Questions about clover

[Chapin81]

Hi everyone I hope everyone is doing well.

As some of you may know we have a cow-calf operation in northern Guatemala. Our pastures are monoculture, brizantha, humidicola and cayman grasses. Cayman and humidicola we use because they are resistant to flooding. A few weeks ago I started watching videos on youtube discussing clover and I feel like it is needed due to its nitrogen fixing ability and help break up the soil. Our rest periods are around 60-90 days depending on the time of year. Our lowest temps are around 60f and our highest 104f our rainy season starts in May and ends in late February the following year.

It's greatly appreciated if anyone can answer my questions.

How often can clover be grazed ??
Can it be heavily grazed for shorts periods? We usually graze half and leave half or sometimes leave more grass behind.

I hear people talk about morning dew on clover is toxic, is this the same if it's raining?(excuse my ignorance). I'm just concerned about the bloat I hear about.

I don't plan on seeding the entire pasture full of clover, it's mostly for the bare spots or paths that developed due to over grazing from many years before.

Is there any particular clover that is drought and heat resistant?
I attached a few pics from 2022 showing how we grazed.

I wish everyone a happy new year and achieve many of your goals for 2023!

 

[Rancher]

Your location says NY? Any clover can cause bloat in rumanants. White dutch works for close grazing and is short grower but very hardy. Mamoth red is prolific and tall, my cows don't like it much unless I put it up as hay. You should try a vetch or sweet clover.

 

[KAstocker]

I would not worry about bloat concern if there is mostly grass. I have never heard of any toxicity concern either. I am just familiar with red and white clover. White is supposed to be best for nitrogen fixation but a mix of both is recommended. I'm not sure if they would do well in your environment. It sounds like you might want a warm season legume like Korean lespedeza. It won't fixate as much nitrogen as clover though.

 

[Silver]

Can you grow birdsfoot trefoil, sainfoin or crown vetch in Guatemala?

 

[Chapin81]

Your location says NY? Any clover can cause bloat in rumanants. White dutch works for close grazing and is short grower but very hardy. Mamoth red is prolific and tall, my cows don't like it much unless I put it up as hay. You should try a vetch or sweet clover.

I live in nyc family farm is in guatemala. I travel back and forth. thanks for the advice.

 

[kenny thomas]

Hi everyone I hope everyone is doing well.

As some of you may know we have a cow-calf operation in northern Guatemala. Our pastures are monoculture, brizantha, humidicola and cayman grasses. Cayman and humidicola we use because they are resistant to flooding. A few weeks ago I started watching videos on youtube discussing clover and I feel like it is needed due to its nitrogen fixing ability and help break up the soil. Our rest periods are around 60-90 days depending on the time of year. Our lowest temps are around 60f and our highest 104f our rainy season starts in May and ends in late February the following year.

It's greatly appreciated if anyone can answer my questions.

How often can clover be grazed ??
Can it be heavily grazed for shorts periods? We usually graze half and leave half or sometimes leave more grass behind.

I hear people talk about morning dew on clover is toxic, is this the same if it's raining?(excuse my ignorance). I'm just concerned about the bloat I hear about.

I don't plan on seeding the entire pasture full of clover, it's mostly for the bare spots or paths that developed due to over grazing from many years before.

Is there any particular clover that is drought and heat resistant?
I attached a few pics from 2022 showing how we grazed.

I wish everyone a happy new year and achieve many of your goals for 2023!

Is there any type of clover that grows in the region now. If so using the local species can be much easier than introducing new species.

 

[Chapin81]

Can you grow birdsfoot trefoil, sainfoin or crown vetch in Guatemala?

I've never tried and I've asked around and no one knows what clover is our pastures where originally all forest and it was all cleared and burned. Once that was done my parents established the three types of grasses I mentioned because it was " a no brainer" back in the day. After listening and reading, I've come to the realization that this might be a reason why our grasses don't have an abundance growth. I've never done soil test but I know it lacks fertility to some degree. We did find earthworms for the first time ever. So we do know that our grazing management is helping.

 

[Chapin81]

Is there any type of clover that grows in the region now. If so using the local species can be much easier than introducing new species.

Hi Kenny I have asked I get a lot of what is that??? There is a type of legume that was introduced a few years ago. It's called leucaena. But it looks and grows like a tree. I'm more interested in clover because if it's mixed with the other grasses at least they will get some sort of variety of grasses rather than one. I'm sure they find it pleasing. I'm sure they get tired of eating the same thing day after day.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think that's in the memosa family. We try our best to kill it.
I am very unfamiliar with your plants so not lots of help with clovers. If seed can be transported there try a few smaller areas and see how it does. I don't think clovers will do well in very wet areas.

 

[Chapin81]

I think that's in the memosa family. We try our best to kill it.
I am very unfamiliar with your plants so not lots of help with clovers. If seed can be transported there try a few smaller areas and see how it does. I don't think clovers will do well in very wet areas.

That's the plan. Only using it in small areas. I think out wettest grounds usually stay "flooded" for about 15 days. But it only happenes when we have a serious down pour. Which isn't that often.

 

[A.J.]

I've never done soil test but I know it lacks fertility to some degree. We did find earthworms for the first time ever. So we do know that our grazing management is helping.

I agree with what others have already said. I'm not sure how things are down in that part of the world. Is there somewhere local you could take some soil samples to and have them sent off and analyzed? Here, that is one of the best ways to determine what your ground needs to help increase productivity. If soil ph is off that can cause a significant impact. As high as seed, fertilizer, etc. is here, you definitely want to know what is needed and in what amount so you're not throwing money away.

 

[wbvs58]

I think there would be better legumes available to you to achieve your goals. In the northern part of our state of Queensland there are a lot of tropical legumes planted with the grasses and they seem to do well, enrichening the soil and provide high quality feed. Progardes Desmanthus is one that seems very popular but there are a lot of others and some of them actually come from Sth America.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Clover is best inter-mixed with grasses for grazing. I have it thru-out my farm. Clover seed does not break down in the rumen. If cattle eat clover after it has gone to seed - the CATTLE will spread the clover through their manure droppings. You can FEED clover seed by putting it in your mineral (if you feed mineral). We have seeded fields by having clover mixed in with the fertilizer. Most varieties are extremely hardy.

 

[chaded]

Just remember clover is a cool season legume. It would be fine for your lower temperature range but I suspect the temperature there is probably warmer most of the year than not?

I have a few types of clover here and it really does't like to be in wet areas. Some of the white clovers seem to do better in this regard.

As KAstocker mentioned, maybe look into Korean Lespedeza or some other legume?

Whatever you do keep us posted, I enjoy seeing what's going on there even though it is very different then here.

 

[ClinchValley86]

How about moringa? It is in the trebol/clover family. Have a friend in Guatemala that uses it for animal feed and human medicine and many other things.

Personally, I would get a variety of legume seed and mix them together. See what does perform well.

Korean lespedeza likes heat. My cattle do well on it.

Lucerne is used in Australia extensively I think. Maybe it's heat tolerance would work well for you down there.

I'd love to visit Guatemala someday. It sure seems beautiful.

 

[BC]

Proper soil pH is critical for clovers or that fact any legume. Get your soil tested. I would guess from your previous posts (land was cleared forest land and high rainfall) that you have acidic soils. Because most clovers are cool season plants, I suggest you research adding lablabs into your mix. They are warm season legumes.

 

[Chapin81]

Clover is best inter-mixed with grasses for grazing. I have it thru-out my farm. Clover seed does not break down in the rumen. If cattle eat clover after it has gone to seed - the CATTLE will spread the clover through their manure droppings. You can FEED clover seed by putting it in your mineral (if you feed mineral). We have seeded fields by having clover mixed in with the fertilizer. Most varieties are extremely hardy.

hi Jeanne we provide about 50lbs a day of mineral and add another 25lbs of common salt is a there specific amount of seed per lbs to add? How long does it take clover to go to seed?
Thanks

 

[Chapin81]

Just remember clover is a cool season legume. It would be fine for your lower temperature range but I suspect the temperature there is probably warmer most of the year than not?

I have a few types of clover here and it really does't like to be in wet areas. Some of the white clovers seem to do better in this regard.

As KAstocker mentioned, maybe look into Korean Lespedeza or some other legume?

Whatever you do keep us posted, I enjoy seeing what's going on there even though it is very different then here.

I would say our climate is similar to the weather in southern Florida/key west. I thought clover survived in hot weather months and grew as well here in the states. All the vids I see on YouTube you see the farmers showing off cattle grazing in clover and they are sweating their rears off some mention it hasn't rained in weeks. I did see a video that showed cattle being grazed on clover and it was recorded in Colombia and she mention white and red clover. Only way of knowing is giving it a shot I guess and seeing if it germinates.

 

[Chapin81]

Proper soil pH is critical for clovers or that fact any legume. Get your soil tested. I would guess from your previous posts (land was cleared forest land and high rainfall) that you have acidic soils. Because most clovers are cool season plants, I suggest you research adding lablabs into your mix. They are warm season legumes.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[MurraysMutts]

@Chapin81 good to hear from ya again!

I know nothing of clover but wanted to say hi.
Did u get your worm issues resolved?