Purebred Angus bulls without papers

[Bestoutwest]

This topic has done one thing. And Branded said it himself. It's been FREE promotion of his cattle. He's a master at manipulating people for his benefit.

That's pretty harsh.

Didn't mean to offend so many people on here. Nobody has handled me in the cattle business with kid gloves and I thought topics could be discussed without a fight. If I inadvertently hurt anyone's feelings, my apologies. That was not my intention.

I'm not sure that's really harsh. You came on here extolling the virtues of a 2 y/o bull pretty loudly. When others objected that he might be a good bull, but not worth $1.5M at 2, you fired back harshly. In not so many words, calling folks dumb for not seeing the value in $80/straws on an unproven bull when there's a ton of straw for a fraction of that price on "proven" bulls with consistent progeny trends.

With this thread you started out by "asking" for opinions on whether or not you should sell unregistered bulls. Now, that in itself seems innocuous, but then you start talking about how your hay is so good that it makes your cows competitive with the horses in the Derby, and how that your vets went to Auburn (big whoop, my vets went to college, too), it becomes pretty off-putting and clear how you feel about most other operations.

Not everyone on here sees the value of running registered, or using the next "best" thing. Not everyone sees the value of doing things the same way that others do it. You've insinuated that unless you're using such-and-such genetics, or that if you're using your own bulls you're doing it incorrectly.

I'll finish with this. I've seen a lot of cattle on here over the years. Mr. Victor has great cattle. There's a Murray Grey breeder that has drool worth cattle. Bright Raven has fantastic cattle. Nesi's herd of mongrels (sorry, buddy :lol: ) are great looking. There's several here that do strictly commercial that have great looking cattle. Randi in Canada, who has a pretty large commercial herd, has probably some of the best cattle I've ever seen. There's another on here that BR posts pictures for that are as solid a bovine as I've seen anywhere else. I've never seen any of yours.

 

[Blue Dawg]

No operation, I just troll

At least you're honest.

TT

This time of the year when it's cold out I follow different forums, I can say that the conversation in this thread is not unlike other conversations or the people on other forums. For example, no matter what animal, the show people don't like producers because they don't follow standards and the producers don't follow standards as long as it will produce. But one thing they have in common is that they all know how to bash.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

If there are other cattle forums with decent traffic I'd like to hear about them. I'd love to meet some new folks.

 

[Bright Raven]

No operation, I just troll

At least you're honest.

TT

This time of the year when it's cold out I follow different forums, I can say that the conversation in this thread is not unlike other conversations or the people on other forums. For example, no matter what animal, the show people don't like producers because they don't follow standards and the producers don't follow standards as long as it will produce. But one thing they have in common is that they all know how to bash.

It becomes a frenzy when the mob mentality behavior kicks in. Like a bunch of 7 th graders picking on the kid who has horrible acne. I always like to support the kid with acne no matter who is right.

 

[Muddy]

Boy lot of pizzing contest....and someone's feelings got hurt.

 

[Blue Dawg]

This is the only cattle forum I follow

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

This is the only cattle forum I follow

There aren't many.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

At least you're honest.

TT

This time of the year when it's cold out I follow different forums, I can say that the conversation in this thread is not unlike other conversations or the people on other forums. For example, no matter what animal, the show people don't like producers because they don't follow standards and the producers don't follow standards as long as it will produce. But one thing they have in common is that they all know how to bash.

It becomes a frenzy when the mob mentality behavior kicks in. Like a bunch of 7 th graders picking on the kid who has horrible acne. I always like to support the kid with acne no matter who is right.

So you're admitting, your only reason for posting is to troll everyone, including the one you are siding with?
;-)

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

At least you're honest.

TT

This time of the year when it's cold out I follow different forums, I can say that the conversation in this thread is not unlike other conversations or the people on other forums. For example, no matter what animal, the show people don't like producers because they don't follow standards and the producers don't follow standards as long as it will produce. But one thing they have in common is that they all know how to bash.

It becomes a frenzy when the mob mentality behavior kicks in. Like a bunch of 7 th graders picking on the kid who has horrible acne. I always like to support the kid with acne no matter who is right.

I try not to discriminate, if the zit faced kid needs his butt kicked I will oblige.

 

[Ebenezer]

Give old James "Iron Guts" Angus credit. So far he has not lost his temper. I told him privately that he needs to "stop trying to sell snowballs to Eskimos" and just stick with expressing his vision of raising cattle. You don't have to force everyone else to follow you like the Pied Pipper. We all have our own vision and trying to force others to change their vision is akin to shoveling dodo into the tide. It just washes back on you, you don't accomplish anything and in the end - you smell bad.

Hasn't lost his temper? He quit 2 times! :lol: :roll: :lol2:

 

[Ebenezer]

I really doubt you could ever make $750,000 bulls with 4 cows.. Look at the big operations, 100's of head and they've been doing it for decades, and it's still a small percentage of the bulls that get the big money, and part of the reason they do is they come from large herds that have registered and tested offspring, siblings, dams, sires, aunties and uncles and cousins for so long.
Try it, get an ET calf from SAV America and the most expensive dam and go try to market it.. even though you have the same genetics you won't get a tenth of the price had it been born on the Schaff ranch.

Nesikep, what Branded is speculating is owning 4 young cows each representing a very elite cow family. Flushing those cows to very carefully selected bulls. If you pencil it out, theoretically, $750,000 is within the mathematical range. I know some of the largest Simmental Breeders in Kentucky that only have 2 to 4 flush cows that meet that criteria.

Edited to add: that is a total return over the flush life of the 4 cows.

Isn't that part of what Gizmo and family have done? Bought donors, flushed to known bulls, kept some and sold some? She can tell us if 4 cows and a herd of recips will make the mare trot and win the race money.

 

[Nesikep]

I have a burning question... Where are ranches like Schaff getting their improved genetics from? Thin air?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Give old James "Iron Guts" Angus credit. So far he has not lost his temper. I told him privately that he needs to "stop trying to sell snowballs to Eskimos" and just stick with expressing his vision of raising cattle. You don't have to force everyone else to follow you like the Pied Pipper. We all have our own vision and trying to force others to change their vision is akin to shoveling dodo into the tide. It just washes back on you, you don't accomplish anything and in the end - you smell bad.

Hasn't lost his temper? He quit 2 times! :lol: :roll: :lol2:

I'm not quitting, it's just that many people on here don't want me to post. Apparently my views are incorrect. I think it's best if I just take a step back and listen to the cattle experts on here, instead of posting.

 

[callmefence]

Give old James "Iron Guts" Angus credit. So far he has not lost his temper. I told him privately that he needs to "stop trying to sell snowballs to Eskimos" and just stick with expressing his vision of raising cattle. You don't have to force everyone else to follow you like the Pied Pipper. We all have our own vision and trying to force others to change their vision is akin to shoveling dodo into the tide. It just washes back on you, you don't accomplish anything and in the end - you smell bad.

Hasn't lost his temper? He quit 2 times! :lol: :roll: :lol2:

I'm not quitting, it's just that many people on here don't want me to post. Apparently my views are incorrect. I think it's best if I just take a step back and listen to the cattle experts on here, instead of posting.

Who said they didn't want you posting here????

 

[Blue Dawg]

I'm not quitting, it's just that many people on here don't want me to post. Apparently my views are incorrect. I think it's best if I just take a step back and listen to the cattle experts on here, instead of posting.
[/quote]

Now that's a shame because you sure enough have added a spark to things.

You see those ads at the top of the page, that's what makes thing tick and you have brought'em out of the wood work to see what you have to say. :clap:

 

[phillse]

Branded don't quit posting because people don't see eye to eye with you. I agree with some of the things you have to say but not all. Heck 10 years ago I would probably agreed with all you say. Heck 10 years ago I liked to "pour gasoline on the fire just to watch it blow up" figuratively speaking. It is just that in that time 15-10 years ago I made some of the worst breeding decisions chasing bigger, better, best that came to bite me in the butt. I now believe in balance and form following function. I had cows that would wean a calf with the best but theyvhad to have her head in the feed bucket. No thanks, I need one to work on availabile forage with good minerals and supplementation only when hay is poor. For example this year the best of hay around here is crap due to the excessive rain and the delays (rain caused) in harvesting hay.

 

[Bright Raven]

I really doubt you could ever make $750,000 bulls with 4 cows.. Look at the big operations, 100's of head and they've been doing it for decades, and it's still a small percentage of the bulls that get the big money, and part of the reason they do is they come from large herds that have registered and tested offspring, siblings, dams, sires, aunties and uncles and cousins for so long.
Try it, get an ET calf from SAV America and the most expensive dam and go try to market it.. even though you have the same genetics you won't get a tenth of the price had it been born on the Schaff ranch.

Nesikep, what Branded is speculating is owning 4 young cows each representing a very elite cow family. Flushing those cows to very carefully selected bulls. If you pencil it out, theoretically, $750,000 is within the mathematical range. I know some of the largest Simmental Breeders in Kentucky that only have 2 to 4 flush cows that meet that criteria.

Edited to add: that is a total return over the flush life of the 4 cows.

Isn't that part of what Gizmo and family have done? Bought donors, flushed to known bulls, kept some and sold some? She can tell us if 4 cows and a herd of recips will make the mare trot and win the race money.

I was not considering recipients. I was calculating based on selling embryos. If you had 4 young cows that you could flush 6 times a year to the "bull of the month", you could sell a set of 3 embryos for $3 K. Obviously, this would be the most elite cow families flushed to the hottest bulls.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hasn't lost his temper? He quit 2 times! :lol: :roll: :lol2:

I'm not quitting, it's just that many people on here don't want me to post. Apparently my views are incorrect. I think it's best if I just take a step back and listen to the cattle experts on here, instead of posting.

Who said they didn't want you posting here????

Nobody said "don't post", but many are not fans of what I DO POST. I get the impression that many would rather that I keep my opinions to myself.

Truth be known, I don't have any grudges on here, if we were all sitting at a diner having coffee, I would act no differently.

While I totally disagree with some of the things I read on here, there are a lot of other things I see on CT that give me some good ideas.

For example, today I spoke with the folks at Midland Test, and I think that I might put together 5 bulls to take out there. I read their website carefully and it just happens that a lot of their requirements for submission is business as usual at Branded, with the exception of modified live vaccines.

I got to thinking hard about the bull test after True Grit and a couple others mentioned it, and Midland seemed like the very best, why not give it whirl and see what comes of it? I might fall flat on my face, or I might really have something to come back on here and bust some b...lls with. LOL!

One thing is for sure, they will either perform or fade away with their tales tucked.

Either way, I would be honest with everyone on CT and post the results whether they be good or bad.

I have a lot of confidence in my boys however, I don't think the will let me down.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded don't quit posting because people don't see eye to eye with you. I agree with some of the things you have to say but not all. Heck 10 years ago I would probably agreed with all you say. Heck 10 years ago I liked to "pour gasoline on the fire just to watch it blow up" figuratively speaking. It is just that in that time 15-10 years ago I made some of the worst breeding decisions chasing bigger, better, best that came to bite me in the butt. I now believe in balance and form following function. I had cows that would wean a calf with the best but theyvhad to have her head in the feed bucket. No thanks, I need one to work on availabile forage with good minerals and supplementation only when hay is poor. For example this year the best of hay around here is crap due to the excessive rain and the delays (rain caused) in harvesting hay.

I'm just dialing it down, not walking away.

 

[jscunn]

Do you all not understand that sometimes :
1. It is who you buy from and not what you buy?

2. Sometimes the check is never written and the embryos are never exchanged.

3. Believe it or not sometimes it is you buy this for $x and I will buy something from you for $X.