pharo cattle

[cross_7]

a set of 1st calf heifers are for sale and they are touted as grass base genetics that don't just survive under harsh conditions, but thrive.
they claim these have been bred for a moderate framed good doing cows that produce growthy calves.
sounds like gimmick but i can see the potential of such an animal with years of breeding and selection.
i've read up on pcc some but does anyone have any personal experience ?

 

[3waycross]

a set of 1st calf heifers are for sale and they are touted as grass base genetics that don't just survive under harsh conditions, but thrive.
they claim these have been bred for a moderate framed good doing cows that produce growthy calves.
sounds like gimmick but i can see the potential of such an animal with years of breeding and selection.
i've read up on pcc some but does anyone have any personal experience ?

Yep and they are all
FS 3's

 

[Jake]

And it depends on your definition of growthy.

 

[cross_7]

And it depends on your definition of growthy.

1000-1200# cow
wean 650# calf
little or no supplement for either

i've had some squatty little cows that would stay in good condition during lean times but they had squatty little calves that didn't have enough frame for growth and took a beating at the sale.
i sure don't want anymore of those.

 

[Jake]

Speaking from experience from seeing quite a few there aren't very many that are going to be what you stated at first. Maybe 475 to 525.

 

[ABrauny]

So does Kit have cattle that are any good or doesn't he?

 

[Jake]

Kit has some good cattle but they are far from the end all be all that they are advertised. But then again what advertisment doesn't promote that way

 

[ABrauny]

I like a lot of what he has to say, but he seems way too sectarian and it seems he wouldn't give breeders outside of his system their due credit. Just my :2cents:

 

[3waycross]

I like a lot of what he has to say, but he seems way too sectarian and it seems he wouldn't give breeders outside of his system their due credit. Just my :2cents:

Good observation!

 

[cross_7]

they remind me of the angus cattle my grandad had in the 60-70's
smalled framed calves don't sell too good so i'm not so sure about them cows
the guy thats selling them wants someone to take them all, i only want 10 or 12 so i don't think it's going to work out anyway.
i like the theory but can they produce a calf that buyers want
i'd think you sure would have to be careful with the bulls you use.
i wonder at what weight the calves in the feedyard finish at
guess i could talk to kit instead posting here
someone said he's a member on here

 

[Massey135]

These are exactly the type, notice I didn't say breed, that you need in West Texas- or anywhere where there is a limited intake. You put a late maturing framey type char bull on those cows and watch the calves take off. I would not use this type bull unless the goal is to retain females. They will not push the scales but the females will milk good, and if bred correctly, will wean a stout calf. The best part is they will always breed back.

I like pharo's philosophy too. "IF you're not ending up with a 20% open rate, you're under-utilizing your grass.

 

[Jake]

I like pharo's philosophy too. "IF you're not ending up with a 20% open rate, you're under-utilizing your grass.

I don't believe a 20% open rate would ever be acceptable. With the cost of production even if they are a reduced cost they turnover would eat you alive. Not to mention if I ran enough cows to have that kind of open rate I would consider it incredibly poor stewardship of the land. The quality of the grass would decrease incredibly over the years.

 

[Massey135]

You mean with the cost of YOUR production.

I don't know that they still have a 20% open rate but in an attempt to retain only the hardiest, most fertile, females, they uitilized this philosphy for decades to ensure they only retained the best. Survival of the fittest to the T. Now you may not have the luxury of running that many cows and enough carry cash to cover the losses over the years, but I guarantee if you did, you would end up with exceptional individuals that excel in YOUR environment just as they have done. As far as the land, I don't know, but apparently its quality has been sustained at least to the point of being able to produce purebred cattle for the last 4 decades.

Outside of a purebred operation or if you're retaining heifers, I don't see any use for these bulls. They def won't add lbs to the average commercial calf crop but what they will do - and where their place is- is in the cowmaker market.

 

[Ned Jr.]

I wouldn't consider Pharo cattle moderate I'd call them small. I've looked at a few of there sale catalogs before and they sell some bulls that have weaning weights in the 300 pound range. The crazy thing is they sell well. I know a few people that run in a lot tougher country than Pharo's that have tried some Pharo bulls and said they just don't have enough performance. I also doubt you'd have many feeders showing up to buy your calves with Pharo bred genetics. There comes a point in time you'd be better off raising sheep, just think of the stocking rate you could get with them. I don't believe just because cattle are small framed they are more efficient and I don't think all larger frame cattle are always inefficient, if only it was that easy. I'm sure Pharo cattle work great in some environments but I think a lot of areas can handle cattle with a little more performance.

 

[3waycross]

I wouldn't consider Pharo cattle moderate I'd call them small. I've looked at a few of there sale catalogs before and they sell some bulls that have weaning weights in the 300 pound range. The crazy thing is they sell well. I know a few people that run in a lot tougher country than Pharo's that have tried some Pharo bulls and said they just don't have enough performance. I also doubt you'd have many feeders showing up to buy your calves with Pharo bred genetics. There comes a point in time you'd be better off raising sheep, just think of the stocking rate you could get with them. I don't believe just because cattle are small framed they are more efficient and I don't think all larger frame cattle are always inefficient, if only it was that easy. I'm sure Pharo cattle work great in some environments but I think a lot of areas can handle cattle with a little more performance.

It's a lot like another marketing program we are all familiar with. Someone's makin money somewhere!

 

[Ned Jr.]

It's a lot like another marketing program we are all familiar with. Someone's makin money somewhere!

BS sells!!!

 

[cross_7]

I wouldn't consider Pharo cattle moderate I'd call them small. I've looked at a few of there sale catalogs before and they sell some bulls that have weaning weights in the 300 pound range. The crazy thing is they sell well. I know a few people that run in a lot tougher country than Pharo's that have tried some Pharo bulls and said they just don't have enough performance. I also doubt you'd have many feeders showing up to buy your calves with Pharo bred genetics. There comes a point in time you'd be better off raising sheep, just think of the stocking rate you could get with them. I don't believe just because cattle are small framed they are more efficient and I don't think all larger frame cattle are always inefficient, if only it was that easy. I'm sure Pharo cattle work great in some environments but I think a lot of areas can handle cattle with a little more performance.

weaning weights in the 300 :shock:
that simply just won't work, for me anyway
moderate framed cows(1000-1200#) seem to work best around here.
heavy milkers raise good calves but suffer body condition and some are slow to breed back
good doing cows that produce good calves are hard to find and thats how i came across the the pharo genetics but i think i better keep looking.
thanks

 

[Isomade]

I wouldn't consider Pharo cattle moderate I'd call them small. I've looked at a few of there sale catalogs before and they sell some bulls that have weaning weights in the 300 pound range. The crazy thing is they sell well. I know a few people that run in a lot tougher country than Pharo's that have tried some Pharo bulls and said they just don't have enough performance. I also doubt you'd have many feeders showing up to buy your calves with Pharo bred genetics. There comes a point in time you'd be better off raising sheep, just think of the stocking rate you could get with them. I don't believe just because cattle are small framed they are more efficient and I don't think all larger frame cattle are always inefficient, if only it was that easy. I'm sure Pharo cattle work great in some environments but I think a lot of areas can handle cattle with a little more performance.

weaning weights in the 300 :shock:
that simply just won't work, for me anyway
moderate framed cows(1000-1200#) seem to work best around here.
heavy milkers raise good calves but suffer body condition and some are slow to breed back
good doing cows that produce good calves are hard to find and thats how i came across the the pharo genetics but i think i better keep looking.
thanks

I've never owned any but I like what I've seen of Ohlde cattle. I may use some of their genetics in the future.

 

[backhoeboogie]

It's a lot like another marketing program we are all familiar with. Someone's makin money somewhere!

BS sells!!!

Especially when you start out talking about something everyone believes in. It gets them emotionally invested. Then twist things around.

If those cows are so doggone good, why are they being sold? If they are the true money makers they are made out to be, hold on to them and make money.

The ran a bunch through the sale barn in Dublin 4 years back. The owner found out what those cows were really worth. It looked to be a hard lesson.

 

[plumber_greg]

Iso, I've been trying to drift towards the Oldhie type of cattle. I'm going from 1500 lb. frame 7 to 1500 lb. frame 5.5. The cattle seem to weigh the same, just different type. Something I can't find out, does a deep, wide, big ribbed 1500 lb. BSC 5, but easy to get to 6 or 7, cow eat as much as a tall, thinner, always a 5 score, cow eat? I like the direction I'm going, but I'm also worried about going too far. gs