Name a Proven Angus Heifer Bull who is a Foot Improve

[Air gator]

Willow Springs,
Thanks for the info. There are a lot of bulls who become popular based on profile photos of their calves...without any idea of how they walk.

People seem to have moved on from Aviator to the flavor of the month.
When Barstow Cash went to $100 a straw I thought Aviator was a nice alternative with a similar pedigree Sitz Upward/Sav Final Answer. If you look at the Foot Score Epds you get the impression that there are not a lot of great bulls for feet...when I get some time I will have to figure out what percentage are better than average.

Was it worth the trip to Billings to see bulls in person?

 

[Willow Springs]

Billings is great because there are three studs within about half an hour and you can see a lot of bulls in a couple days, and I tell everyone It is well worth your while to go see any bulls before you use them - and ask some questions while there. You can see a lot in a video as well in terms of structure and movement, but not always the feet, and you can't always get a good idea on scale and width of a bull. And pictures are usually professionally taken and photoshopped to show the bull at his best.

Just because they are in the stud does not mean that they will work in your program - especially if you are concerned with foot quality - it is one of those things you need to see for yourself - everyone sees it differently, and has different needs depending on your operation. In our case we have higher organic matter soils where the cows rotate through 10-40 acre paddocks for the summer - foot issues show up very quickly. If you are running in the sand hills or rocky mountain terrain, feet get worn down enough that shape or depth of heal don't usually become an issue.

And yes you are correct - feet are an issue in the Angus breeds - in some cases shape and in some cases depth of heal and in the really bad ones both. I would rather take less heal than poor shape in our operation. i have had cows with properly shaped feet but not enough heal stay around until 15, but the ones with the curl to the toes (usually front in Angus) are gone much earlier.

 

[LCBulls]

Billings is great because there are three studs within about half an hour and you can see a lot of bulls in a couple days, and I tell everyone It is well worth your while to go see any bulls before you use them - and ask some questions while there. You can see a lot in a video as well in terms of structure and movement, but not always the feet, and you can't always get a good idea on scale and width of a bull. And pictures are usually professionally taken and photoshopped to show the bull at his best.

Just because they are in the stud does not mean that they will work in your program - especially if you are concerned with foot quality - it is one of those things you need to see for yourself - everyone sees it differently, and has different needs depending on your operation. In our case we have higher organic matter soils where the cows rotate through 10-40 acre paddocks for the summer - foot issues show up very quickly. If you are running in the sand hills or rocky mountain terrain, feet get worn down enough that shape or depth of heal don't usually become an issue.

And yes you are correct - feet are an issue in the Angus breeds - in some cases shape and in some cases depth of heal and in the really bad ones both. I would rather take less heal than poor shape in our operation. i have had cows with properly shaped feet but not enough heal stay around until 15, but the ones with the curl to the toes (usually front in Angus) are gone much earlier.

I really like the phenotype of Aviator. Unfortunately his calves have not really been that great here. We did buy some embryos out of him and had a few this year. We have one that didn't breed up this year for many cycles.
Hopefully she's an outlier.

As far as Stunner goes, he was sent right to a feed yard pen and had to breed hundreds of heifers. I heard that he rubbed all the hair off his belly by breeding so many.
Interesting that ST Genetics bought a son of his this year for 81,000 and his Sons were the high selling group. What I like, isn't what everyone likes. I think he's a heck of a bull. Especially phenotypically. I Don't think that the Musgraves would put up with bad feet or all the buyers at the sale.

 

[Willow Springs]

Glad to hear he can track down heifers in a feed yard pen. And I trust the person who told me about his feet.

I don't know Musgraves, and haven't been to see their herd. I do like the looks of some of the bulls that come out of the operation via video and pics and in one case I saw him in person (Aviator). But from what I have seen of many sales and in many AI studs you are totally wrong. Buyers will buy bad footed bulls and pay a lot of money for them, those buyers include the major studs, and they will continue to market them even after it is apparent that they have bad feet. I could list you a few that I have seen in person but not trying to bad mouth anyone, just making a point. Have a look at some of the old AI catalogues where they used to do genetic type summaries, or have a look at the AAA foot scores - you will find some heavily used sires that are very poor footed. And like begets like - so there are a lot of poor footed Angus cattle running around. But as I said in my previous post the foot quality a person needs in their operation is specific to their own situation - so some of these poorer footed bulls won't be a problem for some operations if they have other redeeming qualities.

 

[LCBulls]

Glad to hear he can track down heifers in a feed yard pen. And I trust the person who told me about his feet.

I don't know Musgraves, and haven't been to see their herd. I do like the looks of some of the bulls that come out of the operation via video and pics and in one case I saw him in person (Aviator). But from what I have seen of many sales and in many AI studs you are totally wrong. Buyers will buy bad footed bulls and pay a lot of money for them, those buyers include the major studs, and they will continue to market them even after it is apparent that they have bad feet. I could list you a few that I have seen in person but not trying to bad mouth anyone, just making a point. Have a look at some of the old AI catalogues where they used to do genetic type summaries, or have a look at the AAA foot scores - you will find some heavily used sires that are very poor footed. And like begets like - so there are a lot of poor footed Angus cattle running around. But as I said in my previous post the foot quality a person needs in their operation is specific to their own situation - so some of these poorer footed bulls won't be a problem for some operations if they have other redeeming qualities.

I wasn't bragging about him breeding heifers in a pen. It was more of a comment that the new owners didn't really care for him very well. They just wanted as many calves as possible. When I talked to Tyler about him, that's what he told me. He said there probably won't be any new pictures or videos of him because they wore him out. think it was over 500 heifers.

You're right that many people can be fooled.I may be one of them, but all I know is that is what the breeder of the bull told me. I'd trust him over anyone else. I agree that feet are a problem and that's why I went out of my way to search for Bulls with good feet. His Sire Ld Capitalist 316 is known for his high quality feet.