and we have cows that were raised on their mothers, so they weren't all that tame, but not like this.

Thanks.

 

[jersey lilly]

Well, I like a mama that'll protect her calf. Show's she's doin her job. Whether that be against humans, or preditors. Our cows leave their calves layin all the time. I call it "parkin em" they will lay it down somewhere, where it's relatively safe, and go off grazing, for hours at a time. Sometimes they leave them with another cow, "the baby sitter". As long as the calf is gettin his dinner, I woudlnt worry bout it.
As for havin to dr the calf, and the mama is wantin to eat yer lunch, that's her job, you just hafta be craftier at gittin in and doin your job and gettin back out again.

 

[alabama]

If she was my cow, she would get a ride on the next thing smoking headed tword the stock yard.

 

[Bez!]

Do any of ya'll have experience with real ranch/ range raised cattle? If you do then maybe you can help me out.

I have this cow that has gone totally nuts since she calved, it is not even safe to be in the same acre of pasture as her or the calf. She has charged us when approached and will ram panel fences if we sneak her calf onto the other side to treat him. If there are no people around she doesn't care where her calf is and leaves him all the time, he could get eaten by a dog for all she cares.

The calf is two weeks old now and the cow has only gotten worse. This might not have been a problem, but the calf is sick (weird weather swings ever since he was born) and needs daily treatment.

This is her second calf, she didn't act like this with the first, but the tendancy was probably there already.

Anyway, to my question, is this considered normal protectiveness for ranch (range) cows? Do real ranchers actually expect this #%^&@ ? A small farmer would never tolerate such meanness.

I'm getting rid of her one way or another. If a ranch can handle her then I would sell her as beef cow. If they wouldn't tolerate this then she would go as just beef.

The only reason she isn't already beefed is that she is a registered Hereford, whose sire is a national show champion. I won her in a contest, she came from a ranch at about 10 months old, but had been around people only enough to be halter broke at weaning (but still wild). So she was range raised, I guess, and the worst thing I ever won!

We have never had a cow act like her, and we have cows that were raised on their mothers, so they weren't all that tame, but not like this.

Thanks.

Well, here we go.

Your biggest mistake is in thinking she is valuable because she has papers. So in essence you are part of the problem.

In fact she is a piece of schitzen that walks on 4 legs.

This animal has NOT gone nuts. You just think that way. In fact she is doing what her genetics demand her to do.

Her breeding produced this. You want to breed her and try again? Hope you said no to that one. Her calf may very well be the same. Toss it as well.

On the range this can be an admired trait and I have indeed got a few of these on the place. But I can handle them - a newbie probably not.

I recently sold some bred cows to a drover. He needed a few to fill some private sales - and he liked one of these cows a whole bunch.

The one he liked is not - repeat not - something I would sell to a person with a small holding. And I told him so. That cow could create a funeral. So she will go into the drovers own herd.

So, here is what you do - if you are serious - but I suspect you might not.

You take that cow and catch her up. You ship her - and not for breeding purposes. If she goes for breeding you are perpetuating the trouble, you are endangering yet another unsuspecting soul.

Forget about fattening her up - ship her "general cargo" and be happy if you get a couple bucks for her.

Or you ship her to a ranch that will value this behavious - and there very few indeed who will like it.

By the way - this behavious is not likely to improve with time. The only way she will be even the slightest bit approachable will be when the calf is gone. Oh, are you the lucky soul who gets to tag, vaccinate and "steal" her calf? Have fun!

Personally if she is that dangerous I might just shoot her - take the steaks out of her and feed the rest to the coyotes. More than a few of us have done that in our lives.

Choices - life is nothing but choices. Make yours and live with them.

Regards,

Bez!

 

[TheBullLady]

I'm betting that most of that behaviour is because her calf is sick. Cows know when their calves are not 100%, and she probably thinks your responsible, since you're treating it constantly.

I have a Brahman cow that has always been gentle, and always let us mess with her calves from birth. Four years ago we lost seven calves to arsenic poisoning. Her calf, that was only about 6 weeks old, was one of the calves that was sick (not dead) when we found it. We threw it into a trailer and headed to A & M with it.. thinking we'd come back and get the cow. The calf died at A & M, and she has NEVER forgotten it. She is very protective of her calves now! After they're a month or two old, she won't mind if we get close to them. Go figure.

 

[jersey lilly]

See that's my point, she's only doin what she feels is necessary to protect her calf. People!!!!! These are NOT pets!!!! It's their natural instinct to protect. If you want a cow that will let you walk up to her calf out in the pasture and not even blow at you once, go right ahead, those calves will be the first one's eatin by a coyote, buzzard, dog, or whatever preditor you may have in your area. NO Thanks!!! Gimme some cows that wanna do their job. Yes it makes our job a lil more difficult, and you hafta either be real quick to tag, or whatever your doin, or pen it where mama can't get to you. There's alot of our calves in the pasture right now that don't have tags in their ears.....there's a reason for that, it's cuz mama has taught them well, ya can't walk up on em, they run. So they'll get a tag when the whole herd is penned and worked in a month or so, cows sorted off to another pen or turned out, and calves worked last. That way we don't hafta deal with the cows snortin and blowin on our back pockets.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would load that fighting slut for the first auction barn and sell her for hamburger along with the calf.
Dispostion will get you a ride out of here everytime.
You can take those papers and put them on a roll where you could get some use out of them. If you are a seedstock producer I would never buy from someone that retains that type of genetics in there herd.

 

[IL Rancher]

There are too many cows out there that are fine with people but hell on predators to put up with ones that try to take you out. Every cow that comes at me in the least during calving gets put on the list.. Life is to short to have it shortened by a nasty arsed cow.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Plenty of that type of cattle in the deep South. I've got a hematoma on my shin the size of a baseball from one recently. And they teach cowboys how to build better fences too. (Or how to fix them faster maybe?) Definitely not the type of cattle for your back yard. Way too many gentle mommas available. If you ever get her loaded, don't open the gate until your backed in at the salebarn.

 

[msscamp]

See that's my point, she's only doin what she feels is necessary to protect her calf. People!!!!! These are NOT pets!!!! It's their natural instinct to protect. If you want a cow that will let you walk up to her calf out in the pasture and not even blow at you once, go right ahead, those calves will be the first one's eatin by a coyote, buzzard, dog, or whatever preditor you may have in your area.

I beg to differ! 99.9% of our cows I can run in the alleyway, sort the calf off the cow (yep, I'm a wimp!) tag the calf, let the calf back out with his mom and run them out in the pasture without a problem in the world. The other .01% requires Dad assistance and they are caught in the corral with their mother, something they will not allow me to do, tagged and ear-marked. BUT, let a dog, coyote, or strange person walk into that pasture and it's a whole 'nother story! A cow does NOT have to be a rip to be a good momma.

 

[msscamp]

Anyway, to my question, is this considered normal protectiveness for ranch (range) cows? Do real ranchers actually expect this #%^&@ ?
No!

I'm getting rid of her one way or another. If a ranch can handle her then I would sell her as beef cow. If they wouldn't tolerate this then she would go as just beef.

Don't you dare sell your problem cow to some unsuspecting buyer! You know she's a rip when she calves (chances are it will only get worse, too), tell them at the salebarn or tell any prospective buyers via private treaty!

The only reason she isn't already beefed is that she is a registered Hereford, whose sire is a national show champion.

And that makes a difference because? A nasty-dispositioned cow is just that, regardless of whether she is registered or not.

Thanks.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

See that's my point, she's only doin what she feels is necessary to protect her calf. People!!!!! These are NOT pets!!!! It's their natural instinct to protect. If you want a cow that will let you walk up to her calf out in the pasture and not even blow at you once, go right ahead, those calves will be the first one's eatin by a coyote, buzzard, dog, or whatever preditor you may have in your area. NO Thanks!!! Gimme some cows that wanna do their job. Yes it makes our job a lil more difficult, and you hafta either be real quick to tag, or whatever your doin, or pen it where mama can't get to you. There's alot of our calves in the pasture right now that don't have tags in their ears.....there's a reason for that, it's cuz mama has taught them well, ya can't walk up on em, they run. So they'll get a tag when the whole herd is penned and worked in a month or so, cows sorted off to another pen or turned out, and calves worked last. That way we don't hafta deal with the cows snortin and blowin on our back pockets.

I disagree. Every cow that I have will allow me to weigh and handle her newborn calf, but you ought to see the boss cow blow her nose on a fleeing dog. The ironic part of this thread is that the cow is a Hereford, the classic model of docility. It goes to show that you can get a nutcase in every breed.

 

[mnmtranching]

bayhorse, Nope not a problem with ranch cattle. I handled more then 100 newborn calves this Spring not one time was I in danger. You can tell what your replacement heifers will be like by being around them. One of the things thats nice about saving your own.

As far as your cow, do what ever it takes to get her out of there, kill her on the spot for hamburger. If you get her to the salebarn she will attack everything that moves. [the salebarn folks will handle it] No one will want her except to kill.

Put the calf on milk replacer and medication, and if its a heifer don't keep it for a mother cow, she will most likely be just like her mama.

mnmt

 

[ENNOT]

Those type of cattle are not worth messing with. There is no reason to have to deal with cows like that when you're trying to process a calf. All this talk about being better mother's is a bunch of crap also. We have cows that are worked with dogs, calve when the coyotes are howling, and several other "real ranch" examples and we process and field doctor their calves just fine. I have cows that will stand 10 feet away while you process their calf and they raise as good a calf as those that sit right over your shoulder sniffin the whole time.

If a cow even attempts to run us off we mark her down. We have more important things to do than having more than one person out there to process calves.

I would do like Caustic says, send the rip to the sale for butcher price. She's not doing to be a good mother, she's doing it to be a problem. And I bet you can look on your "papers" and find the problem.

 

[bayhorse]

Thanks for all the replies.

To clarify, I don't think she is valuable just because she has papers, what I was wondering is if what she does is routine for range cows. If ranchers thought it normal behavior then I would be foolish to sell for beef price when I could get breeding price out of her. You know, one person's trash is another's treasure? The traits important to me may or may not be important to a large producer, personally I think she is quite useless.

Just to add, oddly enough, her first calf (a bull now two years old), is very docile. This calf is also a bull.

And I have no intention of selling her to anyone except those with the experience to realize what "protective" means.

I thought about asking her breeder if he wanted her back, rebred but sans current calf.

We took the calf of yesterday so we could treat him more easily, but he won't suck a bottle, so we are having to tube feed him, which won't work forever. He has something like shipping fever, I guess from the weather stress.

 

[Aero]

The calf is two weeks old now and the cow has only gotten worse.

this is enough for me to to throw the Cull Immediately flag.

nobody (rancher or not) has time for this.

 

[msscamp]

Thanks for all the replies.

To clarify, I don't think she is valuable just because she has papers, what I was wondering is if what she does is routine for range cows. If ranchers thought it normal behavior then I would be foolish to sell for beef price when I could get breeding price out of her. You know, one person's trash is another's treasure? The traits important to me may or may not be important to a large producer, personally I think she is quite useless.

Just to add, oddly enough, her first calf (a bull now two years old), is very docile. This calf is also a bull.

And I have no intention of selling her to anyone except those with the experience to realize what "protective" means.

I thought about asking her breeder if he wanted her back, rebred but sans current calf.

We took the calf of yesterday so we could treat him more easily, but he won't suck a bottle, so we are having to tube feed him, which won't work forever. He has something like shipping fever, I guess from the weather stress.

No, her behaviour is not routine for range cattle unless those cattle are thrown out in a pasture and never see a human except at weaning time. The fact that her bull calf is docile is not really all that odd. The rip we had that would take anyone that got within 50 feet of her from the moment she went into labor until her calf was a month old produced a heifer calf two years ago that is one of the most gentle, docile animals in the herd (believe me, I've been watching her). The heifer missed the mean gene, but that is the exception rather than the rule, I'm thinking. This cow is taking 'protectiveness' to extreme heights. When we sold the rip mentioned above, the sale barn was notified and she went for killer. It's difficult to transition a calf from his mother to a bottle, but it can be done with a little patience, perserverance, and a lot of work. Good luck!

 

[jersey lilly]

I think ya'll are takin what I"m sayin the wrong way, I'm not sayin that every cow should be a snot blower and come after you in the pasture. What I'm sayin, is.....this guy is new to cattle, what he calls nasty could just be what we call normal protectiveness in a cow. I can run mine in the corrals and sort calves off and do the taggin and ear markin, whatever and turn em back with mama and they are fine too. But, I still say I'd rather have em with a lil fight in em than none at all.
If the whole cow herd was docile and let you mess with their calves, there's be no need for anyone to have workin pens for workin calves. I don't have one that'll come at me for no reason in the pasture, whether she has a calf or not, but catch that calf??? she's gonna come runnin to investigate and see what's goin on. Blow a lil bit, most times just let the calf back out on the end of the rope, let her smell of it, then reel it back in, do what we gotta do, and turn it loose.
If he feels this cow is Mean and Nasty, yes, take it to the salebarn by all means........you don't need to get hurt. If you work around cattle long enuff, you come to know your cattle, which one's do what, and how they react to things. Sometimes they are the same time and time again, sometimes not..that's why you always keep an eye on em when your doin things out in the pasture.
AND TAKE NOTES!!!!

 

[msscamp]

Jersey Lilly, I did in fact misunderstand what you were saying. Sorry about that.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Around here we don't have time for any of that crap. It is an immediate cull if you are high headed crazy, hard on fences/fence jumper, a roaming bull or a threat to mine or anyone elses life.
Especially here in crappy california it is a big deal to have a hazard on the ranch. Even though the cows are not close to the road, all it takes is one idiot walking across my property and getting hurt by a very pertective cow and I am done. I would loose everything. Even though he was "treespacing."
ALL of our cows are very mellow, there offspring are mellow (or they grow wheels) and our bulls are mellow. It is a requirement for this ranch at this point in time.
It is tough to cull so hard but it is not worth the risks of someone getting hurt or worse killed over a cow that is replacable.
As far as selling that cow,(IMO) it would be immoral to sell it to anyone other than butcher. If it is just wild I would state that on my paperwork and they would mention that but this cows sounds like a hazard.
I think of it as how would I feel if someone unknowingly bought her (look at all the newbies not knowing what they are buying at auction) and I read in the paper that someone got killed because of it. I knew she would hurt someone yet I did nothing to prevent it. You get gun shy in california. Can not wait to move.
Just my 2 cents for all its worth. Be careful with cows like that. There are to many calmer, nicer cows out there to deal with that.

Double R

P.S. Please keep us posted as to what you do