Protein requirements

Help Support CattleToday:

If you will notice most feeds have Hydrolyzed feather meal. That's not the same as chicken feathers.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Swine were put on earth as scavengers. Cattle were not put here to eat feathers, meat or bone meal and other food for scavengers.
But of course modern man thinks he is smarter in his ways than _ _ _.
 
Last edited:
Some very good comments that are based on actual protein needed. More please.
And I started this thread with the idea to get some comments. Not really seeking to change what I'm doing but I'm always learning.
Is there a point, let's say with a 400lb calf, that a higher % protein will be too much and just go out the rear end?

I have given up trying to guess, I let the cattle tell me what they need. I feed a 20% protein pellet, almond hulls which have good energy but very low protein, and cheap hay free choice to my weaned. bulls. I found by letting the animals choose how much protein they wanted to eat they did better.
 
When figuring protein, energy, DM, etc, be sure to take the moisture out. Moisture has no nutritional value. Alfalfa at 20% protein fed 10#/day, with 10% moisture would be getting
1.8# crude protein, not 2.0#.

Too much protein can cause acidosis.

Hope this helps.
You cannot remove the moisture nor can the animal except perhaps for math exercises. It is what it is. You bought it on a as fed basis you feed it that way as well.
 
This is a very educational thread. I will be the first to admit that I am no expert on this. But the bioavailability of and the type of protein is also a big factor as @GoWyo said. Lots of cheaper feeds that may say "high protein" actually are made from chicken feathers which are not a good source of protein for cattle. While chicken feathers are super high in protein, they lack the required amino acids that cattle need. Some of the cheaper lick tubs that claim high protein use feathers as the primary source of protein.
Around here, the poultry capital of the south, people feed chicken litter. Chicken sh*t and feathers. It is mixed with other things most of the time. A friend who feeds about 1000 calves a year, uses this, cotton gin trash, mash from the local Budweiser plant, and sorghum silage. He has a grinder that holds a Cat (** rubber tire loader bucket full of all 4 at one time, and after it grinds and mixes, it is discharged into one of his auger trucks. He has 1000 acres and 400 he uses to raise the silage.The other 600 acres of "pasture" doesn't have a blade of grass on it. Looks like an Ohkahoma feed lot. Dude really has it going on. He gets paid to clean out chicken houses and spreads some on people's pastures and hayfileds. He gets the cotton hulls for frew for hauling it off. Gets paid by Budweiser to haul off the mash and sells some to other cattle men. His only expense is the silage.
 
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Swine were put on earth as scavengers. Cattle were not put here to eat feathers, meat or bone meal and other food for scavengers.
But of course modern man thinks he is smarter in his ways than _ _ _.
Cattle were made to eat forage.

Not lick tubs, not liquid feed, etc.
But people buy them as a supplement trying to make poor forage better.
 
You cannot remove the moisture nor can the animal except perhaps for math exercises. It is what it is. You bought it on a as fed basis you feed it that way as well.
Why then, when we send in forage tests the results come back showing the feed with moisture and on dry matter basis. When testing hay and say it tests 10% moisture, is 10% protein, and you feed 20# of it, you don't get 2.0 # of protein, you get 1.8# of protein, so you know how much more protein you need to add to get to the daily requirement. The moisture is taken out to figure the pounds of Protein and Energy because again, moisture has no nutritional value. Take the moisture out and you can see the nutrition actually in the feed.
 
Why then, when we send in forage tests the results come back showing the feed with moisture and on dry matter basis. When testing hay and say it tests 10% moisture, is 10% protein, and you feed 20# of it, you don't get 2.0 # of protein, you get 1.8# of protein, so you know how much more protein you need to add to get to the daily requirement. The moisture is taken out to figure the pounds of Protein and Energy because again, moisture has no nutritional value. Take the moisture out and you can see the nutrition actually in the feed.
Shown only as a "what if". You cannot feed on a dry matter basis. Moisture is real, it exists and is part of the ration.
 
Shown only as a "what if". You cannot feed on a dry matter basis. Moisture is real, it exists and is part of the ration.
When I visit with beef producers about their feeding program, I often sense confusion when I talk feed dry matter (DM) values or express intakes on a DM basis. Most producers, when they think of their feeding program, think "as fed" and have difficulty converting to DM. Getting this conversion correct, however, is critical to understanding not only if you are providing the right amount of feed to your cattle, but also influences the daily intake of essential nutrients. Mistakes in converting from "as fed" to "DM" or vice versa can be costly and as such I would like to start out the New Year with a column that focuses on the importance of understanding this conversion.





Perhaps the best example to illustrate the importance of this conversion is with cereal silage. Typical corn or barley silage harvested at the correct stage of maturity will have 35 per cent DM and 65 per cent moisture. What this implies is that one pound of silage has 0.35 of a pound of DM; the rest is moisture. It is also important to note that the nutrients are associated with the DM not the moisture. As a producer who is used to feeding hay, you might feel that 30 pounds of silage is more than enough to fill up a 1,300-pound cow. However, because of the moisture in the silage, that animal is only receiving (30 x 0.35) 10.5 pounds of DM. In contrast, feeding 30 pounds of hay at 87 per cent DM equates to 26 pounds of DM. If you only feed 30 pounds of silage, you have one hungry cow!


This example also highlights the importance of understanding how you express the nutrient content of your feed. As a diligent reader of this column, you had a feed test on your silage and noted that it came back on an "as fed" basis at four per cent crude protein and 22 per cent total digestible nutrients (TDN). At first glance, your impression is that this silage is extremely poor with respect to quality. However, when expressed on a DM basis, which can be done by dividing the "as fed" nutrient value by the DM content (i.e. four per cent crude protein/0.35), the protein content is 11 per cent and the TDN is 63 per cent, a much higher-quality feed. A similar calculation applies to the value of the silage. In the pit, the silage might be worth $60 per tonne; however, on a dry matter basis, it is worth ($60/0.35) $171 per tonne.


Feed consumption can also be expressed on an "as fed" or "dry matter" basis. Grain- and/or hay-based diets are typically 85 to 88 per cent DM, while addition of silage to the ration reduces DM content to the point where straight silage is typically 35 per cent DM as discussed above. Nutritionists express an animal's requirement for specific nutrients as absolute amounts per day (i.e. pounds of TDN or protein, Mcal of net energy) or as a proportion of the diet DM (i.e. TDN per cent, CP per cent, Mcal/kg NE). In either case, you need to know how much DM an animal consumes in order to put the right combination of feeds together that matches its nutrient needs. By so doing, when we compare feeds or feeding programs, we compare "apples to apples."
The amount of feed an animal consumes varies with age, weight, level of production (i.e. pregnancy, lactation, growth) and environment. It will also vary with the amount of moisture in the feed and the quality of the feed. Consider a 1,300-pound beef cow. Typically, this animal would be expected to consume two per cent of her body weight on a DM basis or 26 pounds of DM daily. This equates to 30 pounds of hay at 87 per cent DM, or 74 pounds of silage at 35 per cent DM. However, as discussed above, feed quality has a great influence. Poor-quality forages such as straw or slough hay will be consumed at much lower levels (i.e. 1.25 to 1.5 per cent of body weight, DM basis), while with higher-quality forages such as alfalfa or alfalfa grass hay, DM intakes will approach 2.5 per cent of body weight. In the case of feeding the poor-quality forage, it will be essential to provide supplemental feed to ensure optimal nutrition while with the alfalfa hay, you may actually have to restrict intake to prevent your cows from becoming over-conditioned.
With feeder cattle, it is common to find DM intake expressed as either "pounds of feed DM per day" or "DM intake as a per cent of body weight." For example, calves that are healthy and eating well typically have a DM intake that equates to 2.5 per cent of their body weight. A 650-pound calf at 2.5 per cent of body weight consumes (650 x 0.025) 16 pounds of DM. If the diet is 70 per cent dry matter, then the "as fed" intake is (16/0.7) 23 pounds per head per day. However, as time on feed increases and as the calf gains weight, DM intake expressed as a percent of body weight declines to the point where cattle are eating at a level less than two per cent of their body weight. Actual pounds of DM consumed, however, increases as the animal gains weight throughout most of the feeding period.
The take-home message is understanding feed DM intake is key to understanding cattle nutrition; all it takes is a little math and practice.


ABOUT THE AUTHOR

John McKinnon

John McKinnon

Contributor
 
I am able to keep more animal units per acre but feel I am not getting the weaning weights I did when just letting them eat what they wanted. They do a much better job of utilizing the grasses because I make them use all of them instead of just the best. Kinda like making a kid eat the vegetables.
 
I am able to keep more animal units per acre but feel I am not getting the weaning weights I did when just letting them eat what they wanted. They do a much better job of utilizing the grasses because I make them use all of them instead of just the best. Kinda like making a kid eat the vegetables.
I guess the question would be, Are more animal units able to make up for the lower weaning weights?

I'm asking because I'm also seeing lower weaning weights since I've stopped planting and fertilizing winter pastures.

However as best as I can see economically, it's been a wash. Genetics of the cow seem to be the major contributing factor to the lower weaning weights. I still have a few Brangus as well as a few Brangus/Hereford cows that still raise a 500+ pound calf in 6 months without the winter pasture. Haven't seen any of the Angus or Angus/Hereford cows do that. Their calves run 435-475. But even that is close to a wash as I've had 4 that topped the market in their weight class this year alone. 3 of those were Angus/Hereford bred to Brangus.

"Economically" has a bunch of rabbit holes to explore.
 
Why then, when we send in forage tests the results come back showing the feed with moisture and on dry matter basis. When testing hay and say it tests 10% moisture, is 10% protein, and you feed 20# of it, you don't get 2.0 # of protein, you get 1.8# of protein, so you know how much more protein you need to add to get to the daily requirement. The moisture is taken out to figure the pounds of Protein and Energy because again, moisture has no nutritional value. Take the moisture out and you can see the nutrition actually in the feed.
been visiting for a while but haven't posted, just soaking up the knowledge on here. When you have a feedstuff that's 10% protein and 10% moisture, 10 lbs of that feed has 1 lb. protein and 1 lb. moisture. The 100% dry matter analysis will show 11.11% protein. Removing all of the moisture to arrive at the 100% DM specs will concentrate and raise the nutrient percentages compared to the "as fed" numbers.
DM numbers are helpful to compare nutrient levels of feedstuffs of different moisture levels. "As fed" numbers represent what the animal is actually consuming.
 
been visiting for a while but haven't posted, just soaking up the knowledge on here. When you have a feedstuff that's 10% protein and 10% moisture, 10 lbs of that feed has 1 lb. protein and 1 lb. moisture. The 100% dry matter analysis will show 11.11% protein. Removing all of the moisture to arrive at the 100% DM specs will concentrate and raise the nutrient percentages compared to the "as fed" numbers.
DM numbers are helpful to compare nutrient levels of feedstuffs of different moisture levels. "As fed" numbers represent what the animal is actually consuming.
It raises the numbers only on paper. Nothing about the feed has changed one iota.
 
Top