Question about mineral rights

[greybeard]

The old adage in Texas is "sell your land if you have to but never sell the mineral rights".

I have some property that I have as little as 1/16 and others that have 1/2. That's very common around here where the property has been resold thru the decades several or many times. I bought some property from my own sister and she wouldn't part with her mineral rights for love nor money.
Much of the private property inside the national forest is like that--the original owners (timber companies) kept part of the mineral rights.
It sucks not being majority owner, but I'll take whatever % I have over none at all every day of the week.

The other part of the mineral right puzzle is to make sure your "last will testament" spells out which heirs the mineral rights go to.
Listen to TB on this.
It can get lost in the shuffle of paperwork and time if you do not do so, and could revert back to whoever ends up owning the land itself even if it is not owned by your descendants.

Mine is all under lease right now, and they came thru last year with the cables and "thumpers" and didn't do any blasting.

 

[backhoeboogie]

There's a whole lotta folks who sold off the family farm as soon as maw and paw finally kicked the bucket. We had no technology for shale extraction. Now we do. Gas companies drilled and had hit dry holes. Kids didn't think it necessary to keep the minerals. Now that land is producing. Buyers made good.

I'll never sell mineral rights. Get offers in the mail nearly every day.

 

[DLD]

It's very unusual, in fact almost unheard of, for any mineral rights to sell with land in this part of the country any more. I'm surprised you're getting the opportunity to buy even 50%. We own land and we own mineral rights but no mineral rights under any land we own. My wife and I both inherited what minerals we have - some of it's producing (oil and/or natural gas), some not. The non producing parcels make more money off leasing than the others do in production - none of it makes very much, but we have no interest in selling them either.

It may be different with mining, but owning any percentage of the mineral rights (or none) gives you no control in when, where or if they drill or seismograph. They'll pay, usually quite well, for surface damages, but whether or not the surface owner(s) own any or all of the minerals makes no difference. If they want to drill on you badly enough, they're probably going to end up doing it whether you want them to or not. They'll either pay you enough to change your mind or let you go broke fighting them. Same goes for pipelines.

 

[Brute 23]

A surface owner can not stop drilling in any way. There is no fight to be had.

I deal with this first hand day in and day out.

 

[crimsoncrazy]

My grandpa had someone come buy and ask about a lease on some of our land to drill. My grandpa told him he didn't have any mineral right and the land man said yeah you have 50 percent. My grandpa had owned the land 20 years and never knew.

 

[Craig Miller]

A surface owner can not stop drilling in any way. There is no fight to be had.

I deal with this first hand day in and day out.

Yep. Might as well take the money. If you try to fight they will use eminent domain if they want to drill bad enough and then youll get nothing.

 

[jedstivers]

On some I've bought they wanted to keep 50%. I explained since I was the one that was going to own it I wanted control of how it went and wanted 51% and they were good with that.
We don't have any drilling here now and I really hope it stays that way after seeing what goes on in other areas. We haven't missed any meals so far so I think we can get along without it.

 

[DLD]

Again, as far as oil and gas goes at least, whether you own 100%, 51%, 0r 1% of the mineral rights, you'll have exactly the same amount of say about what they do with them - pretty much none. An exploration/production company will lease your mineral rights and pay you a lease bonus plus a percentage of any production. If you don't lease you will be entitled to "participate" in the well, which will mean you won't have to share your percentage of the revenues, but you will have to pay your percentage of the costs - you'd best have really, really deep pockets if you choose to go that route.

 

[TexasBred]

Yes that piece of land that the pipeline runs in has been reduced in value by at least 75%, because no structure can ever be built on that property. You have to fight tooth and nail with large legal fees to get what you are owed, they will screw you any chance they get. I speak from having property that I owned the majority of mineral rights to property that I owned little or no rights.

Lets don't forget they come out and do the sesmic work where they blast your place to be nice, don't cover or remove wires and leave the drill hole dirt which in a lot of places is clay that will not grow shyt, so you got a dead spot.

So if you don't have the mineral rights to the land your gonna get fornicated. You can just haggle over the position and whether you get any lube.

Actually only the 30' wide easement is off limits for building as well as any production sites. Seeing as my pipelines runs across the back edge of the property they have done no damage to my surface rights which I do still have the right to use nor has the property lost any value. Seismic is no longer done with explosives but rather with "thumper trucks" (look that up). Not invasive at all. Any and all evidence of a drill sight will be removed once production has stopped and O&G Co. releases the minerals.... The only legal fees I had was for my attorney to negotiate $$$$$ and minor details to the easement agreement. Sounds like you haven't been around much leasing and drilling for quite some time. Things have changed "for the better".

 

[TexasBred]

A surface owner can not stop drilling in any way. There is no fight to be had.

I deal with this first hand day in and day out.

True...all he can do is whatever it takes to ensure he is compensated for damages and that drilling etc. is always done in accordance with best management practices. Most companies are more than happy to accommodate the owner of the surface rights to the best of their abilities. I've never had to call one about any problems.

 

[houstoncutter]

Yes that piece of land that the pipeline runs in has been reduced in value by at least 75%, because no structure can ever be built on that property. You have to fight tooth and nail with large legal fees to get what you are owed, they will screw you any chance they get. I speak from having property that I owned the majority of mineral rights to property that I owned little or no rights.

Lets don't forget they come out and do the sesmic work where they blast your place to be nice, don't cover or remove wires and leave the drill hole dirt which in a lot of places is clay that will not grow shyt, so you got a dead spot.

So if you don't have the mineral rights to the land your gonna get fornicated. You can just haggle over the position and whether you get any lube.

Actually only the 30' wide easement is off limits for building as well as any production sites. Seeing as my pipelines runs across the back edge of the property they have done no damage to my surface rights which I do still have the right to use nor has the property lost any value. Seismic is no longer done with explosives but rather with "thumper trucks" (look that up). Not invasive at all. Any and all evidence of a drill sight will be removed once production has stopped and O&G Co. releases the minerals.... The only legal fees I had was for my attorney to negotiate $$$$$ and minor details to the easement agreement. Sounds like you haven't been around much leasing and drilling for quite some time. Things have changed "for the better".

You are correct , I haven't dealt with any leasing since 2008, so perhaps it has change with the seismic work. I know when they did it back in 08 work done in town was done by thumper trucks in town. Out in the countryside it was business as usual, blast away. If the right of way falls on the backside of your property your lucky. You have a much greater property loss if the line or lines run across the front>

 

[houstoncutter]

Yes that piece of land that the pipeline runs in has been reduced in value by at least 75%, because no structure can ever be built on that property. You have to fight tooth and nail with large legal fees to get what you are owed, they will screw you any chance they get. I speak from having property that I owned the majority of mineral rights to property that I owned little or no rights.

Lets don't forget they come out and do the sesmic work where they blast your place to be nice, don't cover or remove wires and leave the drill hole dirt which in a lot of places is clay that will not grow shyt, so you got a dead spot.

So if you don't have the mineral rights to the land your gonna get fornicated. You can just haggle over the position and whether you get any lube.

Actually only the 30' wide easement is off limits for building as well as any production sites. Seeing as my pipelines runs across the back edge of the property they have done no damage to my surface rights which I do still have the right to use nor has the property lost any value. Seismic is no longer done with explosives but rather with "thumper trucks" (look that up). Not invasive at all. Any and all evidence of a drill sight will be removed once production has stopped and O&G Co. releases the minerals.... The only legal fees I had was for my attorney to negotiate $$$$$ and minor details to the easement agreement. Sounds like you haven't been around much leasing and drilling for quite some time. Things have changed "for the better".

You are correct , I haven't dealt with any leasing since 2008, so perhaps it has change with the seismic work. I know when they did it back in 08 work done in town was done by thumper trucks in town. Out in the countryside it was business as usual, blast away. If the right of way falls on the backside of your property your lucky. You have a much greater property loss if the line or lines run across the front.

 

[heath]

I don't own any b of the mineral rights on my place, but the previous owner has two natural gas wells on it. It doesn't affect me one bit. I would have liked to have bought the mineral rights, but by no means was it a deal breaker.
You will be compensated for any loss of surface use and will probable end making more than if it was in cattle production.
I do get the fear/anger towards the oil/gas industry. It's a business that is needed, and if you happen to be on top of it, it will put money in your pocket.

 

[bird dog]

Heath, I feel the same way as you. Maybe because energy has been such a big business in Oklahoma and Texas long before most of us were around. Around here if you say to your self " I am not buying any place where I don't own the minerals", well you probably are not going to be able to buy the place you want or any land in the area you like. I have looked at places a hundred miles from any production and people still want to keep the rights. The Barnett shale changed the way people think. Some operators are very good to land owners, some are not. It doesn't take a lot of asking around to figure out who is who.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Heath, I feel the same way as you. Maybe because energy has been such a big business in Oklahoma and Texas long before most of us were around. Around here if you say to your self " I am not buying any place where I don't own the minerals", well you probably are not going to be able to buy the place you want or any land in the area you like. I have looked at places a hundred miles from any production and people still want to keep the rights. The Barnett shale changed the way people think. Some operators are very good to land owners, some are not. It doesn't take a lot of asking around to figure out who is who.

I'm telling you! We were all excited back in '80. They punched a well about 1/4 mile from the house. Dry hole quelled our excitement. They went through Barnette Shale. Many folks sold land. We all thought there was no need in retaining minerals. No one bothered. Now you can lease for more than what the land was worth.

Know a guy who bought 645 acres for around $650 an acre. Leased it for $2400 an acre and 27% royalty 12 years later. The kids that sold off the family farm are crying foul. The new owner is set for life with mail box money.

Barnette is nothing tho. Haynesville is way more richer over in far East Texas. Problem is the stuff is way deeper down. Takes big rigs and they're not readily available.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm surprised he's letting you have 50%. Take it and run.

Really I wouldn't give up any.
I own mineral rights all over a couple counties from Great Grandparents.
Land was sold off years ago. Those mineral rights will never be sold.

 

[Brute 23]

I suggest any time you are contacted by a land man to consult with a local attorney. They should be able to give you insight to what the going rates and terms are in your area. They will also tell you what your rights are.

Land men are the car salesmen of the business. There are some good ones but a lot of them are very aggravating. Just understand going in, its their job to get the land as cheap as possible. They make a deal and move on for the most part unless they want some thing. Mix a drink and have some fun.

My current job is to meet with land owners before we are about to drill. We (my boss and I) clear the land, survey the well site, build the pads, roads, pipelines and any other facilities needed. We are also in charge of the lease operators that will be going in and out on a daily basis while the well is in production.

Some of the land owners have minerals and some don't. I have some land owners that are really nice and I have some that have threaten to burn our offices down. The ones that are usually upset do not understand the process and refuse to let attorneys or any one else help them in any way. They always think they are being cheated... by the world apparently.

If you can get to a production foreman or production supervisor... deal with them... you are better off. They tend to bend over back wards for the land owners because they know they will be dealing with them day in and day out for the life of the well... as opposed to a land man. They have direct communication with the person making the calls and have more motivation to keep the land owner happy.

Not all companies are like this but its worth a try. The bigger the company the more bs you have to wade through. The majors can be like dealing with the govt.

 

[backhoeboogie]

My perspective is a bit different Brute. The only good thing is mail box money. That comes from dealing with the biggest companies and the smallest of companies.

A whole lot of trash and refuse comes with well pads. Dumpsters don't get dumped and the trash blows all through your property.

Cattle guards are fine. Except when you need to drive cattle up YOUR lane. They don't understand.

They use contractors to build pads. When they turn around the big rigs and get into your fence, they don't tell anyone.

They use contractors to replace the fences after the pipelines are done. They use substandard wire and the cheapest materials they can find. Wire so weak a bird landing on it can almost break it. I didn't know anyone made gates so light that new born calves bend them. But they do. And that's the ones the contractors will use

Water trucks run to the well pad from now on. All the trash, bottles, and refuse they throw out the window happens when they get off the main roads. 12 wells are off of my lane. I could fill up a sack daily. Again it is not the company itself but rather their contractors.

I could go on and on. We are never considered customers. We are stakeholders.

Land men know what the compnay rates are. If they can give you 20% and keep 8% for themselves, they'll do it every time. It is best to go straight to the company itself.

 

[Brute 23]

Did you talk to some one with the company when you had all those issues?

I give my cards to all the land owners. Every thing you mentioned is all stuff that would fall under my job. All that could be easily fixed.

Gates next to cattle guards can be put in the lease. We do it all the time. Even if it's not in the lease it doesn't cost more to do it so if a land owner just talks with me I can make it happen.

Some one hit a fence, it gets fixed. Doesn't matter who did it, when, why, ect. If a fence is tore up we fix it. One benefit I like is we keep a local fencing crew on hand for all our fence work. They do a much better job that a lease crew.

Land men can be contracted or be employees of the company. We have our own land department that does most of the leasing. When our guy walks out he is the closest to the company you will get next to dealing with me.

I tell land owners straight up... stuff is going to happen. Trucks are going to hit gates, a piece of trash is going to get away, and all that other good stuff. The faster I know the faster we can get to work fixing it.

 

[TexasBred]

My perspective is a bit different Brute. The only good thing is mail box money. That comes from dealing with the biggest companies and the smallest of companies.

A whole lot of trash and refuse comes with well pads. Dumpsters don't get dumped and the trash blows all through your property.

Cattle guards are fine. Except when you need to drive cattle up YOUR lane. They don't understand.

They use contractors to build pads. When they turn around the big rigs and get into your fence, they don't tell anyone.

They use contractors to replace the fences after the pipelines are done. They use substandard wire and the cheapest materials they can find. Wire so weak a bird landing on it can almost break it. I didn't know anyone made gates so light that new born calves bend them. But they do. And that's the ones the contractors will use

Water trucks run to the well pad from now on. All the trash, bottles, and refuse they throw out the window happens when they get off the main roads. 12 wells are off of my lane. I could fill up a sack daily. Again it is not the company itself but rather their contractors.

I could go on and on. We are never considered customers. We are stakeholders.

Land men know what the compnay rates are. If they can give you 20% and keep 8% for themselves, they'll do it every time. It is best to go straight to the company itself.

Don't know who those folks are dealing with but we deal with four different oil companies on four different locations as well as pipeline companies and have never had any of those problems. The places are spotless, where pipeline go under fences, fences are braced off and very good gates installed. True water trucks come regularly but we've never had one drive off a pad, hit a fence or do any damage whatsoever. We've learned over the years that most of the reputable companies will do about anything they can within reason to maintain a good working relationship with owners of both minerals and surface rights.