Only 64 days left till he's weaned.

[sim.-ang.king]

Some say a larger hump is a sign of greater muscling over all, or he could of just been looking for his lost Brahma bull.

A lot of physical things an epd or pedigree can't tell you though, best to use all available assets equally...even if some sound silly.

 

[Nesikep]

well, a bull shouldn't have a cow's neck, he's gotta look like a bull

Around here, weaning late is robbing peter to pay paul.. Might be worth it if you have an exceptional calf on the cow and will sacrifice some of her condition and milking ability next year, but then again, an exceptional calf shouldn't need 280 days on the cow to be decent either

 

[True Grit Farms]

EPD'S and DNA is where it's at for the registered breeders. The look and production history is where it's at for the commercial cattleman. Old timers in the cattle business sure produced some nice cattle using common sense and a good eye.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

When you feed dna into manipulated epd's what do your get?

 

[True Grit Farms]

When you feed dna into manipulated epd's what do your get?

Will pile up or splatter? The show clubby crew has done more harm to functional cattle than the Kentucky cattlemen.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I don't think the Kentucky cattlemen have done as much harm as some folks would lead us to believe. Breeding numbers instead of cows seems to only be a problem in the registered biz.

 

[CattleMan1920]

EPD'S and DNA is where it's at for the registered breeders. The look and production history is where it's at for the commercial cattleman. Old timers in the cattle business sure produced some nice cattle using common sense and a good eye.

I assure you this bull will get the job done and will be functional.

He's going to work this fall making steers and future recips.

 

[True Grit Farms]

EPD'S and DNA is where it's at for the registered breeders. The look and production history is where it's at for the commercial cattleman. Old timers in the cattle business sure produced some nice cattle using common sense and a good eye.

I assure you this bull will get the job done and will be functional.

He's going to work this fall making steers and future recips.

Which bull? I was BSing RB. I have no doubt you're bulls will work, but I have no doubt that they won't hold up here. I had to sell the best bull I've ever owned because he came up lame. He got stuck up to his belly in the mud in Joiner creek and twice in my pastures. Had to pull him out with a snatch strap from behind. That bull was only 2275lbs, now when a bull gets close to 2k pounds he's heading for greener pastures.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

"Only" 2,275 pounds?

 

[Ebenezer]

How many decades ago was this Bonsma fella active in the business?

Probably 3 or 4 in multiple countries.

 

[CattleMan1920]

EPD'S and DNA is where it's at for the registered breeders. The look and production history is where it's at for the commercial cattleman. Old timers in the cattle business sure produced some nice cattle using common sense and a good eye.

I assure you this bull will get the job done and will be functional.

He's going to work this fall making steers and future recips.

Which bull? I was BSing RB. I have no doubt you're bulls will work, but I have no doubt that they won't hold up here. I had to sell the best bull I've ever owned because he came up lame. He got stuck up to his belly in the mud in Joiner creek and twice in my pastures. Had to pull him out with a snatch strap from behind. That bull was only 2275lbs, now when a bull gets close to 2k pounds he's heading for greener pastures.

You should see my property, it looks like something military would train on.

Plenty of mud, lots of hills, rocky ground, if they are going to fail, they have every opportunity to do it here.

 

[CattleMan1920]

How many decades ago was this Bonsma fella active in the business?

Probably 3 or 4 in multiple countries.

People once used slide rules and even abacus to work math problems. Now organizations such as Angus use some serious computing power along with DNA testing to analyze a mind boggling amount of data.

Bonsma is a dinosaur given what we have access to today.

If you want to eyeball it, to each their own.

Would you prefer a surgeon from the 1800's or a new 2019 grad from Harvard medical school?

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

Clearly, I am no match for your level of ignorance, Branded but calling Bonsma a dinosaur is truly an indicator of your lack of basics of cattle breeding. Dr. Jan Bonsma is still recognized world wide for his work with animals. His writings bring enormous dollars IF you can get your hands on them. He taught how to visually recognize a sub-fertile animal without EPD's. Did you know Bonsma could look at a cow and tell you how old she was, how many calves she'd had and if she'd lost a calf at any point in her life? He developed a breed of heat tolerant, disease resistant cattle called the Bonsmara which is the most popular breed in South Africa today.
Honors and awards bestowed on Dr. Bonsma:
Texas A&M University- Distinguished Guest Professor (1964-65) the first non-American so honoured. Part of the citation reads:
Never before has one man given so much to so many in the practice of beef improvement. Your educated but pragmatic approach to teaching your fellowman how to improve his efficiency of beef production will indeed leave its mark on the livestock industry for generations to come.
American Beef Booster of the Year Award for exceptional contribution to the American livestock industry, 1965.
American Hereford Association- Honour Award, 1965
Progressive Farmer Magazine- Special Honour Award-America, 1966. (Given by balloting of the 4.5 million readers, indicating whose writings has contributed most to better agriculture in America.)
Santa Certrudis Breeders International- Honour Award, 1966
Texas Brahman Association- Honour Award, 1966
California Livestock Symposium -Honour Plaque 1970
Nebraska Charolais Breeder's Association- Honour Award, 1972
Bonsmara Breeders Association - bronze documentary statuette of the Bonsmara foundation sire "Edelheer" sculpted by Jo Roos, 1973
Omaha Chamber of Commerce - OCC Brand of Excellence, 1973
Colombian Criollo Cattle Breeder's Society - Criollo Statuette, 1974
Colombian Zebu Society - Zebu Statuette, 1974
Livestock Association of Zebu Breeders of Mexico- Mexican Honour Diploma, 1974
Livestock Bank of Colombia - Appreciation for his admirable collaboration in the development of the Colombian Livestock
Industry", 1974

South African Society of Animal Production- Elected Honourary President, 1974
Agriservices Foundation-California -Special Honour Award, 1975
Association of Breeders of Registered Cattle of Guatemala" Special Honour Award, 1975
Brown Swiss Cattle Society of South Africa" Honourary Life Member, 1975

South African Poultry Society - Shield and Gold Medal, 1953 â€" held the world record for ten years at official egg laying competitions from 1952-53 thru 1962-63.
South African Biological Society -Senior Captain Scott Medal (their highest award), 1957
South African Academy of Science and Art - Medal of Honour for Natural Science Achievement, 1966
South African Society of Animal Production - Gold Medal (their highest award), 1968
Livestock & Meat Industry, Dairy & Poultry & Allied trades - Agriculturist of the Year Award, 1974.
Claude Harris Leon Foundation - Award of Merit for Outstanding Fundamental Research Contribution, 1982.
Named one of the Ten Outstanding Pretorians, 1982

 

[sim.-ang.king]

But he never used EPD's or sold a bull for 1.5 million, so he must not know a thing about raising cattle today?










or it could be we've become lazy idiots that need technology to give us all of the answers.

 

[True Grit Farms]

"Only" 2,275 pounds?

Yes only 2,275 pounds. Branded said his bulls go over 2,400+ pounds. He was only 4 years old, at one time we had some large front pasture cows. We're making a little something on our cattle now that we quit over feeding them.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I assure you this bull will get the job done and will be functional.

He's going to work this fall making steers and future recips.

Which bull? I was BSing RB. I have no doubt you're bulls will work, but I have no doubt that they won't hold up here. I had to sell the best bull I've ever owned because he came up lame. He got stuck up to his belly in the mud in Joiner creek and twice in my pastures. Had to pull him out with a snatch strap from behind. That bull was only 2275lbs, now when a bull gets close to 2k pounds he's heading for greener pastures.

You should see my property, it looks like something military would train on.

Plenty of mud, lots of hills, rocky ground, if they are going to fail, they have every opportunity to do it here.

You don't understand, I have places that you can't ride a horse through, but maybe that's why is called Gum Swamp.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Clearly, I am no match for your level of ignorance, Branded but calling Bonsma a dinosaur is truly an indicator of your lack of basics of cattle breeding. Dr. Jan Bonsma is still recognized world wide for his work with animals. His writings bring enormous dollars IF you can get your hands on them. He taught how to visually recognize a sub-fertile animal without EPD's. Did you know Bonsma could look at a cow and tell you how old she was, how many calves she'd had and if she'd lost a calf at any point in her life? He developed a breed of heat tolerant, disease resistant cattle called the Bonsmara which is the most popular breed in South Africa today.
Honors and awards bestowed on Dr. Bonsma:
Texas A&M University- Distinguished Guest Professor (1964-65) the first non-American so honoured. Part of the citation reads:
Never before has one man given so much to so many in the practice of beef improvement. Your educated but pragmatic approach to teaching your fellowman how to improve his efficiency of beef production will indeed leave its mark on the livestock industry for generations to come.
American Beef Booster of the Year Award for exceptional contribution to the American livestock industry, 1965.
American Hereford Association- Honour Award, 1965
Progressive Farmer Magazine- Special Honour Award-America, 1966. (Given by balloting of the 4.5 million readers, indicating whose writings has contributed most to better agriculture in America.)
Santa Certrudis Breeders International- Honour Award, 1966
Texas Brahman Association- Honour Award, 1966
California Livestock Symposium -Honour Plaque 1970
Nebraska Charolais Breeder's Association- Honour Award, 1972
Bonsmara Breeders Association - bronze documentary statuette of the Bonsmara foundation sire "Edelheer" sculpted by Jo Roos, 1973
Omaha Chamber of Commerce - OCC Brand of Excellence, 1973
Colombian Criollo Cattle Breeder's Society - Criollo Statuette, 1974
Colombian Zebu Society - Zebu Statuette, 1974
Livestock Association of Zebu Breeders of Mexico- Mexican Honour Diploma, 1974
Livestock Bank of Colombia - Appreciation for his admirable collaboration in the development of the Colombian Livestock
Industry", 1974

South African Society of Animal Production- Elected Honourary President, 1974
Agriservices Foundation-California -Special Honour Award, 1975
Association of Breeders of Registered Cattle of Guatemala" Special Honour Award, 1975
Brown Swiss Cattle Society of South Africa" Honourary Life Member, 1975

South African Poultry Society - Shield and Gold Medal, 1953 â€" held the world record for ten years at official egg laying competitions from 1952-53 thru 1962-63.
South African Biological Society -Senior Captain Scott Medal (their highest award), 1957
South African Academy of Science and Art - Medal of Honour for Natural Science Achievement, 1966
South African Society of Animal Production - Gold Medal (their highest award), 1968
Livestock & Meat Industry, Dairy & Poultry & Allied trades - Agriculturist of the Year Award, 1974.
Claude Harris Leon Foundation - Award of Merit for Outstanding Fundamental Research Contribution, 1982.
Named one of the Ten Outstanding Pretorians, 1982

You miss what I'm saying. I never dismissed his accomplishments. They are exceptional to say the least.

What I'm saying however is this. Take the Moo Monitor by Dairymaster. Ask anyone that owns one. I can spot a sick cow in a heartbeat, I know when one has gone into heat, down to the minute it happens. Can any human beat that technology? Maybe, but it would be hard. Could he have told me about a cow's rumination, resting, grazing activity, etc, with exact detail? Probably not.

As for the genome mapping. How could he even remotely compete by just looking at a cow versus Angus GS or HD50K. You are completely dismissing some serious science.

Man is fallible. Science doesn't lie.

Angus has more than 1 million blood samples, they are constantly being analyzed by computers with sophisticated algorithms, not in a zillion years could you or I be able to compute the combinations.

I'm sure he understood the animal A to Z, but he would never have been able to map the genome and use genomic enhanced EPD's to create a better animal. What once took 15 years can be done in 2 with AI and ET.

 

[Ebenezer]

Science doesn't lie.

Dr. Bonsma was a scientist. A renown scientist. He did not make errors about tectonic plates in case BR has another anti-science example to school us on and to use as fluff.

Angus has more than 1 million blood samples, they are constantly being analyzed by computers with sophisticated algorithms, not in a zillion years could you or I be able to compute the combinations.

I'm sure he understood the animal A to Z, but he would never have been able to map the genome and use genomic enhanced EPD's to create a better animal. What once took 15 years can be done in 2 with AI and ET.

If so (and we have had this technology for more than 2 years now) why is the AAA having to change indices to move breeders away from creating terminal and non-fertile cattle right now? A little Bonsma look would have culled the culprits years ago without the current rush to repair. That was easy.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If the dna is so accurate why do we still need epd's? Why not just throw away epd's and use the dna?

 

[CattleMan1920]

If the dna is so accurate why do we still need epd's? Why not just throw away epd's and use the dna?

Because the EPD's and DNA go hand in hand. DNA has made it possible for EPD's to become much more accurate. You really cannot have one without the other.

It's like saying why don't I just eat the ground coffee in the morning without adding water.

Here is a link to Zoetis HD50k. This should clear up a lot.

http://bit.ly/2YjSCCX