protein blocks and tubs

[Running Arrow Bill]

How many longhorns do you run on this 22 acres.

We presently have 27 Longhorns (calves, cows, bulls) for total of 18 Animal Units. Also have 8 horses assigned to about 7 of these acres. Obviously, we are into intensive management practices; otherwise we'd be seriously overstocked on this amount of acres.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Maybe it's wider so they can get their horns in to eat to the money

dun

Nope, Dun. Same diameter...lol.

We've purchased registered Longhorns from Missouri, Ohio, Kansas, Okla, and Texas for our breeding stock. Grass and forage varies considerably depending on the location. The longhorns that came from large registered herds on the larger ranches were in the poorest condition when they arrived here...was it management? forage? competition from dominant animals? Lack of adequate minerals? Who knows...just what happened in our case. We think the minerals played a large part in our management program here to improve the condition of cattle we received here. Of course, quality hay and forage was very important too.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

going to try some 30% protein tubs
Bill

What's your forage base, newspapers?

I must have the wrong idea about this business. If they can't make it on the forage with maybe a little supplement during the coldest/snow part of winter, they need to find new homes. Preferably in the freezer.

dun

Forage base is native bermudagrass. Hay we feed varies between about 8 and 14% protein. We've tried haygrazer, redtop cane, bluestem, and bermuda in round bales. Bermuda has been the best with less waste even in a round bale feeder. YES...with plenty of pasture forage and mineral supplement they CAN survive and look good without supplemental hay except in winter. The ranchers around here that have bought our breeding stock DO have proper pasture. We just have to keep our animals' condition up due to our intensive management (due to limited acreage).

Like I said on another post, we've only put one yearling bull in freezer due to what WE felt was not up to our standards for breeding (or sale to someone else). The cheapest weaned bull calf we have sold was $800. and, he was discounted since we sold the rancher a 3 in 1 package deal. Otherwise, our weaned calves start at $1,000.

 

[Bernard]

Now we use a special formulated tub for Longhorns and they lick the tubs clean! If you are anyone are interested in more information about these, e-mail me.

For those who are tired of feeding plain old deer corn I have buck corn available.

Craig-TX

And if that isn't exotic enough, I know where you can get your hands on some buck snort corn that's guaranteed to bring 'em in...or, run 'em off... I forget.

 

[plbcattle]

i think that the registered breeders feed their cattle a little more extra to keep them in a little better shape. i have made my cattle make it on the bare bones of what the land provides. I also pamper my registered herd of Brangus cattle. top brangus genetics more than pays for the extra feeding. most guys that pay $2-4 thousand for a heifer and $5-10 thousand for a top donor cow want them to be in tip top shape. bulls that sell for up to $30,000 are not raised on grass alone(this may be news to most of you). I was just trying to get imput as to what most of you were doing. your average set of range cows that would bring $1000-$1500 per head probably doesn;t need the extra. Most registered breeders of Brangus average around $3000 per animal(AI and ET calves)

 

[certherfbeef]

i think that the registered breeders feed their cattle a little more extra to keep them in a little better shape.

Well you know what...it may be news to you too...not every purebred breeder babies their cattle. I don't have an outragious feed bill. My registered cattle are treated no better than my commercial herd. And I make just as much selling the cross breds as i do selling the purebreds. They all eat the same crappy hay all winter long. They are easy doing and I will not have one on the place that needs 5 gal of grain a day to maintain herself. Some people may, but not me. If I grained these cattle all winter, I end up with no profit. That is not my idea of a well spent winter.

It is people like those that "baby" the purebreds that hinder the rest of us in the eyes of folks like Texan and Caustic. And in turn they think we are all bad.

Sorry if this offends you, but I'll bet, Txag will agree with me here.

 

[la4angus]

That is not my idea of a well spent winter.

It is people like those that "baby" the purebreds that hinder the rest of us in the eyes of folks like Texan and Caustic. And in turn they think we are all bad.

Sorry if this offends you, but I'll bet, Txag will agree with me here.

I have to agree about the well spent winter. Here they do it on ryegrass and hay with a protein supplement

 

[TheBullLady]

Hmm.. I guess I'm right in the middle of y'all on this one.

We don't feed the tubs, primarily because they are expensive, IMO, for what you get out of them. In this part of the country they are primarily used for folks that aren't living on their ranch.. kind of a "something for them to eat until I get there" kind of thing. You can buy feed with more benefits / less cost, but you have to take the time to feed it.

We do feed the cows in the winter.. generally a 10-12% milled mix. Not every day, and the first calf heifers more than the cows. I have to confess, I have kept a few cows that look like heck after calving, but have a calf that will make up for the extra "pampering". Just my preference.

 

[plbcattle]

i am not saying that these registered cattle will not preform the same on grass as commercial. If you are making the same on your registered cattle as your commercial either you are selling sub par registered or getting unheard of prices for your commercial cattle. my point is to sell cattle that range from $2500-$5000 ayou will need to add a little extra kick to them

 

[OldTex]

my point is to sell cattle that range from $2500-$5000 ayou will need to add a little extra kick to them

Good luck and keep dreaming.

 

[certherfbeef]

my point is to sell cattle that range from $2500-$5000 ayou will need to add a little extra kick to them

Good luck and keep dreaming.

What happens when someone buys them and expects them to do good on fescue and snowballs? They deflate and you lose a customer.

 

[plbcattle]

i guess you are not getting my point. there is not a donor cow in the country that is not feed a little extra to keep them in tip top shape. I am not saying to give them 2% of there body weight everyday. to the person who said keep dreaming. I guess you have never seen what a registered bull or heifer out of a top donor from a top cow family goes for. I have a donor that I sold 6 heifers for $22,100. so I guess I will keep dreaming. I have a bull that is going to sell out of one of my best donor cows that will probably bring $20,000-25000 as a 18 month old. I am not saying that is the norm but before you make claims like that please be a little more educated on what you are talking about

 

[OldTex]

I am not saying that is the norm but before you make claims like that please be a little more educated on what you are talking about

I AM. That's why I said "Keep Dreaming

 

[la4angus]

I have a bull that is going to sell out of one of my best donor cows that will probably bring $20,000-25000 as a 18 month old.

Don't forget that you will be on the selling end this time instead of the buying end

 

[txshowmom]

plbcattle,

I would love to help you out here buddy but your fighting a loosing battle with these guys. I agree with what you are saying but take my advice and get off the subject. They don't agree and will NEVER agree nor will they agree to disagree. Suck it up, be the bigger person, and move on to another subject. ;-)

 

[dun]

We must be doing something wrong. Grain only when it snowed or we had a severe cold spell, the only hay they ate was when they had eaten everything there was in the small calving pens, the rest of it was just stockpiled fescue. We were worried because they all got too fat over the winter, even the heifers.

dun

 

[Texan]

They don't agree and will NEVER agree nor will they agree to disagree.

I don't agree with PLB and RA Bill about keeping out protein all the time. And you're right, Showmom. I will never agree with it. That represents a tremendous waste of money to me. But I have a question. Why does it even matter if anybody agrees with you? If it works for you, continue to do it!

I would expect most buyers prefer a little better condition on cattle that they pay more money for. Then we gripe when we turn 'em out and they lose that condition on pasture. That's probably not gonna change drastically any time soon, although forage based programs seem to be gaining in popularity. Eventually, I expect more money will move toward these cattle developed on grass. Or, maybe not. But I know that my money already has. When that happens, breeders will either have to join in or get left behind. But for now, flesh helps sell breeding cattle. Be honest about how you put it on there and let the buyer decide.

If it works for you now, continue to do it! Don't worry about what the rest of us think. That's my advice.

 

[cattle_gal]

Lets look at it in the prospective of if you called a feed rep from a dependable company.

What would be the first things talked about.

The fed rep would want to know before suggesting a product what kind of grasses and hay you have and the amount of cattle you have per acre. You would either say you don't know what the TDN is in the grasses and hay or you would show him the test results. If you don't then he'll take a sample and get it tested and come back with the results.

If the cattle have lots of grass but aren't utilizing it he should if he's any good recommend a mineral program so the cows will get the right mix of mineral and a mineral that will get the cattles guts to working and utilize the grasses.

I have tried to a few years to get a couple of my range neighbors to go to a good mineral that promotes utilization of existing grasses. They give there cattle protien tubs. There is so much grass out there but the cattle don't eat it. They will stand around picking some and loose weight and then the protien tub makes the cattle stick in a closer proximity yet.

For me the use of the right mineral keeps the cows happy and full, me happy and the government happy, when we are on federal allotments, that the cattle are not in the bottom water areas - Aka - so called riparian.

This includes my registered cattle -which is about 1/3 of them. They have to work just as much as any other cow. This is a great indicator of what genetics are self sufficient and grow a good calf. Right now they have to nose through a foot of snow. That's how I can tell real performance genetics.

If one is in an area that doesn't not grow enough grass or good grass to support a cows weight then one has to look at an alternative to keep the cattles weight proper.

Now reading about having plump registered cattle. I know of a Charolais breeder in MT that does feed them extra just to have the well fleshed look for when people come to examine the cattle for future purchases. Do I as a buyer and a seller of registered stock think that is a great
thing to do. No. As a buyer if see a well fleshed cow/bull and bring her/him home and boom that cow loses weight and turns out shelly living in the same conditions as my other cattle I'm going to be one mad person. Nothing gets the word out more about a breeder than bad publicity. If I'm looking to buy a cow I want to see what the real cloths are and the environment that cow/bull lives in. I've got a bull coming to me next spring which if another breeder would have bought would probably be taking to shows and looking super fleshed. I made sure that this bull will only be given a moderate ration more forage, so he will be in his every day cloths when he gets here for AI and natural breeding. Now as a seller can I feel good about selling cattle to a customer of any grazing conditions. One customer has lots of grass and another has lots of acres and sparse grass. Is the one customer who has poor grazing going to come back to me and say this cow/bull stayed great fleshed and
better than my other cattle or is he going to come back and say this cow looked like it was going to die with in a month of arrival. If it is negative then I have lost a customer and I have lost lots of potential customers because of the negative word of mouth.

There are lots of buyers of registered stock, more in the midwest than up here in MT, who will take the over fleshed cows - donor, ect and have the same feed regimen. Will they know the difference on how this cow/bull would look in everyday cloths? Nope.

 

[hillbilly]

Bill,
I think I understand but I was a commercial breeder that for whatever reason bought or leased one of your bulls, thinking he wasn't a typical longhorn geneticly because of his body condition. Then found out he only
looked good because of abnormal suplimintation, I would be upset.

If you fed a cha-wa-wa[sp?] 5 lbs. of steak a day and got him up to 50#
He would still be a cha-wa-wa!

Hillbilly

 

[txshowmom]

If you fed a cha-wa-wa[sp?] 5 lbs. of steak a day and got him up to 50#
He would still be a cha-wa-wa!

I would love t see a 50# Chihuahua! Its not possible. You can feed a cow all it can eat 24/7 and it will NOT grow to be 5 -10 times the size of a noramal cow.