Poll for commercial cow/calf producers

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What is the main reason why you won't use a hereford bull

  • Bad eyes

    Votes: 32 56.1%
  • Bad udders and not enough milk

    Votes: 27 47.4%
  • Big birth weights

    Votes: 16 28.1%
  • Bad feet

    Votes: 4 7.0%
  • I like horned herefords, but hate dehorning and don't want to introduce horns into my herd

    Votes: 17 29.8%
  • I like the idea of poll herefords, but can't seem to find the right type

    Votes: 9 15.8%
  • Hereford sired calves just aren't cute enough

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Not enough growth

    Votes: 11 19.3%
  • Not enough bone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My daddy hates herefords

    Votes: 6 10.5%

  • Total voters
    57
I use Herefords for Mama makers, but I did vote for a couple of things I think need improving. Marbling and vaginal prolapses aren't on the list. Marbling I can find if I look hard enough, never read they were working on improving the VP's. You buy a bull out of the wrong bull, and 90 % of your heifers may prolapse. That was in the late 90's, so maybe things have improved. I also have problems with milk and teats. However, there are good ones out there if you're willing to spend some time on it. Almost guaranteed gentle, and a good component of any range cow. If pushed, udders/teats and milk I worry about most.
Don't know if this a breeder issue, but on a website ~2 years ago a major Hereford breeder in my area was bragging that he used no AI. Don't understand how any pure bred breeder would find that a selling point.
 
Prairiegrass":xlcji0s5 said:
I use Herefords for Mama makers, but I did vote for a couple of things I think need improving. Marbling and vaginal prolapses aren't on the list. Marbling I can find if I look hard enough, never read they were working on improving the VP's. You buy a bull out of the wrong bull, and 90 % of your heifers may prolapse. That was in the late 90's, so maybe things have improved. I also have problems with milk and teats. However, there are good ones out there if you're willing to spend some time on it. Almost guaranteed gentle, and a good component of any range cow. If pushed, udders/teats and milk I worry about most.
Don't know if this a breeder issue, but on a website ~2 years ago a major Hereford breeder in my area was bragging that he used no AI. Don't understand how any pure bred breeder would find that a selling point.

Do you mind naming the bulls who's offspring prolapse? If not in public you can pm me or better yet e-mail me.

I haven't had a single case of prolapse in all the years I've dealt with herefords.
 
Prairiegrass":37r0uyo2 said:
I use Herefords for Mama makers, but I did vote for a couple of things I think need improving. Marbling and vaginal prolapses aren't on the list. Marbling I can find if I look hard enough, never read they were working on improving the VP's. You buy a bull out of the wrong bull, and 90 % of your heifers may prolapse. That was in the late 90's, so maybe things have improved. I also have problems with milk and teats. However, there are good ones out there if you're willing to spend some time on it. Almost guaranteed gentle, and a good component of any range cow. If pushed, udders/teats and milk I worry about most.
Don't know if this a breeder issue, but on a website ~2 years ago a major Hereford breeder in my area was bragging that he used no AI. Don't understand how any pure bred breeder would find that a selling point.
how come ? he may have a cow family of his own thats working fine .. that would sell me quicker than one thats AI'd his herd to every ""bull of the month"" as they say and his bull's should have enough homozygosity built in to give me a good bang of heterosis
 
Good post NR :clap:

This was supposed to be in reply to Northern Ranchers post. Apparently I forgot to hit the quote button.
 
I do not think that any of those reason can not be gotten around by using the Right Hereford Bull...I do think that several of those reason is why NOT to have a herd of hereford cows, But you do have to have them to get Bulls I guess....I love Hereford Bulls, I just aint that fond of Hereford Cows....
 
I can't help you on the blood lines- if I knew at the time I've forgotten. All the problems I saw were in commercial bulls owned by either neighbors or clients of a company I worked for. It caused me to stop using Herefords 12 years ago. I have e-mailed the Hereford Association three times over the last 8 years asking them if they were making any progress on getting rid of the PV issue, or even if they recognized a problem. No one ever replied, which wasn't much of a comfort. I have recently started using them again- I do believe the breed has a lot to offer.

AL, As to Purebred Breeders, it's just my opinion, but if a seedstock producer isn't using any AI in his program, and never has, I want no part of his genetics. Even good genetics can always make some improvements somewhere. Again,just my opinion.
 
Prairiegrass":kpzf5hx9 said:
I can't help you on the blood lines- if I knew at the time I've forgotten. All the problems I saw were in commercial bulls owned by either neighbors or clients of a company I worked for. It caused me to stop using Herefords 12 years ago. I have e-mailed the Hereford Association three times over the last 8 years asking them if they were making any progress on getting rid of the PV issue, or even if they recognized a problem. No one ever replied, which wasn't much of a comfort. I have recently started using them again- I do believe the breed has a lot to offer.

AL, As to Purebred Breeders, it's just my opinion, but if a seedstock producer isn't using any AI in his program, and never has, I want no part of his genetics. Even good genetics can always make some improvements somewhere. Again,just my opinion.

I have e-mailed them and got no response also. Kind of frustrating. I think the PV issue has come a long way, and most breeders are or have weeded them out. It is not as common as it once was.
 
Prairiegrass":rm3pap0f said:
I can't help you on the blood lines- if I knew at the time I've forgotten. All the problems I saw were in commercial bulls owned by either neighbors or clients of a company I worked for. It caused me to stop using Herefords 12 years ago. I have e-mailed the Hereford Association three times over the last 8 years asking them if they were making any progress on getting rid of the PV issue, or even if they recognized a problem. No one ever replied, which wasn't much of a comfort. I have recently started using them again- I do believe the breed has a lot to offer.

AL, As to Purebred Breeders, it's just my opinion, but if a seedstock producer isn't using any AI in his program, and never has, I want no part of his genetics. Even good genetics can always make some improvements somewhere. Again,just my opinion.

Vindicator and some of his ancestry (Victor/Domino) were known to be bad for vaginal prolapses. I know of a few others that are questionable as well. They were relatively hot genetic wise in the 80's and early 90's. It's completely a breeder issue and has to be knocked out at that level. It would be advantageous for the AHA to have it's members report which animals do have VP's so it can be controlled and predicted with some accuracy. :cowboy:

I should add that A.I. isn't a guarantee of quality. There are many bulls that should never have been collected and some walking bulls that could have offered a lot to the industry. A lot of the genetic abnormalities in the breed have been spread by the A.I. sires.
 
I gues after 3 pages of this thread I have a question for Knersie.

Where is this going. What is the purpose of gathering this info.

I assume you had a reason for starting it and am very curious about the next step.
 
Beleive it or not there is some of us hereford breeders thay do focus on a lot of essential things. As i wrote on here many months ago that Ive been in the hereford biz all my life and have seen everything that has come along and been done or undone or could be tried in a breed.I would be proud to show anyone over 300 hereford cows and heifers that all have good bags ,excelent feet,all willing and able to calve and raise it to 205 days as efficient'ly as any cowherd in this N.E. Mont enviorment . We never had a Harris study done but have succsesfully marketed both hereford bulls and females into some great herds of angus comercial herds for many years.We have a standing order for genuine hereford angus f1 females at all times. One of our customers has asked for 200--250 bred 3 year old f1 females and whould give a dandy premium every year. Anyone with a proven black or red angus herd are leaveing a lot of $$$ on the table at this time. Not our perticaluar worry as we have a lot of customers been crossing for a long time and have 2 ranch's that have purchased heifers for 25 years or more and 1 even crossed them a few years with char bulls and liked them. Like Northern Rancher says these baldy female[at least under our range conditions] are most certanly the way to go .
 
Beef Man":2ninc4ff said:
Beleive it or not there is some of us hereford breeders thay do focus on a lot of essential things. As i wrote on here many months ago that Ive been in the hereford biz all my life and have seen everything that has come along and been done or undone or could be tried in a breed.I would be proud to show anyone over 300 hereford cows and heifers that all have good bags ,excelent feet,all willing and able to calve and raise it to 205 days as efficient'ly as any cowherd in this N.E. Mont enviorment . We never had a Harris study done but have succsesfully marketed both hereford bulls and females into some great herds of angus comercial herds for many years.We have a standing order for genuine hereford angus f1 females at all times. One of our customers has asked for 200--250 bred 3 year old f1 females and whould give a dandy premium every year. Anyone with a proven black or red angus herd are leaveing a lot of $$$ on the table at this time. Not our perticaluar worry as we have a lot of customers been crossing for a long time and have 2 ranch's that have purchased heifers for 25 years or more and 1 even crossed them a few years with char bulls and liked them. Like Northern Rancher says these baldy female[at least under our range conditions] are most certanly the way to go .

Good for you Beef Man. I have been thru your country a few times and I have to think it takes a real good to make that calving cycle year after year.

Have you aver posted any pictures. I for one would sure like to see them.

We have a standing order for genuine hereford angus f1 females at all times. One of our customers has asked for 200--250 bred 3 year old f1 females and whould give a dandy premium every year as well he should, in my mind I can't think of a more valuable commodity that a 3yr old bred baldie cow. For sure you are gonna have a pretty large investment in time and feed in that cow and should be paid for it.
 
True f1's are hard to find-I got lucky and found 150 out of Angus hfrs and a set of the right half brother Horned Hereford bulls on the weekend. Both sides of the equation have got to be good cattle-if it is they are tough to beat. Where are you located Beef Man I'm headed stateside this spring-looking for some high accuracy older bulls to add to our A'I lineup.
 
Northern Rancher":t12myzie said:
True f1's are hard to find-I got lucky and found 150 out of Angus hfrs and a set of the right half brother Horned Hereford bulls on the weekend. Both sides of the equation have got to be good cattle-if it is they are tough to beat. Where are you located Beef Man I'm headed stateside this spring-looking for some high accuracy older bulls to add to our A'I lineup.
This doesn't take rocket science to figure out,just go look at a few Hereford Bull Sales.
Topp Hereford 109 hd. $7773 avg.
Upstream 196 hd. $4220 avg.
VanNewKirk 119 hd $5293 avg.
This is not a bunch of Reg. Hereford guys getting together and playiing games. This is comm.
black cow guys buying quality bulls for their black baldie programs.
 
To those that stated just because herds use AI doesn't necessarily make them good, I wholeheartedly agree. Not only are there bulls that shouldn't be collected, there are cows that shouldn't be flushed. I also think the Hereford is making a comeback - if for nothing else than Baldy mama makers.
 
Beef Man":2w7thbmc said:
Beleive it or not there is some of us hereford breeders thay do focus on a lot of essential things. As i wrote on here many months ago that Ive been in the hereford biz all my life and have seen everything that has come along and been done or undone or could be tried in a breed.I would be proud to show anyone over 300 hereford cows and heifers that all have good bags ,excelent feet,all willing and able to calve and raise it to 205 days as efficient'ly as any cowherd in this N.E. Mont enviorment . We never had a Harris study done but have succsesfully marketed both hereford bulls and females into some great herds of angus comercial herds for many years.We have a standing order for genuine hereford angus f1 females at all times. One of our customers has asked for 200--250 bred 3 year old f1 females and whould give a dandy premium every year. Anyone with a proven black or red angus herd are leaveing a lot of $$$ on the table at this time. Not our perticaluar worry as we have a lot of customers been crossing for a long time and have 2 ranch's that have purchased heifers for 25 years or more and 1 even crossed them a few years with char bulls and liked them. Like Northern Rancher says these baldy female[at least under our range conditions] are most certanly the way to go .

I agree 100%. The baldy female is in high demand. I had a customer that sold their heifers in January and the buyer made them sign a right of first refusal on the 2011 crop of heifers. First I had heard of that.

Brian
 
smnherf":110e9xze said:
Beef Man":110e9xze said:
Beleive it or not there is some of us hereford breeders thay do focus on a lot of essential things. As i wrote on here many months ago that Ive been in the hereford biz all my life and have seen everything that has come along and been done or undone or could be tried in a breed.I would be proud to show anyone over 300 hereford cows and heifers that all have good bags ,excelent feet,all willing and able to calve and raise it to 205 days as efficient'ly as any cowherd in this N.E. Mont enviorment . We never had a Harris study done but have succsesfully marketed both hereford bulls and females into some great herds of angus comercial herds for many years.We have a standing order for genuine hereford angus f1 females at all times. One of our customers has asked for 200--250 bred 3 year old f1 females and whould give a dandy premium every year. Anyone with a proven black or red angus herd are leaveing a lot of $$$ on the table at this time. Not our perticaluar worry as we have a lot of customers been crossing for a long time and have 2 ranch's that have purchased heifers for 25 years or more and 1 even crossed them a few years with char bulls and liked them. Like Northern Rancher says these baldy female[at least under our range conditions] are most certanly the way to go .

I agree 100%. The baldy female is in high demand. I had a customer that sold their heifers in January and the buyer made them sign a right of first refusal on the 2011 crop of heifers. First I had heard of that.


Brian
And down south the Tiger is also a big reason for increased Hereford demand. It amazes me that some will pay $1500 for a sub-par heifer just because she is a Tiger down here. Take a look at the cattlerange.com site and look at the Tiger page. Sold, sold, sold
 

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