Proud to be an American

[Hippie Rancher]

Bleeding heart liberal garbage! It would be different if these people came here to work and make a go of it. Instead we allow them to come and fly planes in to our buildings.

You say liberal like it is a bad word.

Yeah so many of "these people" are flying airplanes into buildings. :roll: :roll: :roll:

You have a really broad brush there! Bet you can paint whole countries with it. Plenty of bums and hard workers in all populations. And I dare say a few psychopaths too. Let's not forget that white, homegrown, veteran, who was also an innocent-civilian-killing terrorist, Tim McVeigh. Should I lump all white male veterans into the terrorist category?

 

[Txwalt]

I don't know, but I'm thinking the poem was sent by somebody who was sick of carrying everyone in the world on their tax paying back.

It is a false assumption. See my other comment. We all benefit from the use of taxes. A few items to consider: police and fire protection in many areas, roads and highways, development of many products and services are done with the help of govt money. Education for most people - FREE! Paid by tax monies. (not here to quibble with quality issues on public education, lots of times it is what a student makes of it) to name just a few. Then there is the supposed "defense" of this country. Imperialism or "spreading freedom and democracy", whatever you want to call it, it costs a LOT of money. And lets just quietly mention the numbers of poor and immigrants that make up the military. Are they some of the same ones you are carrying on your tax-paying back? hmmm?

And, oh yes, many, many studies have been made regarding the affects of welfare on the family. It seems when you "give" people too much and don't make them work for a living it becomes an entitlement.

Livestock too Common sense should tell you that sometimes a little help can make a huge difference. Sure some, maybe many or even most welfare recipients may become dependant. That isn't my argument at the moment. My point is there are more deserving targets taking an unfair share of our tax money.

Colin Powell made a speech several years back and addressed the assembly by letting them know that America had never taken anything from any foreign country,

Don't ask any Indians about this subject.

I think the key here is the fact that we try to preserve freedom throughout the world so that people do not have to seek asylum in America or immigrate (legal or otherwise) to this country.

Um, everybody in this country is an immigrant or descendant of one. (again possible exception of aboriginal peoples)

I'm glad you have put some thought into how to fund our government entitlement programs. Trouble with your equation Hippie is that we are having problems keeping corporations in America. If they all outsource to foreign soil how can we tax them?

You do have a bit of a point here, although most of the outsourcing that concerns me is labor, not coporate HQs. The major stockholders, CEOs and upper management are still here for most of these.

Maybe you think kerley is ignorant

ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am obviously in the minority position here on a lot of social issues and realized by kerley's response that I was not clear in my comment. I figured he (she?) might not actually agree with me.

but a lot of us old vets don't and some of us are even "edacated" enough to know that America can not continue to pay for everyone's lunch. This country was started by immigrants and refugees (the terms are not interchangeable). They all worked hard (work being the key word) and made our country great. The fact is, however, from sea to shining sea isn't as vast as it used to be and we have just about hit the max on resources--natural and man made. But, it would certainly be grand if you donated all your profits this year to the Refugee fund.

We actually agree on more than you think here. I will donate some of my profits to various programs, not all and its not like my profits compare to some! :shock:

Hippie,

On your first point no one is talking about legal immigrants that come here and work, especially those that join the military,

2nd Your point about more deserving targets is not what we are talking about either.

3rd No one is talking about Colin Powell. What is your solution to remeding the injustice done to indians 200yrs ago.

4th What is your point on the 4th comment

5th What is your point on the 5th comment

6th No comment

7th You obviously think there should be a cap on how much money people make. I somewhat agree. No way to legislate that and make it work in a positive way.

I know you mean well Hippie but I think you hear what you want to hear. Read into things that aren't there.

This post came off rude but I was just being blunt.

Your forum friend,
Walt

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Hippie,

On your first point no one is talking about legal immigrants that come here and work, especially those that join the military,

Oh I think many do not differentiate, especially if there are racial issues. My point was exactly that - to emphasize that immigrants aren't all a bunch of thieving welfare bums - some even join our military and risk their lives to serve and obtain citizenship.

2nd Your point about more deserving targets is not what we are talking about either.

Why not?

3rd No one is talking about Colin Powell.

The person I was responding to brought him up, not me.

What is your solution to remeding the injustice done to indians 200yrs ago.

I don't have a solution, only bring it up as contrast. Oh and by the way, the injustice continues in many ways.

4th What is your point on the 4th comment

5th What is your point on the 5th comment

6th No comment

I'm getting lost, perhaps you could actually break this up and use the quote feature?

7th You obviously think there should be a cap on how much money people make. I somewhat agree. No way to legislate that and make it work in a positive way.

I don't know about an imposed cap - agree it is difficult to make that work, I suppose encouraging the a$$holes to feel some shame will never work. There certainly are a few extremely wealthy people who do good works. Then there are the greedy jerks who should be run out of the country in my opinion.

I know you mean well Hippie but I think you hear what you want to hear. Read into things that aren't there.

I do mean well and I think most of us do. I do read things. A lot of things from all sorts of sources. Liberal and conservative. My opinions are also based on having seen some other places beyond our borders and knowing people from all over and all walks of life. I disagree that I read into things that aren't there. I think I see things many haven't had the oportunity or desire to see.

This post came off rude but I was just being blunt.

Not at all. It came off not agreeing with me, but I don't feel any rudeness from it or you.

Your forum friend,
Walt

Same ;-)

 

[Poverty Acres]

Hippie, experience tells me that when you have to drop smoke screen to cover your a$$, you're in retreat. You sure are making a lotta smoke out there girl. It's refreshing to see that you took the time to do a "kinda" point by point rebuttal to my opinion. I'm not quiet sure your responses are on subject, but hey, who cares you got to blow smoke. Just sign me off as Choctaw (1/4 Native American)....never on welfare, never will be and don't expect anything for nothing. Oh, when you drop that 5 dollar bill in the can, smile big for Santa.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Hippie, experience tells me that when you have to drop smoke screen to cover your a$$, you're in retreat. You sure are making a lotta smoke out there girl. It's refreshing to see that you took the time to do a "kinda" point by point rebuttal to my opinion. I'm not quiet sure your responses are on subject, but hey, who cares you got to blow smoke. Just sign me off as Choctaw (1/4 Native American)....never on welfare, never will be and don't expect anything for nothing. Oh, when you drop that 5 dollar bill in the can, smile big for Santa.

:?: :?: :?: I guess it's getting late because your reply makes almost no sense to me.

 

[chrisy]

WOW! not been locked yet I am supprised.....you are not the only Country that has this problem....we have it to our small Country is so Diverse now it is hard to even hear an English voice, My opinion is that all that come to a Country should live and work for at lest 10 years pay taxes and in our case health contributions before recieving any Social and have to pay half medical bills, and 20 years before recieving anything free.
A few months ago I was in a supermarket and an Old Lady was in the cue before me and she didn't have enough to pay for a box of tea bags, and in front of her was a refugee family dripping in rebok gear, paying with food stamps, I don't think this is fair.

the Geneva convention states that a refugee should stay in the first Country that is free from War, that would never be England or The States for that matter, so why should we put up with it......sorry if this gets this post locked but I get really narked about this sort of thing......it's the attitude of these people is what gets me.

 

[kerley]

Chrisy thanks for your input. I'm sorry England has the same problems we have and I'll bet most of us have been in line at the grocery and experienced the same thing. About 10 years ago I went back to college and remember registration day like it was yesterday. I had just retired and was getting pretty bored at home, so I wanted to brush up on new fangled gadgets called computers. The campus had an office for "Veterans" The sign said "Veterans Enter here to claim your benefits" I went in and sat down with a group of about 50 foreign speaking people. The Vet Rep had a translator and was explaining to the group about the benefits they were entitled too. They got free tuition, room and board and an allottment. Well, he finished with them and it was my turn. He wanted to know what I wanted? I said I don't know I saw your sign, I'm a Vet and am enquiring. He asked me how old I was. I told him and his reply was you are too old you have no benefits. I said "What about them?" He told me they were a whole different story.

I am glad you offered up a solution.....'all that come to a Country should live and work for at least 10 years pay taxes and in our case health contributions before receiving any Social and have to pay half medical bills, and 20 years before receiving anything free.'

If we cannot come together as a country on this issue, America will never be the same. We were founded on religious principals and hard work. My posting did stir up some thought and talk and I am glad for that. The silent minority needs to talk loud. And if some people want to call me ignorant, offensive, racist, or even a he/she (he for the record) so be it. I can take that and more and nothing much scares me anymore-except our country losing it's identity.

 

[kerley]

oops, meant to say Silent Majority above...oh well, what do you expect from an old contractor with bad back, bad eyes and arthritis. good thing i have good medical dental and eye insurance and don't have to depend on SS to live. Guess i'm the average older American who works hard and pays taxes.

 

[HOSS]

The vitriol against wealthy people is disgusting. I am not wealthy but would one day like to be. I do not think that wealthy people should bear more of a burden than I do for the existence and well being of this country. They got rich by a combination of luck, hard work, opportunity and smarts. Very few people left in the US that come from old, inherited money. The Congressional Budget Office released a report day before yesterday showing the break down of income taxes. The top 1% of wage earners pay 39% of all income taxes. The Top 5% of wage earners pay 54.36% of all income taxes and the top 10% pay around 65.84% of all income taxes and the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.54 of all the income tax. Does not sound fair to me. We penalize someone for working hard and making more money????? The lower 50% of wage earners pay almost no taxes.......the whole burden is upon those that strive to have more and are more productive in doing so.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

And if some people want to call me ignorant, offensive, racist, or even a he/she (he for the record) so be it.

I called your post and the poem those things. If you feel ignorant about something, going back to school is a good first step. Congratulations.

I found the poem and post to be offensive, racist and ignorant. I have to wonder if there is any understanding of what a refugee really is

.

As for your sex, I had no clue if you were a he or she or something else. I am pretty sure there were female veterans from the Viet Nam era. Wasn't trying to insult, simply did not know.

Still wondering if you have any idea what some refugees have been through and what that means.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

HOSS, do you have a link to that?

 

[Ryder]

The vitriol against wealthy people is disgusting. I am not wealthy but would one day like to be. I do not think that wealthy people should bear more of a burden than I do for the existence and well being of this country. They got rich by a combination of luck, hard work, opportunity and smarts. Very few people left in the US that come from old, inherited money. The Congressional Budget Office released a report day before yesterday showing the break down of income taxes. The top 1% of wage earners pay 39% of all income taxes. The Top 5% of wage earners pay 54.36% of all income taxes and the top 10% pay around 65.84% of all income taxes and the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.54 of all the income tax. Does not sound fair to me. We penalize someone for working hard and making more money????? The lower 50% of wage earners pay almost no taxes.......the whole burden is upon those that strive to have more and are more productive in doing so.

Well said. :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[T&S Ranch]

And if some people want to call me ignorant, offensive, racist, or even a he/she (he for the record) so be it.

I called your post and the poem those things. If you feel ignorant about something, going back to school is a good first step. Congratulations.

I found the poem and post to be offensive, racist and ignorant. I have to wonder if there is any understanding of what a refugee really is

.

As for your sex, I had no clue if you were a he or she or something else. I am pretty sure there were female veterans from the Viet Nam era. Wasn't trying to insult, simply did not know.

Still wondering if you have any idea what some refugees have been through and what that means.

Have you ever served?

 

[HOSS]

HOSS, do you have a link to that?

Hippie, I was actually conservative in my numbers as I was going off memory and jotting them down on a pad in my truck at 70mph. Here is the link to the Congressional Budget Office and their report. Scroll down to page 6 to the Shares of Federal Tax Liabilities, 2004 and 2005 and see the column for Individual Income Taxes and follow on down to 2005. This is the latest data available that just came out (government dollars at work).

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885 ... xRates.pdf

The actual numbers are even more unfair than what I had stated:

Top 1% pay %38.8 of individual income taxes
Top 5% pay %60.7 of individual income taxes
Top 10% pay %72.7 of individual income taxes
Top 50% pay % 99.4 of individual income taxes

You can also see by the data that the lowest 20% of wage earners pay -.09 percent of income taxes meaning they get back more than they pay in on the income tax return.

Another thing to consider is that the CBO is controlled by a Democratic congress so I doubt that the numbers are skewed to represent a Conservative Republican viewpoint.

 

[kerley]

[

i]Hippie said:
I called your post and the poem those things. If you feel ignorant about something, going back to school is a good first step.
kerley said:
I had just retired and was getting pretty bored at home, so I wanted to brush up on new fangled gadgets called computers.
[/i]

Where in the above sentence did I say I was ignorant? Hippie, you use that word, not me.

Hippie said: I found the poem and post to be offensive, racist and ignorant. I have to wonder if there is any understanding of what a refugee really is.... My opinions are also based on having seen some other places beyond our borders and knowing people from all over and all walks of life. I disagree that I read into things that aren't there. I think I see things many haven't had the oportunity or desire to see.

kerley says: Yes, I know what a refugee is. Unbelievable as it may sound to you some of us know as much as you do. And some of us have seen things you don't want to see.

Hippie said: As for your sex, I had no clue if you were a he or she or something else, (is that another word for hippie). I am pretty sure there were female veterans from the Viet Nam era. Wasn't trying to insult, simply did not know.

kerley says: Lots of very brave women in Viet Nam. They even saw things you have never seen. I think the last 4 words of your harangue above (check out Webster's for the meaning, as luck will have it h-a-r-a-n-g-u-e is only a few pages away from the word h-i-p-p-i-e) says it all. People who don't know, shouldn't talk until they find out. I remember you telling T&S in a earlier post "You have a really broad brush there! Bet you can paint whole countries with it."
Hippie, your brush covers everyone who happens to disagree with you. You lump them into your category of the day. You talk of SS bums, capitalists, bushistas, imperialists, greedy corporations, and let's not forget your favorite dirty word -- wealthy. And by the way, you still haven't explained why it is the responsiblility of the American taxpayer to support someone who has never paid into our system, and does not contribute to the economy of this country.
Please remember, nothing personal, this is just healthy debate.

 

[Horticattleman]

Good post HOSS.

I get so tired of hearing these bleeding heart liberals whine and whine about big companies and money. You know what. I am an employer and I make good money. Not from cows but from the 3 businesses I own. It is not right for me to pay a higher tax rate just because I earn more, but you better bet your last dollar my taxes are paid on time each month. Its true the top earners pay the most and mostly to support the lower rung. On top of that I PROVIDE JOBS. Good jobs that pay well. I can't understand how these people (lefties) can complain. Sure CEO's make big money and sure Oil companies make large profits. Jealousy is a female dog isn't it! ;-)

The way I see it is the only reason your whining is because you dont 1. invest in one of these companies 2. Own a profitable company like these or 3. work for one. I bet you never hear liberal whining from people who work for Chevron, or Texaco, or ....

So weird, every bleeding heart liberal seems to hate the word profit or wealthy. Had a few work for me and they were so against making a profit, but they always wanted new tools, and bonuses, and all that jazz.

 

[sanchez]

hippie, surely you know that Social security was never intended to be the sole, or even primary, source of retirement income. Anybody that expected to be able to live reasonably comfortable in retirement primarily with SS payments is/was an idiot or at the very least is/was incredibly naive, financially speaking. And the big (and small) corporations, as well as other types of employer entities, already pay a hefty chunk, in the form of payroll taxes, specifically the 7.65% employer matching FICA (social security) and Medicare taxes !

I wasn't the one complaining about my SS benefits, and yes I know that - interesting how the vitriolic criticism of the poor and about responsibility and not carrying the welfare bums on the backs of regular taxpayers never quite carries over to the the old SS bums that didn't adequately plan for their retirements, isn't it?

The bigger corps don't pay much of those taxes because they outsource so much of that sort of labor. One of my points. The profits that go to major management and stockholders and even Boards of some non-profits is pretty disgusting. CEO that make 100s and 1000s times the actual workers - that is the sort of corporate money I am talking about.

Drop the Utopian drivel (from your other post).

Tell me, why do companies export labor and manufacturing? Think about it for one second, and why didn't they do it 50 years earlier?

Specifically labor. Employees now'a'days are extremely expensive, I know first hand. For starters you've got employment taxes, workmans comp, liability insurance to protect them from suing you, continually increasing wages to offset the increase in minimum wage (which drives up the wage index), and on and on. Increased wages (besides "raises" for better performance) really benefit no one. They just make production and delivery products more expensive which in the end is passed back to the consumers, who later end up paying more money, and the viscous cycle continues.

In reality companies don't outsource because they want to get jobs out of America, increase their profits by ridiculous amounts, they do it because they have to stay competitive to stay in business. What else do you want them to do? Keep their jobs state side and just ask and expect for government subsidization?

Furthermore, Money that goes through government as it progresses becomes more and more worthless and waste. Because the government on just about every level is horribly inefficient with money. Why? Because they have no competition. They don't need to be efficient, nor do they appear to think they're obligated to. Walk in to your local DMV/MVD office to appreciate this first hand. This is also exactly why they should keep things like health care, fire/ambulance service, communication services (telecom, radio, tv, etc), and on and on far far away from the government. They have a hard enough time enforcing the laws that they, and the citizens pass. Let's let them focus on that first.

Blaming immigrants and the poor for your tax situation is EXACTLY what the real rip-offs like you to keep doing. REALLY follow the money. Welfare is not the big chunk of our taxes you think it is.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day, whether its a dollar of your check, ten dollars, or one hundred dollars, its still YOUR MONEY that should be spent how you see fit. Who cares if it's even a very small percentage, it's a wasted money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[chrisy]

Horti...and...sanchez...can you come over and teach our Politicians how to run the place it sounds like you have picked up one of our papers and read the complaints page, We are not rich but comfortable and pay a high tax, because my Husband got off of his backside and got a good job, and earnt himself a good pension, when he retired from that job, and has got another good job, so now the tax man clobbers him hard.

 

[Brahma Bull]

pretty offensive

Well that is your God given Rights to feel that way,it's your opinion,our freedom at work.Freedom my dad fought for in WWII and my brother in Nam.My last 11 years now on a ship away from home and family.So it's my right too to have my opinions too same as you.Too many bleeding heart liberals,too many anti-christians,too many illegals,too many on public assistance/welfare and too many bad politicians is a good start.
So say what you want,don't make me a rat's tail to me one way or another.My mom knows what hunger and poverty is.Her grand parents came from Germany.My wife knows what extreme poverty and a hard life is she came from the Philippines.She came here legally too.They will not take or accept welfare or any assistance.Proud to be an American too.

 

[kerley]

Thank you for serving and protecting our country. We know how hard it is to be away from your home and family. Very familiar with the program. There are some moments in life that stand clear for your whole life. One of those for me, my wife and daughters was graduation in Great Lakes for my son. I remember the officer that gave a speech saying that "everyone in this assembly can sleep tonight knowing that these brave men and women stand guard over them" another was when the Navy gave my wife our son's flag and told her "on behalf of a Grateful Nation". Your family sounds a lot like ours and I am sure most of the people on this board and in America; diverse, hardworking and proud. My son served his country because he grew up in a house with generations of vets: dad, uncles (one at Pearl 12/07/41), cousins, grandparents and great granddad (WWI Germany). And generations of hard working legal immigrants who have always worked for a living. God Bless you and your family, Brahma. We can all sleep well tonight knowing that another brave American is standing guard.