orphan twin calves not thriving

[mindytagher]

The horse barn where my daughter rides was given twin calves whose mother died during birth. They are now 4 weeks old and one is doing much better than the other. The weaker of the two must be picked up to help stand up in the mornings and doesn't want to walk without a push from behind.They are each given a quart of milk substitute twice a day. They drink it all in the a.m but are uninterested in the afternoon. They will not eat grain unless force fed by hand which we do several times a day. They do eat a bit of grass when outside during the day and are given hay which they eat a small amt. of. They are both very thin, but one much more do. They have had stools checked and are okay. A skin condition has been treated. We are a horse barn and have very little knowledge about cow care. The local vets are of little or no help. How much grain should we be trying to get into them a day and when might they turn the corner and self feed? Any help would be appreciated and the kids at the barn have become very attached to these calves and we really would like them to pull through. Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

The horse barn where my daughter rides was given twin calves whose mother died during birth. They are now 4 weeks old and one is doing much better than the other.

It is common to have one twin do poorly. I do not believe you are feeding enough milk replacer - if the first feed is the one that brings it on try advancing the volume. Or break the feeding into three or more per day. You will get lots of opinions - but - what works for us is at least two quarts per feed three times per day and increasing the volume as they get older.

The weaker of the two must be picked up to help stand up in the mornings and doesn't want to walk without a push from behind.They are each given a quart of milk substitute twice a day. They drink it all in the a.m but are uninterested in the afternoon. They will not eat grain unless force fed by hand which we do several times a day.

Force feeding? Forget it - they do not do well on this - use hi quality calf manna or something similar - your local feed store will know. They are not ready for this yet - you may be doing more harm than good - in fact in my opinion you are doing just that.

They do eat a bit of grass when outside during the day and are given hay which they eat a small amt. of.

They nibble, but that is instinct - they have no rumen yet - therefore get nothing out of the gras and hay.

They are both very thin, but one much more do. They have had stools checked and are okay. A skin condition has been treated. We are a horse barn and have very little knowledge about cow care.

Try a vitamin shot - Selenium shot - some eletrolytes - feed store again - additional liquids as mentioned. You probably missed the colostrum so they will not do well initially but if you are lucky they will start to do well with tender loving care.

The local vets are of little or no help. How much grain should we be trying to get into them a day and when might they turn the corner and self feed?

Forget the grain as mentioned - none required at this stage. Self feed? We bucket them from day one and provide some type of hi quality calf feed from the start - but they never really get going on it for the first 6-8 weeks. NEVER push feed into a calf's mouth - they want it they will eat it.

Any help would be appreciated and the kids at the barn have become very attached to these calves and we really would like them to pull through.

There will be more advice coming - lots of knowledge out here - hang in there.

Bez

Thanks

 

[farmer rich]

Not sure exactly how much a quart is as I work in litres but I guess its a quarter of a gallon?
Doesn't sound like their getting enougth milk for starters. Should be drinking 2 litres milk replacer twice per day which is .44 gallons. If they're struggling to drink the full amount try splitting this into four feeds instead of two until they drink better.
Force feeding corn is not a good idea, this will probably cause digestive problems. Just offer a couple of handfulls daily in a bucket left in the pen. When its been licked clean offer some more. They will find it on their own, same with the hay. When theyre eating 2.5 pounds daily they can be weaned.

 

[farmer rich]

You beat me to it Bez. You must type faster than me.

 

[Anonymous]

Not sure exactly how much a quart is as I work in litres but I guess its a quarter of a gallon?
Doesn't sound like their getting enougth milk for starters. Should be drinking 2 litres milk replacer twice per day which is .44 gallons. If they're struggling to drink the full amount try splitting this into four feeds instead of two until they drink better.
Force feeding corn is not a good idea, this will probably cause digestive problems. Just offer a couple of handfulls daily in a bucket left in the pen. When its been licked clean offer some more. They will find it on their own, same with the hay. When theyre eating 2.5 pounds daily they can be weaned.

Rich - think of a U.S. quart as being a litre - the difference isnot enough to worry about. Seems we agree on the remainder.

Bez'

 

[mindytagher]

Thanks for the advice. I will get to the feed store today. We thought we were helping by force feeding, obviously not. We're just so concerned for the weaker of the two calves. Any advice on somthing to add to the feed to make it more appealing to them? Neither one eats what we put in a ground pan for them. Thanks

 

[milkmaid]

I've found - as Bez suggested - a combo of selenium/vitamins/electrolytes works wonders. I've been going with Bo-Se (selenium + vit E), shot of Vit B (for appetite), shot of Vit A & D and then electrolytes in a bottle or tubed down them. Last calf I brought home wasn't doing so great, to say the least, gave her that combo and the next morning she was up and bawling for her milk. Hasn't stopped since, LOL.

Also as pointed out...they need more milk.

What type of grain are you offering to them? plain barley isn't very appealing to a young calf...you'll have much better success with a corn/barley mix w/molassas or a special calf starter, ie Purina Startena.

Good luck. =)

 

[dun]

The milk replacer must be a high quality milk and milk byproduct type, no soy or any of that junk, and spifically for calves.

dun

 

[mindytagher]

Thnaks for the advice. I just got back from giving them a noontime feeding of milk. Someone else actually purchasedthe milk and the feed, but I'm told it is specifically for calves so we're okay there. No more force feeding, we'll try to push the milk first and checking out the vitamin shots you mentioned. We do have electrolytes that are given to the horses so we can try some for the calves. Thanks again everyone.

 

[dun]

I'm told it is specifically for calves so we're okay there.

Just make sure it's the good stuff. The soy based junk runs about half of what the milk/milk byproducts stuff does and some people only see the price. Even though it costs have as much it isn;t a tenth as good for calves.

dun

 

[Anonymous]

Thnaks for the advice. I just got back from giving them a noontime feeding of milk. Someone else actually purchasedthe milk and the feed, but I'm told it is specifically for calves so we're okay there. No more force feeding, we'll try to push the milk first and checking out the vitamin shots you mentioned. We do have electrolytes that are given to the horses so we can try some for the calves. Thanks again everyone.

Please do as Dun suggested - read the labels - even though certain types of feed are recommended for calves, there can be huge differences in quality and the resulting calf performance.

Best to speak to a no kidding specialist at the local feed store. The type that has been in the family for years - usually the "chain stores" cannot provide this service with as much capabiity.

Regards,

Bez'

Bez'

 

[GMN]

I'd definetely get them on a good calf milk replacer, go to 3 feedings a day, give Vitamin B, a few cc's, too much will constipate, and I would feed NO grain, not until they are drinking milk regularly. Good luck!

 

[msscamp]

I would also check milk replacer and make sure it's at least 20% fat and 20% protein. I got that little tip from these boards and it has made a world of difference for my bottle baby. Also, don't just increase them from what you're feeding now to double that, they have to be increased gradually or they will scour. I usually increase mine by about 1/2 pint per feeding per day and watch them. If they handle it, then I increase another 1/2 pint the next day. If they don't I leave them where they are or back them off a little bit. You really don't need scours at this stage of the game with these little guys. Good luck with your twins!

 

[mindytagher]

The vet came yesterday and gave the calf, (we've named her Pandora), fluids, vitamin and selenium shots and started her on an antibiotic(not sure which one, I wasn't there at the time and one of the other women is giving the injections twice a day for 5 days. He wanted to tube her but said she was too weak. I believe he's coming back today. This vet is a large animal guy and seems to be more knowledgable the the other. Her temp was down to 97 so they covered her with blankets and it did rise to 102. She just won't drink enough to keep going. Hopefully all of that will perk her up enough to start drinking more on her own. The calves are getting the milk replacer(the most expensive one I am told, with the ratio of fat and protein you mentioned) three times daily and I'll go at noontime today for that feeding and hopefully she's doing better! The second twin is doing fine. Thanks again for the advice. We're still hoping for the best.

 

[Anonymous]

Do not get attached to this one - sounds like it may have "dead calf disease". Common with twins. They are almost 5 weeks along - many of us would have shot it by now.

Good luck

Bez'

 

[mindytagher]

I don't think many of us are very optimistic about this calves chances but we'll do what we can. What the heck is "dead calf disease"? She did pretty well the first couple of weeks, maybe she'll come around. Shooting her isn't an option here. Thanks

 

[ben171]

i would also keep some mineral and salt around for them to eat if they need it. alot of babys problems are mineral deficiencys, if it is ther and they need it they will instinctively crave it and eat it. ive seen calves eat dirt before because minerals weren't available for them. they cannot live without minerals. they should be getting them from the replacer but a salt block is like 4 bucks and a mineral block not much more. hope they pull through for you.

 

[msscamp]

What the heck is "dead calf disease"?

"Dead Calf Disease" is the term used for calves that just don't have the will or spirit to fight back and live. At least that is a loose definition of it.

 

[mindytagher]

Pandora is doing a bit better. The vet gave her electrolytes yesterday, she drank her milk on her own in the a.m. wouldn't at noontime so we gave it to her by bottle then and in the late afternoon. Yesterday was the first day she actually got enough milk substitute into her. She doesn't suck at all, just chews on the nipple, lmaybe because the mother died at birth, we're not sure she was able to nurse at all, probably not. We made the hole in the bottle large enough for a steady stream of milk to come out and she's swallowing .Her head was up and she could stand on her own. Her temperature is 102 now.She does have a salt block. Hopefully she has turned a corner.
Thanks for all the good advice.

 

[mindytagher]

Well, she's getting enough milk now, even though we have to give it to her by bottle. She's had vitamin and selenium shots, elelctrolytes, antibiotics and fluids twice! She's got a salt block .She's getting high quality milk supplement three feedings a day about 3 quarts totalfor the last two days. But she still won't stand for more than a few minutes and seems really unsteady in the rearend when she is up and is pretty lethargic., The vet is coming again today but it's starting to look like maybe she just doesn't have the desire to live. Don't know what else to do for her. If we did we'd do it!