Pregnant, But When???

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boondocks

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SO I've got a possible puzzler. Here goes. AI'd a cow last summer and vet pregchecked her 31 days later. (I think she used ultrasound, as we usually wait til more like 40 days minimum). Cow was open, so we did another round of timed AI and she "took." That would have her due June 14. However, she is as big, or bigger, than the cow that "took" on the first AI and is due May 3. The June 14-calver also is showing other very early signs--just a bit floppy in back, and maybe just slightly more noticeable bag (she does not usually have a big bag anyway).

I thought that perhaps the vet missed the call on the first time since it was so early (ie, she was actually pregnant), but even if so, wouldn't the AI meds (GnRh, Lute, CIDR) have likely caused her to miscarry? So then, is it more likely she is bigger than expected because she has twins? We have not had twins yet. (She's had 3 singletons).
Related question: would the ultrasound have shown the twins that early?
I may run this past the vet as well but thought I'd see what y'all think....She is not our biggest cow. The one I'd be LEAST likely to want twins from. Of course....
 

Black and Good

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All those options are possible. I would have thought the Lute would have made her abort as well. Off what you've said I would suspect possibly twins. B&G
 

SIMMGAL

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I've learned over the years that just about anything is possible with cattle. Could be twins, could be the earlier AI date, could be any of it! I've heard of cattle retaining pregnancies through synch protocols, but to retain one in that early of a stage would be difficult. I do know that almost all of my spring calvers calved early this year for some reason, yours might too! Time tends to give the most answers! Just watch her closely if you're concerned about twins. Best of luck with her!
 

MRRherefords

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Black and Good":3fiq444g said:
All those options are possible. I would have thought the Lute would have made her abort as well. Off what you've said I would suspect possibly twins. B&G
X2. I also would have thought that the lute would have rid anything in there.
 
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boondocks

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Thanks for the comments, all. She is holding steady but def bigger than she usually is with 2 months still to go.
 

Jessica06

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Not all cows are going to have enough fluid to call them bred at 31 days. Once they are about 33 days, 95+% will be easily identifiable, and by 35 days it is nearly impossible to miss one if you get a good look at the whole tract. 31 days IMPO is too short to call one open definitively. Another check at 35 days would have been preferable to starting the sync protocol over again, as she shouldn't be coming back in naturally until the next day if she was really open. And on second thought, you'd lose less time and money if you just watched her and patched her than starting the whole process over again.
 

Jessica06

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Lute does not have a 100% success rate, even if given early, so it's definitely possible that she could be bred from the first AI. I would definitely watch her close!
 
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boondocks

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ricebeltrancher":3bbbut5g said:
Lute does not have a 100% success rate, even if given early, so it's definitely possible that she could be bred from the first AI. I would definitely watch her close!

Thanks RB, will def do. We have a great LA vet (cattle farmer herself) and she was comfortable doing it (with ultrasound) at 31 days, although she does say that a positive test before day 40 cannot be relied on as they often will lose the pregnancy between day 30 and day 40. 31 days is the earliest we've ever done it and that was because (as I recall) it was a matter of either doing it at 31 days or else it would have been another 2 weeks before we could check them. We have since gone to a min of 35 days. We are keeping an eye out and hoping she is just bigger than usual.
 

alisonb

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boondocks":38ej74ag said:
wouldn't the AI meds (GnRh, Lute, CIDR) have likely caused her to miscarry?
GnRh & CIDR won't cause her to miscarry and as ricebeltrancher stated Lute does not have a 100% success rate...I'm thinking she took first time round ;-)
 
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boondocks

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alisonb":2obai0x9 said:
boondocks":2obai0x9 said:
wouldn't the AI meds (GnRh, Lute, CIDR) have likely caused her to miscarry?
GnRh & CIDR won't cause her to miscarry and as ricebeltrancher stated Lute does not have a 100% success rate...I'm thinking she took first time round ;-)


We are still watching her--I am surely not hoping for twins. Her milk production is the lowest of our cows. Of course! ;)
 

jkwilson

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After being around cows for more years than I can imagine, the only thing for sure about calving and breeding dates is that the calendar doesn't mean diddly when calf parts start coming out of the cow. Had one last night that I saw bred on July 30th and the vet guessed her due date as May 6th. Heifer didn't care what the calendar said and she delivered an 80lb heifer calf last night.

I've also had cows that I didn't know for sure when they were due make me sure that every day for 3 weeks was going to be the day.

Had cows look they were going to pop hold off and deliver weeks after a cow who looked like she wasn't even bred.

Maybe I need to hang a calendar and a mirror up by the water tanks so the cows can keep track.
 
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boondocks

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jkwilson":qufe27gu said:
After being around cows for more years than I can imagine, the only thing for sure about calving and breeding dates is that the calendar doesn't mean diddly when calf parts start coming out of the cow. Had one last night that I saw bred on July 30th and the vet guessed her due date as May 6th. Heifer didn't care what the calendar said and she delivered an 80lb heifer calf last night.

I've also had cows that I didn't know for sure when they were due make me sure that every day for 3 weeks was going to be the day.

Had cows look they were going to pop hold off and deliver weeks after a cow who looked like she wasn't even bred.

Maybe I need to hang a calendar and a mirror up by the water tanks so the cows can keep track.


:lol: I'm not that surprised your May 6 calf came April 24.That's well within my cows' normal window of 2 weeks "early." The one that's puzzling me, though, isn't supposedly due til mid-June. And she was AI bred (no bull in sight) so it is a bit of a puzzler why she's looking like a weeble.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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As stated above, Lute is not 100%. However, we have a heifer that we thought would calve any day ended up calving about 60 days later than we thought. Some spring earlier than others. Nevertheless, I would keep an eye on her.
 
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