Ashton V
Well-known member
Ok I've got a question. Do black baldies have problems with their eyes like herefords do?
We've had the same amount of trouble with black baldies, red baldies, brockle faces and Herefords NONE. The only cancer eye I ever saw was in a solid black cowAshton V":1jq7h0ca said:Ok I've got a question. Do black baldies have problems with their eyes like herefords do?
dun":32m2vq9s said:We've had the same amount of trouble with black baldies, red baldies, brockle faces and Herefords NONE. The only cancer eye I ever saw was in a solid black cowAshton V":32m2vq9s said:Ok I've got a question. Do black baldies have problems with their eyes like herefords do?
If you want to say NOT ENOUGH has been done - or that not enough has been done to disspell those old stigmas and to promote the improvement - then you might have a valid argument.
BLL CATTLE":17fyjk6m said:Hello tried two different times last night to reply to this issue. I have never needed to respond to these forums, always been happy to read and learn from the subjects and responses, but this decision has struck a nerve. Little history, I am a 4 genertion hereford rancher located in eastern Montana. Our family has relied on selling, breeding, producing registered hereford cattle since 1935. Along with our commercial hereford cows, the commercial cattleman business of the registered business has payed the bills all these years. I never said registered herefords paid the bills, I said commercial segment of the beef industry has paid our way. Their was a comment made about registered breeders the last 20 or 30 years and what they have done to improve the breed. MY familys first and passionate thought on this subject is,of our breed, that we are so loyal to, has not done enough to be excepted back into the beef industry. Why???? FOUR problems, first an assosiation that doesnt care about the commerical man, breeders that only care about padding there own pocket by selling un sound, un proven genetics that are single trait selected that wont do the commercial man any good, hard fleshing, large framed, large B.W, not problem free genetics as we all say. The other two problems are strait L1, and polled genetics. There I said it, two of the most popular lines going for the hereford breed. Yes I have introduced both into this old established herd since I have taken the reins, and have culled, cut and sold most of these genetics because they are not what my customers want. In 1993 I started with polled cattle because my customers asked for them, are they the same, NOT even close. Not a life time of breeding behind them but enough years to start to see some differents but have had more issues with these polleds than none of you can believe. Another thing is the L1, great number cattle on paper, but show me, hardiness, longevity, structure correctness and even fertility. Got the great Mile City production sale cataloge the other day and sure nice to see that they can still sell genetics out of cows that dont even have a calf every year or sell the drys to be foundation builders for someones herd. Hurts me more to admit that our breed is still being screwed with and has the possibitlity to return where we have been 20 years ago and not be able to sell our genetics to the beef industry. WE all better learn from history what happened to the hereford breed and start breeding the hardiness, ruggedness, longevity, maternal, calving ease, efficient hereford cow that is problem free, that made us once number ONE. All breeders, even me have to lisen to the industry and follow the commerical mans lead.
:clap: great first post BLL. As a commercial cattleman I don't know 1/100 of what guys like you and Knersie do about the breed. But I do love the Hereford. We had them most of my life growing up. If discussions like this are taking place here, then you can bet that other breeders are takingBLL CATTLE":26bqz9xv said:Hello tried two different times last night to reply to this issue. I have never needed to respond to these forums, always been happy to read and learn from the subjects and responses, but this decision has struck a nerve. Little history, I am a 4 genertion hereford rancher located in eastern Montana. Our family has relied on selling, breeding, producing registered hereford cattle since 1935. Along with our commercial hereford cows, the commercial cattleman business of the registered business has payed the bills all these years. I never said registered herefords paid the bills, I said commercial segment of the beef industry has paid our way. Their was a comment made about registered breeders the last 20 or 30 years and what they have done to improve the breed. MY familys first and passionate thought on this subject is,of our breed, that we are so loyal to, has not done enough to be excepted back into the beef industry. Why???? FOUR problems, first an assosiation that doesnt care about the commerical man, breeders that only care about padding there own pocket by selling un sound, un proven genetics that are single trait selected that wont do the commercial man any good, hard fleshing, large framed, large B.W, not problem free genetics as we all say. The other two problems are strait L1, and polled genetics. There I said it, two of the most popular lines going for the hereford breed. Yes I have introduced
both into this old established herd since I have taken the reins, and have culled, cut and sold most of these genetics because they are not what my customers want. In 1993 I started with polled cattle because my customers asked for them, are they the same, NOT even close. Not a life time of breeding behind them but enough years to start to see some differents but have had more issues with these polleds than none of you can believe. Another thing is the L1, great number cattle on
paper, but show me, hardiness, longevity, structure correctness and even fertility. Got the great Mile City production sale cataloge the other day and sure nice to see that they can still sell genetics out of cows that dont even have a calf every year or sell the drys to be foundation builders for someones herd. Hurts me more to admit that our breed is still being screwed with and
has the possibitlity to return where we have been 20 years ago and not be able to sell our genetics to the beef industry. WE all better learn from history what happened to the hereford breed and start breeding the hardiness, ruggedness, longevity, maternal, calving ease, efficient hereford cow that is problem free, that made us once number ONE. All breeders, even me have to lisen to the
industry and follow the commerical mans lead.
smnherf":1oz9ok6n said:BLL,
You sound like you are in the position I was in about 20 years ago. Lifetime of being in the Hereford business with my dad and Grandad selling bulls when I was pretty young. Hereford cattle have paid a lot of bills around here over the years. After buying top end Horned hereford bulls around the country and the results we were getting, most of the same things outlined in this poll and others not mentioned, I decided that we had to do things different. My brother pretty well gave up on Herefords and bred the Angus for many generations. I decided to build a better mouse trap. I probably got a little lucky and found a bull that reduced birthweight, reduced frame, improved udders, improved fleshing ability and had tremendous mothering ability early on and used him very hard. Never realized how good he truley was until I started using some of the more highly promoted AI bulls out on my cows and purchasing some outside cows. After collecting tons of data from feed conversion, to feedlot, carcass, cow weights and putting rigorous selection pressure on my cowherd and consistantly breeding the same type, I honestly do beleive that I do have something to offer the cattle industry other than just a white face. I am more than willing to discuss your experiences, not only what hasn't worked, but what is working for you currently. Feel free to pm or email anytime. And even my brother is back to using Hereford bulls.
Brian
donnaIL":3eymz8cn said:I like them, but the market pays less around here. Add marketing to the list.
3waycross":2bxvecby said:smnherf":2bxvecby said:BLL,
You sound like you are in the position I was in about 20 years ago. Lifetime of being in the Hereford business with my dad and Grandad selling bulls when I was pretty young. Hereford cattle have paid a lot of bills around here over the years. After buying top end Horned hereford bulls around the country and the results we were getting, most of the same things outlined in this poll and others not mentioned, I decided that we had to do things different. My brother pretty well gave up on Herefords and bred the Angus for many generations. I decided to build a better mouse trap. I probably got a little lucky and found a bull that reduced birthweight, reduced frame, improved udders, improved fleshing ability and had tremendous mothering ability early on and used him very hard. Never realized how good he truley was until I started using some of the more highly promoted AI bulls out on my cows and purchasing some outside cows. After collecting tons of data from feed conversion, to feedlot, carcass, cow weights and putting rigorous selection pressure on my cowherd and consistantly breeding the same type, I honestly do beleive that I do have something to offer the cattle industry other than just a white face. I am more than willing to discuss your experiences, not only what hasn't worked, but what is working for you currently. Feel free to pm or email anytime. And even my brother is back to using Hereford bulls.
Brian
Brian
I can't tell you how pleasantly surprised I was to see that the breeder of your foundation bull was J Oswald. I have purchased several very good Gelbvieh's from John over the last couple of years. Seems like great cowmen are great no matter what breed they raise. BTW it's very interesting hearing John talk about his Herf years. He and Liz traveled the world for that breed.
Oh yes one more thing. I can see why you used him so hard. Maybe next year when I head up there pheasant hunting I will stop and drool over your Herfs.
Northern Rancher":30rph78t said:There can be quite a disconnect between the purebred and A'I industry and the commercial man. I worked as a rep for three A'I companies in my life-Western Breeders which got bought out by Alta Genetics which was then bought out by Genex. I lobbied all three to put a decent Horned Hereford bull in their lineup-not the Denver Champion and not a frame 8 big BW 'popular' bloodline. One that could be used on straight black heifers would of been better-a sound footed bull with a good uddered mother even more so. I finally bought that exact bull and lo and behold they leased him but proceeded not to market him-to the point of not getting semen out to people who ordered it. Long story short I'm gone from there and have started my own A'I company-we sold more semen in a week on him than the 'big' stud managed in four years. I haven't been happy with the bulls selected for quite a few years so I guess it's time to put my money where my mouth is and see if I can do a better job at putting together bulls that a commercial man can use with confidence. I always thought the companies should have a reps wish list of what their customers desire and go out and get those type of bulls-unfortunately it's more of 'This is the highest EPD son from the glossiest outfit and don't worry about if he can walk' now go B.S your customers they need to use him. I guess I got a bit jaded after twenty years of it. I agree a baldy cow if made with the right ingredients is pretty hard to beat-she might not be the best in every situation but she can function in most of them. You can usually breed one to a three legged billy goat and get a saleable calf. The market for true F1's is really growing which bodes well for the business-if you find the right Herefords and Angus to make them. Using the wrong recipe can make a cake nobody wants a slice off-just add corn puts me off my feed.