Poll for commercial cow/calf producers

[Dylan Biggs]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/IMG_3250.jpg

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A couple of HH bulls that seem fairly usable.

 

[HEREFORD ROADHOG]

Well, we do use Hereford bulls, but I voted for the 3 greatest problems we find when looking for a new bull. My biggest is simply not enough growth. As for eyes and udders I see them as a slight problem, but one that has really been addressed in the last few years. Lots of pigmented eyes out there and there is a lot of attention being paid to the udders too.

You're not getting the right genetics if you can't get enough growth. I just took a steer to butcher that weighed 1540 at 16 mos. that was not fed hard. last year took a heifer at 1320 at 13.5 mos.

 

[cowtex]

This past week we had a Reg. Angus breeder in Okla. Call to say he wanted to come and look at Hereford Bulls. He brought his trailer and check book and left with four Feb. And March yearling bulls. One at $4,500,$4,000,$3500,and $2,500. He said he is tired of the Reg. BS and is going to the F1 baldies.I know of several Hereford breeders that are turning to Angus bulls for the same reason.

 

[KNERSIE]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/IMG_3250.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/IMG_3246.jpg

A couple of HH bulls that seem fairly usable.

Not a bad type at all, not quite the length of muscle that is desired in a British breed in my opinion, but very useable.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Knersie, what conclusions have you come to based on the poll results?

 

[KNERSIE]

That the breeders has done diddly squat over the last 40 years to address the issues or perceived issues from the past. Its one thing to say the national herd needs hereford bulls now more than ever, but are we in a position to supply what is needed?

 

[randiliana]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

 

[dun]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

As many char calves as we pulled in the 70s and 80s if I used a char bull my wife would kill me

 

[VLS_GUY]

It isn't just the calving ability and birth weight of the Charolais breed that has changed. The cows the Charolais bulls are being bred to are bigger with vastly more performance potential than that in the late 1970's. In fact calving ease Charolais bulls are used on good BWF heifers with good results. The thing is to correctly match the performance potential of the bull to the cows.

 

[JHH]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

Once a person gets a bad taste in their mouth they dont often try it again. I think you are right.

 

[KNERSIE]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

True, but just look at the 2011 Hereford AI book and you'll see way too many that either don't understand what needs to be done or are so arrogant too think it unimportant. Its is these lot that keeps feeding the stigma.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

That the breeders has done diddly squat over the last 40 years to address the issues or perceived issues from the past. Its one thing to say the national herd needs hereford bulls now more than ever, but are we in a position to supply what is needed?

For those outfits that are prepared to do AI one or two bulls would do.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

It isn't just the calving ability and birth weight of the Charolais breed that has changed. The cows the Charolais bulls are being bred to are bigger with vastly more performance potential than that in the late 1970's. In fact calving ease Charolais bulls are used on good BWF heifers with good results. The thing is to correctly match the performance potential of the bull to the cows.

True. :cboy: :cboy:

Charolais are in danger of being in short supply in Alberta also.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Still building numbers and running a brings bull. I'll be building super baldies in about two years. That was not an option.

I hate horns.

 

[Aaron]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

True, but just look at the 2011 Hereford AI book and you'll see way too many that either don't understand what needs to be done or are so arrogant too think it unimportant. Its is these lot that keeps feeding the stigma.

You honestly think things have changed in the last 30 years? Very few A.I. Hereford bulls fulfill the needs of the commercial cattlemen, and are only promoted based on their show string 'bling'. Not even 15 years ago, the north american herd was promoting polled bulls with BW epd's of 13+ and milk EPD's of -7.

If you think you going to sell junk like that to commercial cattlemen year after year, you are a fool. But, in North America, if you want some consistency and balance in your traits, you just use Horned Hereford. I know when I was buying Polled bulls or A.I.-ing with them, I wondered each and every time what the new bull would contribute to the herd. Every Polled bull was a 'trait leader' or bred some magical single improvement in all of it's progeny. Very few were balanced in their performance and maternal traits.

The older crowd might understand when I say Polled Herefords are GMC to Horned Herefords Chevrolet.

 

[KNERSIE]

Yeah, but I bet, if you did the same poll for Charolais, you'd find the results say that people won't use them because they are scared of high BW. Even though the Char breeders have done a ton to address that.

We use Hereford, there are a lot of breeders who have improved the eye and the udder issues. But the stigma of it is still there....

True, but just look at the 2011 Hereford AI book and you'll see way too many that either don't understand what needs to be done or are so arrogant too think it unimportant. Its is these lot that keeps feeding the stigma.

You honestly think things have changed in the last 30 years? Very few A.I. Hereford bulls fulfill the needs of the commercial cattlemen, and are only promoted based on their show string 'bling'. Not even 15 years ago, the north american herd was promoting polled bulls with BW epd's of 13+ and milk EPD's of -7.

If you think you going to sell junk like that to commercial cattlemen year after year, you are a fool. But, in North America, if you want some consistency and balance in your traits, you just use Horned Hereford. I know when I was buying Polled bulls or A.I.-ing with them, I wondered each and every time what the new bull would contribute to the herd. Every Polled bull was a 'trait leader' or bred some magical single improvement in all of it's progeny. Very few were balanced in their performance and maternal traits.

The older crowd might understand when I say Polled Herefords are GMC to Horned Herefords Chevrolet.

That argument is another reason why the breed kept losing marketshare. The two sides must realise they are one breed association now and start pulling together.

Looking at the said AI book, I have to agree that I could find many more horned bulls of the type I like than polls, I just don't agree that being horned automatically makes a bull superior as many try and advocate.

Regarding your comment on the commercial buyer, that is exactly my point, for a breed to thrive the commercial buyers must be buying hereford bulls AND have hereford bulls in their long term plan, selling high dollar bulls to other breeders may be lucrative, but that isn't where the breed's future lies.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Aaron help is on it's way!!

 

[I luv herfrds]

Knersie like you say if certain problems by the "top" breeders are not addressed and corrected the Hereford breed will continue to lose in the sale's. :nod:
As a commercial breeder it makes no sense to us to pay thousands of dollars for a bull or heifer and bring in the same problems we are already trying to get rid of.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron help is on it's way!!

I know NR, I know. The only possible way I would get back into A.I., although very remote, would be to able to select from real cattlemen's bulls who have proven themselves in the pasture and not in the show circuit. The CHA is helping in that sense by helping to market real bulls in their now annual semen catalog. It's refreshing to see a catalog in which at least some of the bulls are shown in their working clothes amongst the cows and not in front of some frilly curtain and banners. Not surprisingly, the only bulls pictured in their working clothes, are the Horned bulls.

What you and Dylan are doing will be of greater benefit to all breeds than all of the other semen outfits combined. :cowboy:

 

[Herefords.US]

That the breeders has done diddly squat over the last 40 years to address the issues or perceived issues from the past. Its one thing to say the national herd needs hereford bulls now more than ever, but are we in a position to supply what is needed?

Knersie, I'm going to disagree with you here! Unlike you, I can actually remember 40 years ago - and I don't have to look at 40 year old magazines and pictures to know what the Hereford cattle were like back then. Generally, there has been a lot of improvement in both eyes and udders since 1971. Certainly there has been a great improvement in growth - although I now question whether some of the Herefords may have taken growth TOO far. Personally, I'd like to see some of the easy fleshing ability bred back into Herefords - and I think that was lost in the pursuit of higher growth EPDs and reduced BF EPDs.

If you want to say NOT ENOUGH has been done - or that not enough has been done to disspell those old stigmas and to promote the improvement - then you might have a valid argument. But to say breeders have done "diddly squat" for 40 years is an overstatement!

George