Orchard Grass

[Chuckie]

I have had Orchard Grass pastures before when I had horses. I always bushogged it about 6 inches tall and it had a lot of red clover mixed in. The stand never went away and stayed nice and thick.

So, now that we have a hay field, each time it gets cut, and I think it is being scalped, (Grrrrr) we are losing part of our stand. I know there are several of you that do cut your Orchard Grass several inches high, and I would like to know if you lost part of your stand after a few years? Is this normal with Orchard Grass being cut as hay, or just being cut so short?
Chuckie

 

[fargus]

It's being cut so short that is the problem. If you left 6" of stubble you would be fine, but if you're leaving 2-3" (normal for most haybines) you're almost clipping the crown of the bunch and damaging it. If you can adjust the shoes on your haybine, or put taller ones on it will help.

 

[Chuckie]

Thank you Fargus. Dun and I have discussed Orchard grass from every angle. When dealing with a hard headed person, it just helps to have a team behind ya.'
Dun had photo's of shoes he put on his disc mower. They were dandies too. My Orchard Grass cutter just grunted at them. :help:
Chuckie

 

[fargus]

Perhaps dun could share his pictures with the group....? LOL, what kind of haybine are you using?

I should have asked what your rest period is as well? OG lasts up here for the dairy guys for about 3 years in a 3 cuts/year system. In our grazing system where it is clipped short once a year it can last forever.

 

[dun]

Perhaps dun could share his pictures with the group....? LOL, what kind of haybine are you using?

I should have asked what your rest period is as well? OG lasts up here for the dairy guys for about 3 years in a 3 cuts/year system. In our grazing system where it is clipped short once a year it can last forever.

I posted them a couple of years ago but can;t find them now. We only get one cutting a year, then when it grows back we graze it as stockpiled forage for fall/winter

 

[Chuckie]

fargus,
He is using a Kuhn disc mower, and he says he is tilting it back, but he is letting it ride level with the ground. If it were tilted back, it would leave longer stems. So...
The system that I want to use, cut in early May or late April if I could trust the weather, then cut in mid June. After June, leave it alone, and let the final rains get it back in shape to make it through August and September. Of course, I would have left 4 to 6" of stems. Two cuttings, while we have a lot of moisture in the ground, and the grass is really growing. It is mixed with Red clover and Durana clover, so it does grow fast. We could get three; one in the fall if there have been rains through August and September.

But the cycle that he is on; cut it when he gets ready, which this year was in mid June. This seems to be getting worse since this field is important to me. The seed heads were already beginning to dry out. Then the next time it was cut was the first week in August. Orchard grass should never be cut in July or August. The June cutting should have been the second cutting. Orchard Grass cannot handle the cutting in hot dry months. I just do not understand the thinking here....

When you say that "3 years in 3 cuts/year system," (I am really taking a WAG here) You get three cuttings for three years from your orchard grass normally. Then after that 3rd year, you only take two, which in that year, you can cut it short. It will not harm the grass if it is while the moisture is still up in the soil? Are you letting the grass reseed itself on what could have been the third cutting? The Orchard grass seed that we have is really good to reseed itself, but not if you come back and shave it off. Let me know what you do mean by the cycle of the 3 years.
Chuckie

 

[fargus]

The three year thing is what the dairy guys are doing on their hay acres. Cut it three times a year (late may, early july, september) and cut it short (2-3" stubble) for three consecutive years, than rip it up and plant corn. They are interseeding it with alfalfa instead of using timothy because OG has much more aggressive regrowth. We graze ours, maybe clip it once a year in August once all the seed is mature and let the cows stomp that in and it reseeds itself.

 

[Chuckie]

fargus,
OK.... I see where you come up with the 3/3. Grow and destroy. Hmmmm...... He is just in the wrong area....... I believe they could use his help!! :banana:

Please put this in your newspaper for me:

Have disc mower; will travel.

:lol2:
Chuckie

 

[fargus]

fargus,
OK.... I see where you come up with the 3/3. Grow and destroy. Hmmmm...... He is just in the wrong area....... I believe they could use his help!! :banana:

Please put this in your newspaper for me:

Have disc mower; will travel.

:lol2:
Chuckie

LOL! We have probably some of the most mixed-up mixed farming in the developed world. You can see almost any growing practice imaginable used (or at least tried) here.

 

[AngusLimoX]

One stand here is 8 years old and is going to give 3 cuts, no legume.
Doesn't matter how short I cut it, I am told even spraying may not get rid of it if I want to change crops.
Stuff is 8 feet high if you can't get to it before that.
There is a new variety out supposed to be much more palatable??

 

[wildsawmill]

Perhaps dun could share his pictures with the group....? LOL, what kind of haybine are you using?

I should have asked what your rest period is as well? OG lasts up here for the dairy guys for about 3 years in a 3 cuts/year system. In our grazing system where it is clipped short once a year it can last forever.

I posted them a couple of years ago but can;t find them now. We only get one cutting a year, then when it grows back we graze it as stockpiled forage for fall/winter

dun i see your in the ozarks with orchard grass . i realy wanted to rid the fescue & plant OG in my feld. the extension office guy & the guy at usda both said i would be wasting my time as OG wont grow & or wont last in SW MO. . im 40 miles north of springfield ,mo. i planted an acre of OG in the spring as a test & it looked good till the dry hot weather kiled it. any info or advice would be appreaced
the deer loved it while it was here

 

[dun]

Perhaps dun could share his pictures with the group....? LOL, what kind of haybine are you using?

I should have asked what your rest period is as well? OG lasts up here for the dairy guys for about 3 years in a 3 cuts/year system. In our grazing system where it is clipped short once a year it can last forever.

I posted them a couple of years ago but can;t find them now. We only get one cutting a year, then when it grows back we graze it as stockpiled forage for fall/winter

dun i see your in the ozarks with orchard grass . i realy wanted to rid the fescue & plant OG in my feld. the extension office guy & the guy at usda both said i would be wasting my time as OG wont grow & or wont last in SW MO. . im 40 miles north of springfield ,mo. i planted an acre of OG in the spring as a test & it looked good till the dry hot weather kiled it. any info or advice would be appreaced
the deer loved it while it was here

Stick with fescue with clvoer and maybe OG to dilute it. OG doesn;t persist like fescue but about the only thing that does are ants. The fescue can take the abuse of drought or floods and still give you a useable pasture when everything else has failed.
When we first reloated to this fescue area my intention was to eradicate it. Nothing stockpiles as well as fescue. After 3 years of drought it still came on whenit started raining again and the stuff took off like gangbusters.
Select cows that are more tolerant to it and you can wean as good of calves as someone that is using something else but with a lot less inputs.

 

[Chuckie]

Do all of you remember what the name of the Orchard grass variety you have planted? I remember our bags saying Hallmark, and he said that it was not that variety. I believe he thinks it is Potomac.

He went to Co-op and bought a bag of seed and it was a new variety. Of course it is really late now, but I have never heard of the name before. I do remember it saying that it was not recommended for overseeding. I wonder what the deal is about that?

Chuckie

 

[fargus]

Most of the OG grown here is common #1. I sell grass seed and I can't even remember the names of any varieties except for Baridana. Can't say I can offer too many insights on varietal differences. There is a newer one up here too, but I can't remember the name off the top of my head.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've planted Hallmark, Benchmark, and Potomac orchardgrasses in the past, but the newer 'Persist' selection is much better, from a grazing standpoint, than any of the previously-planted varieties - but even at that, OG is about the LAST thing my cows will eat. They'll usually eat the ragweed and pigweed before they touch OG.
Can't make any recommendations on good varieties for hay production - we buy in all our hay, and graze every inch of pasture for all it's worth.

Not recommended for overseeding? - maybe 'cause it's fairly expensive, and when overseeding onto an established stand of grasses, there's probably not many of those light-weight little OG seeds that'll actually make it down to contact the soil, germinate, and SURVIVE. If you paid $4/lb, and got, at best, a 10% germination/survival rate(if that high), it'd translate into having paid $40/lb; pretty doggone steep. Better to drill it into the existing stand, if it's thin.

 

[dun]

Better to drill it into the existing stand, if it's thin.

The old stand better be REAL THIN. I've drilled it into weak fescu stands and the fescue crowds it out until the cows eat the fescue. Then the OG has a chance to grow since the cows don;t care for it.

 

[Chuckie]

I had tunnel vision for what I had planned to do. I was going to mix it into other Orchard grass, and the directions meant not to overseed it into another Orchard grass. That is where I could not figure it out. They should have used more detailed instructions. Like on the cakes they throw in the urinals. Do not eat.
Looking at the hayfield now, it would work just fine.

I have never grazed cattle on Orchard grass before, and they do not like it? I know the horses didn't like it if it became long and the new growth was no longer there. But I would trim it back, and then they would graze it.
Do they graze it even when it is at a growing stage? Orchard grass has so many more nutrients than Fescue.
In our pastures, I see the bermuda the last thing that they graze.

Lucky_P, Do the cattle graze bermuda before they will eat Orchard grass?

Chuckie

 

[Lucky_P]

Chuckie,
I'd say common bermuda and OG are both at the bottom of the preferred list here - cows just don't care for either - they'll eat ragweed first - but they will eat the OG if there's nothing else - or you confine 'em to a small area so they have to eat everything in sight before they get to move to a fresh paddock - but the OG's about the last thing to go.
I will say that most of the bermuda- there's not much in my pastures - is usually pretty hyper-mature before they make their rotation back to previously-grazed paddocks, so it's not all that enticing, I guess. Maybe if I wasted some $$$ spreading fertilizer...

I don't know of any allelopathy problems with drilling OG into an existing stand of OG - but I'm not an agronomist by training or education. I know that drilling alfalfa into existing thin stands of alfalfa usually comes up short due to the allelopathic effects of the existing alfalfa.

 

[Chuckie]

I have three heifers close to calving around the barn in a very large lot, and it is full of common bermuda grass, about 5" tall. There also was a bale of orchard grass hay/red clover/Durana clover in the same lot, due to the baler not wrapping it well. The heifers completely finished the orchard grass hay before they started grazing the bermuda grass. I was trying to figure that one out! But cured hay with clovers in it are different than two green patches of bermuda and orchard grass together.

When you mention that cattle like common bermuda over orchard grass, have you heard anyone speak of how cattle react to Vaughn's bermuda against common bermuda or orchard grass? We do have a hay field that we spriged with Vaughn's bermuda therefore we have access to more sprigs if we ever need to expand in that direction. Ideally, it would be great to turn them into the orchard grass in the spring and early summer, then the bermuda, while it warms up. Then back to the OG in the fall.

Chuckie

 

[dun]

Why not just go ahead and plant fescue? You know that it will persist and mixed with clover the cows should do just fine on it.