wbvs58
Well-known member
The keyword in the OP's question was PROVEN.
Ken
Ken
Proven female makers
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cattletalk
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Haha thanks. Yeah they've about gotta be dead to know. There's no use flushing to a new bulls if you're just trying to create females that will stick around. Honestly I feel like it's sad that many consider an 8 year old getting old.
SBMF 2015
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We've got some Sitz Barricade hfrs that we're about ready to wean. They are stout deep and growthy. Can't wait to see how they mature.
cattletalk
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I know. That's why I had to ask in hopes of something to come out of the woodwork. the mention of alliance is something I've considered. Maybe have to try net worth and just see if I can get along with them or not. Some people have very gentle ones.
Named'em Tamed'em
Well-known member
I used New Design 878 on a couple Limi cows and both heifers were awesome, deep soggy great udders attitudes and feet. Kept one for 8 years, her Absolute calves knocked it out of the park. I have my eye on a CC&7 granddaughter now.
Farm Family
Well-known member
PROVEN in our herd HF Tiger 5T. Nice udders, good feet, good fleshing, raise good ones and so far have the longevity. At least this is the bull that immediately comes to mind. We ended up running a Tiger son out of a SAV Bulletproof dam and the offspring great. Stamped the herd well. Many daughters retained and they mate well. Have to think about other suggestions - HF Tiger 5T was my immediate thought and obviously his influence in our foundation herd is profound.
Maybe not proven enough for you but Sitz Stellar has possibilities. He adds some power, feet are good as well as udders. The ones here are good mothers and very good to be around after they calve. Long term fertility is unproven at this point.
Without more information especially frame size, mature weight, terrain type, ect it is hard to make good suggestions. Like others have mentioned Hoover Dam has worked well in our herd. We have selected more for performance, efficiency and at least a 6.0 frame size when we selected sons and grandsons to use. Our HD influenced cows have plenty of frame. They are fertile and stay in the herd for years.
Not sure what some call extreme weight as it varies with each person. We have had 1,500-1,600 lb cows still producing and sound at 18 years of age. As long as they have the bone and foot structure to carry the weight. We have calves by an AI sire now that I'm very concerned about. Not enough foot and bone structure to carry the load.
You said proven sires. Bismarck is another solid sire. Have seen some Final Answer daughters in herds that were solid.
Not sure what some call extreme weight as it varies with each person. We have had 1,500-1,600 lb cows still producing and sound at 18 years of age. As long as they have the bone and foot structure to carry the weight. We have calves by an AI sire now that I'm very concerned about. Not enough foot and bone structure to carry the load.
You said proven sires. Bismarck is another solid sire. Have seen some Final Answer daughters in herds that were solid.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
The silence is deafening as so few proven Angus bulls have been named as good cow makers. That is the result of one sided selection in the breed. Sure, you have to have carcass and growth but the good cow is often overlooked in that quest. Thus few solid replies. Home raised bulls out of great dams work here. It's not 100% due to the unseen genes but it builds a solid herd.
GoWyo
Well-known member
The original question was focused on thickness and mass and raises a good one every year. The "thickness and mass" part makes it a lot tougher. Look at the sires with the most milking daughters and herds. Hoover Dam, Right Time, EXT, New Day, and some others have a lot of daughters. Few of the daughters seem to have a lot of thickness and mass themselves though they can throw it when bred right. The Ohlde phenotype and SAV phenotype seem to maybe have more mass and thickness in the cows. Seems difficult to get mass and thickness in a cow and not start losing fertility and ability to raise a calf.
Travlr
Well-known member
I'm not a great fan of mass and thickness in cows. The best producers I've had are large boned but not heavy, deep but not especially wide.
One of the things I think a lot of us get caught up in is udder size and shape. I've had HUGE calves weaned from cows where you had to stoop to see their udders underneath them, and others that had impressive udders and couldn't wean a heavy calf. Personally, I see weaning weights as a function of genetics rather than an overabundance of calories. I've always gotten more from genetics than from feed.
A cow must be feminine, fertile, and capable of putting a live calf on the ground... and taking a back seat to the genetic influence of the bull I'm using. The bull is what puts the meat on the calves. I used different bulls to produce terminal feeders and replacement heifers.
I was raised that a true beef cow should raise a steer that will feed efficiently and do well on the rail but also a heifer that will be maternal and have enough milk to raise a quality calf. We want the sires we use to do the same. We don't believe you have 2 herds one maternal and one terminal. Any sire I mention will do both. We are seeing positive results so far using Growth Fund genetics. But will need to see how the females do in 4-6 years
Travlr
Well-known member
With any animals I've ever had I keep a "core herd" to keep replacements from. They may run with the rest, or not. But the females I have in my core herd are capable of producing both exceptional steers and exceptional heifers. I breed them differently depending on what I want from them, and that's where bull selection comes in.
Growth Fund is the example of a terminal bull in my opinion. The progeny I have seen have structural problems.
We use the same sire to produce both top steers and females. If a sire can't sire both we don't use them whether walking sire or AI sire. A true beef sire should do both. We select for a balance of traits. Not extreme in any. We raise beef cattle and they need to cover all the bases. Many breeders can't run different herds or keep sires that are single function sires. We only run 120 head so not practical economically for us.
Ours have have been good structurally. Good feet. Have friends who have second calves on the ground. One told me there is nothing not to like about the Growth Funds. A very reputable breeder. I was a horse short and very critical of structural and feet issues. We are breeding grand daughters now. No issues yet. Many forget the cow can attribute to issues also.
There is more to structure than toe shape. I think we should agree to disagree on the value of the bull as a maternal sire. The angle of the rear legs and the high tailhead is where my main problems lie with the bull.
We don't have high railheads.Pkease post your perfect multi purpose sire that is over a 6.0 frame. I want to know as I've looked At many and tried several.
