Price gouging vs profit opportunity

[smartin0022]

If I take 1 cow that gives me a steer, I sure as heck make more money than $180 - even with a yearly expense per cow of $750 (which I doubt very many of you have that much yearly expense per cow) - my steers have averaged over $1000/hd. Granted, I don't have 1/2 my calf crop being sold as "cheaper" heifers (lower price/lb).
But, how does anyone stay in business with "75% calving year vs an 85% year". If I lost 15% calf crop, I definitely would be losing

I doubt very highly you have a better than avg 85% calf crop. Free choice loose breeders elite mineral all year long and summer grazing on fair to good pasture. I cull em when they are outside the 90 day window. I consider that one or 10 a year cow cull as a loss of calf especially if winter education. The cows have everything they need the bulls are always BSE'd the AI cows are 60% bred. In 22 years I've had one year of 100% calving. Usually 85%. I don't know how you are getting such a high calf rate but maybe you are better than I am at farming. $180 profit is an avg over 22 years some years are better some are worse. When we ran 160 mommas the cull rate was usually around 15 a year on cows and 30% on replacement heifers. This is commercial herds (the majority) sold at the yards or by private treaty. I only take them to the slaughter house for myself or family. $180 per head in my area is a pretty avg # from the hundred or so farmers I know and talk with that's all expense included plus the farm taxes. When i say my area the slop line or syrup line at our distillery has about 4 tankers a day from west Virginia to TN and anywhere in between picking up 5000-7000 gallons of syrup a day. Plus the small operations like mine getting 1000 gallons here and there. Are you doing the real math or excluding some things? I want the actual # from my operation not the pretty looking # for a farm loan or projection.

 

[callmefence]

I'm not re writing it I wrote it all out and math not worth my time to do it again. I avg 1.5 bales per acre avg at 1400 lbs to an acre. Yes it cost me about $20 per bale to produce including all cost not just some cost like most people figure. I figure everything except my time. I enjoy tractor work. I'm not digging out the taxes to lay it all out. Best of luck to anyone who makes it on $50 hay and has a real tangible profit. I have my doubts unless they are feeding less than 3 bales a year. You wouldn't make it in my area paying that. I live in cow country everyone around here has the same type operations everyone uses supplements and few waste money on fertilizer or high quality grass hay. Profit at the end of the day is the goal or should be unless you are a hobby farmer which I suspect.

Like I said the math don't lie but you can lie to the math. Course I guess it ain't lying if you don't get it...

 

[smartin0022]

Like I said the math don't lie but you can lie to the math. Course I guess it ain't lying if you don't get it...

"Keyboard cowboy" below your handle. Seems fitting. I did the math fella. Many times. Best of luck to you in your hobby farming endeavors.

 

[callmefence]

"Keyboard cowboy" below your handle. Seems fitting. I did the math fella. Many times. Best of luck to you in your hobby farming endeavors.

Sorry if I offended you

Your the one with a job at the distillery. so who's the hobby farmer.?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Hmm - I've only been doing this for 50 years. Yes, I consider 85% calf crop a failure. Up until last year, I have been 100% AI for 60 day calving seasons - Jan/Feb and Sept/Oct.
I only run 50 breeding animals, of which, I have five 8-10 years old, and seven 11-16 years old still spitting out calves every year. I do let one slide from one season to the next - ONCE. My cows are too valuable to just cull for one mistake. It costs way too much to replace one.
Like I said, my costs and sales cannot be compared to most herds (even purebred herds) but I was pointing out 85% is a disaster for me. Out of 50 cows, that would be 7-8 culls or dead calves. Yikes!
We all have different operations, different locations. What works for you won't work for someone else. I feed 6 months of the year here.

 

[Silver]

a 75% calving year vs an 85% year

Yikes.

 

[simme]

% calf crop is a big factor in profit. Unless there was a one time problem with a bull, it seems to me that addressing that issue would be a high priority for a BTO. I think that nutrition and body condition prior to breeding and a period afterwards are key factors in fertility and % calf crop. Any experienced cow person would agree that less time on pedicures and more effort on nutrition and fertility is better for the bottom line.

 

[Rmc]

Is the cheap hay because of low %of calf crop or is low calf crop a result of cheap hay?
So how much is the free product from the distillery actually costing you .?
How about time ? Storage ? Transportation? Or do you have a magic vehicle that gets the same gas mileage and wear and tear on it regardless of wether it is loaded or empty? Or is it a fuel efficient car that you could be using to get to work if tou weren't hauling "free" feed home for the cows.
In my area it is cheaper to feed feeder quality alfalfa hay then it is to feed cheep grass hay. Way less expensive and time consuming to feed alfalfa as a primary source of nutrients and minerals. Then feed low tdn grass hay and then have add minerals and this and that to feed program to try to make up for the short fall in the feed . Research has also proven higher fertility rates , higher weaning weights , ect. When alfalfa is fed.
I Can't afford to feed cheap grass hay here.

 

[chaded]

About 20 years ago a co-worker and I were doing some side work in the evenings after work, doing carpenter work. It was at a game ranch, owned by a man who had inherited millions, and didn't mind spending it on things that most people would consider frivolous.

I don't remember what we were charging him, but it was quite a bit, and he didn't blink an eye. That was profit opportunity.

If we'd charged the same rate to a poor widow, or a single mother, that would have been price gouging.

It was nice of you to only price gouge the rich guy and not the poor widows and single mothers.

 

[smartin0022]

Is the cheap hay because of low %of calf crop or is low calf crop a result of cheap hay?
So how much is the free product from the distillery actually costing you .?
How about time ? Storage ? Transportation? Or do you have a magic vehicle that gets the same gas mileage and wear and tear on it regardless of wether it is loaded or empty? Or is it a fuel efficient car that you could be using to get to work if tou weren't hauling "free" feed home for the cows.
In my area it is cheaper to feed feeder quality alfalfa hay then it is to feed cheep grass hay. Way less expensive and time consuming to feed alfalfa as a primary source of nutrients and minerals. Then feed low tdn grass hay and then have add minerals and this and that to feed program to try to make up for the short fall in the feed . Research has also proven higher fertility rates , higher weaning weights , ect. When alfalfa is fed.
I Can't afford to feed cheap grass hay here.

wether it is loaded or empty?
Wether is a male sheep I assume you meant "whether it is loaded or empty?"
Irregardless of your foiled attempt to join the bandwagon let's lay it out for the simpletons here is how it works. I drive to my insurance providing 401k providing job. I drive the cummins with a tank in it I write off 100% because I'm picking up cow feed empty and loaded. I write off tires, I write off fuel, battery's, oil changes, any repairs. So yeah it's as free as you could ever fathom. Storage cost me money? NO. My time negative, I was going anyways. It's starting to sound pretty magical isn't it. Age doesn't constitute wisdom.
If 85% calf crop is poor you folks ought to be writing books for the world on how to farm. 85% avg over 22 years isn't bad at all. I still make a profit cull cows written off.
Do you know what full breech means on a Sunday afternoon? Do you ever have a calf with a leg back you didn't catch in time? Do you have cattle? I also stated if you read anything I wrote I consider an open cow a lost calf. So I guess if I did magical math like some of you folks my #'s would be like 95% calving success with my horrible (profitable) regimen. But I don't count an open cow that way, she either slipped or failed to breed back and that is a lost calf in my world. So if my # the way you jackals figure it is 95% calving success because open cattle are now considered to not be a part of the equation I must be in the upper quadrant of the cattle today queens. Poor hay? Who said cheap hay? $30 a bale and it prolly test as good as what most are peddling on here. I don't think $30 hay is cheap and I never said it was cheap. I raise alfalfa to sell to horse folks cause they got money to burn . Grass hay for cows cheap in your opinion has me calving at about 95% with your groups magical math. Keep trying, stupidity does cost money long term. I'll keep with my "cheap hay" and my new magical calving percentages and have a magical time farming my way into a magical retirement. Yall might do her different and keep at it cause sounds like you the best educated group of blow hards I ever had the pleasure of exchanging magical words with.

 

[Rmc]

Write off or not it still costs money for fuel,insurance,maintenance of vehicle used to haul feed. Glad to know your time isn't worth anything.
Try feeding your ration to cows for up to six weeks when the high temp of the day never reaches into the double digits.
Contrary to your statements there are way more ways to successfully raise cattle for a profit then just the way you do it.
Many have figured out that feeding alfalfa is far cheaper in the long run , with far more benefit's and cost savings then feeding grass hay +minerals + additional supplements. It also means less sickness in the herd higher fertility,higher weaning weights.
Many different ways to raise cattle for a profit. Especially in totally different environments all across the North America and the world. What works in one environment won't work in a different one.

 

[wbvs58]

Sorry if I offended you

Your the one with a job at the distillery. so who's the hobby farmer.?

I'm a hobby farmer and proud of it.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am not a hobby farmer. Small "rancher", but not hobby. @smartin0022 - sounds like you have a plan that is working for you.
I rarely lose a calf at calving - but sh$t happens to all of us. My little girls are way too valuable to not spend a lot of time observing at calving. I have cameras set up and keep a tight calving season which sure helps observation.
@Rmc I don't have access to alfalfa, but we put up great baleage. Usually, tests 14-16% protein. Nutrition is highly linked to successful breeding programs. Last year switched to Vita Ferms' Concept Aid mineral. Got them even tighter.

 

[callmefence]

I've been trying to figure out the hay deal. Is it me or do the numbers keep moving. How can 11/2 4x5 per acre be valued at 20.00? That's not very good yields here more less in cow to 2 acre county. And how does someone who figured everything not count time ...idk...I sharpened my pencil but I stuck myself in the eye.

I am not a hobby farmer. Small "rancher", but not hobby. @smartin0022 - sounds like you have a plan that is working for you.
I rarely lose a calf at calving - but sh$t happens to all of us. My little girls are way too valuable to not spend a lot of time observing at calving. I have cameras set up and keep a tight calving season which sure helps observation.
@Rmc I don't have access to alfalfa, but we put up great baleage. Usually, tests 14-16% protein. Nutrition is highly linked to successful breeding programs. Last year switched to Vita Ferms' Concept Aid mineral. Got them even tighter.

I feel the same way Jeanne. First don't call me a farmer at all lol. Small rancher and hay producer works for me. I want to see income off the land I'm lucky enough to have. Much of my equipment from my profession crosses over. I'm tickled to be able to do what I do but it does have to make some money.
I find it interesting that smartin says he doesn't count his time because he enjoys doing it........ that's a hobby ain't it??

 

[Otha]

I've been trying to figure out the hay deal. Is it me or do the numbers keep moving. How can 11/2 4x5 per acre be valued at 20.00? That's not very good yields here more less in cow to 2 acre county. And how does someone who figured everything not count time ...idk...I sharpened my pencil but I stuck myself in the eye.

I feel the same way Jeanne. First don't call me a farmer at all lol. Small rancher and hay producer works for me. I want to see income off the land I'm lucky enough to have. Much of my equipment from my profession crosses over. I'm tickled to be able to do what I do but it does have to make some money.
I find it interesting that smartin says he doesn't count his time because he enjoys doing it........ that's a hobby ain't it??

I agree with the yield statement. If the land can run a cow per 2 acres it wouldn't take much fertilizer to get a hay field to make 8-12,000 pounds of hay per year on 3 cuttings. I'll leave out the bales per acre so we don't get confused on that again.

 

[callmefence]

I agree with the yield statement. If the land can run a cow per 2 acres it wouldn't take much fertilizer to get a hay field to make 8-12,000 pounds of hay per year on 3 cuttings. I'll leave out the bales per acre so we don't get confused on that again.

Or how can you run a cow per 2 acres on country that only yields 1400 pounds of hay. ...is running the cows in the field and cutting hay in the woods..idk..... confused again..............

 

[smartin0022]

Or how can you run a cow per 2 acres on country that only yields 1400 pounds of hay. ...is running the cows in the field and cutting hay in the woods..idk..... confused again..............

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Without regard to the type of hay you feed anyone content with an 85% calf crop is in the process of going out of business.

 

[smartin0022]

You can stay confused it's legit #'s look at all the other people like me who have bad math apparently because you're not able to figure it with your really sharp sharp pencil. I said the country is estimated to hold 1 cow per 2 acres I don't run off those estimates. 1.5 bale per acre avg. Doesn't mean one farm isn't putting up better and one much worse. Who said I didn't lime with 300,000 lbs every 3rd year from a quarry and rent a spreader. Who said the landowner didn't pay for that? When you don't know anything about anything you'll always stay confused and on the fence.

 

[Otha]

You can stay confused it's legit #'s look at all the other people like me who have bad math apparently because you're not able to figure it with your really sharp sharp pencil. I said the country is estimated to hold 1 cow per 2 acres I don't run off those estimates. 1.5 bale per acre avg. Doesn't mean one farm isn't putting up better and one much worse. Who said I didn't lime with 300,000 lbs every 3rd year from a quarry and rent a spreader. Who said the landowner didn't pay for that? When you don't know anything about anything you'll always stay confused and on the fence.

Well we can only talk about the things you've told us about. "don't know anything about anything" seems a bit harsh for a group of people spending their time trying to talk and learn about what other cattle producers are doing.