wbvs58
Well-known member
The keyword in the OP's question was PROVEN.
Ken
Ken
Haha thanks. Yeah they've about gotta be dead to know. There's no use flushing to a new bulls if you're just trying to create females that will stick around. Honestly I feel like it's sad that many consider an 8 year old getting old.The keyword in the OP's question was PROVEN.
Ken
I know. That's why I had to ask in hopes of something to come out of the woodwork. the mention of alliance is something I've considered. Maybe have to try net worth and just see if I can get along with them or not. Some people have very gentle ones.Not sure the bull you are looking for exists. I hope you find what you are looking for as the number craze the last 20 years plus has cost the Angus breed dearly on maternal traits.
Maybe not proven enough for you but Sitz Stellar has possibilities. He adds some power, feet are good as well as udders. The ones here are good mothers and very good to be around after they calve. Long term fertility is unproven at this point.I know. That's why I had to ask in hopes of something to come out of the woodwork. the mention of alliance is something I've considered. Maybe have to try net worth and just see if I can get along with them or not. Some people have very gentle ones.
The original question was focused on thickness and mass and raises a good one every year. The "thickness and mass" part makes it a lot tougher. Look at the sires with the most milking daughters and herds. Hoover Dam, Right Time, EXT, New Day, and some others have a lot of daughters. Few of the daughters seem to have a lot of thickness and mass themselves though they can throw it when bred right. The Ohlde phenotype and SAV phenotype seem to maybe have more mass and thickness in the cows. Seems difficult to get mass and thickness in a cow and not start losing fertility and ability to raise a calf.I would like ideas from those who have more experience:
PROVEN sires to make females with as much thickness and mass as you can think of with good feet (and if that's a tall order, at least functional feet without soundness issues). I'm looking for sires who have given you cows with longevity and raise a nice one every year
I'm not a great fan of mass and thickness in cows. The best producers I've had are large boned but not heavy, deep but not especially wide.The original question was focused on thickness and mass and raises a good one every year. The "thickness and mass" part makes it a lot tougher. Look at the sires with the most milking daughters and herds. Hoover Dam, Right Time, EXT, New Day, and some others have a lot of daughters. Few of the daughters seem to have a lot of thickness and mass themselves though they can throw it when bred right. The Ohlde phenotype and SAV phenotype seem to maybe have more mass and thickness in the cows. Seems difficult to get mass and thickness in a cow and not start losing fertility and ability to raise a calf.
With any animals I've ever had I keep a "core herd" to keep replacements from. They may run with the rest, or not. But the females I have in my core herd are capable of producing both exceptional steers and exceptional heifers. I breed them differently depending on what I want from them, and that's where bull selection comes in.I was raised that a true beef cow should raise a steer that will feed efficiently and do well on the rail but also a heifer that will be maternal and have enough milk to raise a quality calf. We want the sires we use to do the same. We don't believe you have 2 herds one maternal and one terminal. Any sire I mention will do both. We are seeing positive results so far using Growth Fund genetics. But will need to see how the females do in 4-6 years
I was raised that a true beef cow should raise a steer that will feed efficiently and do well on the rail but also a heifer that will be maternal and have enough milk to raise a quality calf. We want the sires we use to do the same. We don't believe you have 2 herds one maternal and one terminal. Any sire I mention will do both. We are seeing positive results so far using Growth Fund genetics. But will need to see how the females do in 4-6 years
Growth Fund is the example of a terminal bull in my opinion. The progeny I have seen have structural problems.I was raised that a true beef cow should raise a steer that will feed efficiently and do well on the rail but also a heifer that will be maternal and have enough milk to raise a quality calf. We want the sires we use to do the same. We don't believe you have 2 herds one maternal and one terminal. Any sire I mention will do both. We are seeing positive results so far using Growth Fund genetics. But will need to see how the females do in 4-6 years
We use the same sire to produce both top steers and females. If a sire can't sire both we don't use them whether walking sire or AI sire. A true beef sire should do both. We select for a balance of traits. Not extreme in any. We raise beef cattle and they need to cover all the bases. Many breeders can't run different herds or keep sires that are single function sires. We only run 120 head so not practical economically for us.With any animals I've ever had I keep a "core herd" to keep replacements from. They may run with the rest, or not. But the females I have in my core herd are capable of producing both exceptional steers and exceptional heifers. I breed them differently depending on what I want from them, and that's where bull selection comes in.
Ours have have been good structurally. Good feet. Have friends who have second calves on the ground. One told me there is nothing not to like about the Growth Funds. A very reputable breeder. I was a horse short and very critical of structural and feet issues. We are breeding grand daughters now. No issues yet. Many forget the cow can attribute to issues also.Growth Fund is the example of a terminal bull in my opinion. The progeny I have seen have structural problems.
There is more to structure than toe shape. I think we should agree to disagree on the value of the bull as a maternal sire. The angle of the rear legs and the high tailhead is where my main problems lie with the bull.Ours have have been good structurally. Good feet. Have friends who have second calves on the ground. One told me there is nothing not to like about the Growth Funds. A very reputable breeder. I was a horse short and very critical of structural and feet issues. We are breeding grand daughters now. No issues yet. Many forget the cow can attribute to issues also.
We don't have high railheads.Pkease post your perfect multi purpose sire that is over a 6.0 frame. I want to know as I've looked At many and tried several.There is more to structure than toe shape. I think we should agree to disagree on the value of the bull as a maternal sire. The angle of the rear legs and the high tailhead is where my main problems lie with the bull.