Only 64 days left till he's weaned.

[sim.-ang.king]

We will give our first round of shots mid April then booster and wean in May. Our calves for the most part are October a few came in late sept and a few early Nov. our calving season for heifers was 44 days and cows 56 days so not a wide gap with either group. Anything weaned is adjusted to 205 days so as long as none are less or more than 205 days is my goal.

Gizmom

Just like you should be trying to do. Adjusting weights to far from 205, is a disservice to your customers.

 

[NEFarmwife]

We will give our first round of shots mid April then booster and wean in May. Our calves for the most part are October a few came in late sept and a few early Nov. our calving season for heifers was 44 days and cows 56 days so not a wide gap with either group. Anything weaned is adjusted to 205 days so as long as none are less or more than 205 days is my goal.

Gizmom

Just like you should be trying to do. Adjusting weights to far from 205, is a disservice to your customers.

Not only that but it's easier on the cows also. They're pregnant.

Not to mention, our grass won't hold pairs forever. We shoot for the 205, with our 60 day calving window.

But I suppose if you have a small herd with a year long calving window, it's more work to wean one then it is to do more.

 

[CattleMan1920]

We will give our first round of shots mid April then booster and wean in May. Our calves for the most part are October a few came in late sept and a few early Nov. our calving season for heifers was 44 days and cows 56 days so not a wide gap with either group. Anything weaned is adjusted to 205 days so as long as none are less or more than 205 days is my goal.

Gizmom

Just like you should be trying to do. Adjusting weights to far from 205, is a disservice to your customers.

Not only that but it's easier on the cows also. They're pregnant.

Not to mention, our grass won't hold pairs forever. We shoot for the 205, with our 60 day calving window.

But I suppose if you have a small herd with a year long calving window, it's more work to wean one then it is to do more.

What is 205? It's an arbitrary number established by the cattle industry, not nature.

I could take him off in 10 minutes, it has nothing do with herd size. She's settled right now as well

If it's truly a disservice, then why did Angus Assoc. basically tell me the operation that keeps them on the momma till 280 days?

They are anything but a small herd, and I think they calve in a window.

Going out on limb when I say this, but calving in a very tight window is not THE ONLY WAY things should be done. We use a lot of sexed semen, the daughters will be kept, so why does it matter when they are born? I do avoid calving in the hot months of summer because of flies and such, but if I have a calf in December or January, and they are inside and well cared for, what does it matter.

Those two Elation daughters are already on the ground and growing because I ignored the "breeding window". When those daughters are halfway or more along to breeding age is when most people will be just getting their first calves. When they are bred to America, and have those calves, I'm again far ahead, by months, if not a full year of those that waited. First mover advantage matters. Ever heard of the "slowest camper theory"

I was talking to Bright Raven the other day and we were discussing indoor calving. At Branded, they are almost always born in the field, but with the mud, rain, and losses (other operations, not ours) that I was seeing around me, I didn't take chances and have calved every one inside, with great results, and it may become the new norm for us. I'm looking into plans for a large facility just for calving.

As time moves on, if these winters are the new norm, why not calve inside? A healthy alive calf is a lot more valuable than a dead one in the field, no matter what your protocol may be.

Like I said earlier, when speaking with a reasonably successful Kentucky seedstock producer recently, they said they had lost, I think around 7-10 calves. If you figure those calves were worth $5k a piece, that's $35k in losses. That's ridiculous!! A payment on a building would be far cheaper in my opinion, so bring them inside, and save em all, if possible.

BTW, we have most of our gals setup to calve in the fall, but if I don't get every last single one by a certain date, I don't throw my hands up in exasperation. I just breed them when they come into heat again a deal with it.

 

[CattleMan1920]

We will give our first round of shots mid April then booster and wean in May. Our calves for the most part are October a few came in late sept and a few early Nov. our calving season for heifers was 44 days and cows 56 days so not a wide gap with either group. Anything weaned is adjusted to 205 days so as long as none are less or more than 205 days is my goal.

Gizmom

Just like you should be trying to do. Adjusting weights to far from 205, is a disservice to your customers.

Not that I'm going to name them, but according to what you have said above, there are at least 3 very high end Angus operations that I know of that are doing a disservice to their customers. However, it seems like their customers don't mind one iota based on the results of their 2019 sales.

 

[Bright Raven]

Nice, good feet too. Dams udder wasn't great but functional, at least not hanging around her ankles.

Thanks,

I think International brought a lot to the table as far as the feet.

I'm constantly trying to improve udder quality, it's a work in progress.

You really need some of my cattle genes
Momma at 17


daughter with a beauty steer (regretted nutting him, kept a full brother)




I wish they all had udders like this

That is a super nice cow for 17 years!

 

[NEFarmwife]

Just like you should be trying to do. Adjusting weights to far from 205, is a disservice to your customers.

Not only that but it's easier on the cows also. They're pregnant.

Not to mention, our grass won't hold pairs forever. We shoot for the 205, with our 60 day calving window.

But I suppose if you have a small herd with a year long calving window, it's more work to wean one then it is to do more.

What is 205? It's an arbitrary number established by the cattle industry, not nature.

I could take him off in 10 minutes, it has nothing do with herd size. She's settled right now as well

If it's truly a disservice, then why did Angus Assoc. basically tell me the operation that keeps them on the momma till 280 days?

They are anything but a small herd, and I think they calve in a window.

Going out on limb when I say this, but calving in a very tight window is not THE ONLY WAY things should be done. We use a lot of sexed semen, the daughters will be kept, so why does it matter when they are born? I do avoid calving in the hot months of summer because of flies and such, but if I have a calf in December or January, and they are inside and well cared for, what does it matter.

Those two Elation daughters are already on the ground and growing because I ignored the "breeding window". When those daughters are halfway or more along to breeding age is when most people will be just getting their first calves. When they are bred to America, and have those calves, I'm again far ahead, by months, if not a full year of those that waited. First mover advantage matters. Ever heard of the "slowest camper theory"

I was talking to Bright Raven the other day and we were discussing indoor calving. At Branded, they are almost always born in the field, but with the mud, rain, and losses (other operations, not ours) that I was seeing around me, I didn't take chances and have calved every one inside, with great results, and it may become the new norm for us. I'm looking into plans for a large facility just for calving.

As time moves on, if these winters are the new norm, why not calve inside? A healthy alive calf is a lot more valuable than a dead one in the field, no matter what your protocol may be.

Like I said earlier, when speaking with a reasonably successful Kentucky seedstock producer recently, they said they had lost, I think around 7-10 calves. If you figure those calves were worth $5k a piece, that's $35k in losses. That's ridiculous!! A payment on a building would be far cheaper in my opinion, so bring them inside, and save em all, if possible.

BTW, we have most of our gals setup to calve in the fall, but if I don't get every last single one by a certain date, I don't throw my hands up in exasperation. I just breed them when they come into heat again a deal with it.

You just wrote 9 paragraphs about calving inside. What does that have to do with weaning?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Not only that but it's easier on the cows also. They're pregnant.

Not to mention, our grass won't hold pairs forever. We shoot for the 205, with our 60 day calving window.

But I suppose if you have a small herd with a year long calving window, it's more work to wean one then it is to do more.

What is 205? It's an arbitrary number established by the cattle industry, not nature.

I could take him off in 10 minutes, it has nothing do with herd size. She's settled right now as well

If it's truly a disservice, then why did Angus Assoc. basically tell me the operation that keeps them on the momma till 280 days?

They are anything but a small herd, and I think they calve in a window.

Going out on limb when I say this, but calving in a very tight window is not THE ONLY WAY things should be done. We use a lot of sexed semen, the daughters will be kept, so why does it matter when they are born? I do avoid calving in the hot months of summer because of flies and such, but if I have a calf in December or January, and they are inside and well cared for, what does it matter.

Those two Elation daughters are already on the ground and growing because I ignored the "breeding window". When those daughters are halfway or more along to breeding age is when most people will be just getting their first calves. When they are bred to America, and have those calves, I'm again far ahead, by months, if not a full year of those that waited. First mover advantage matters. Ever heard of the "slowest camper theory"

I was talking to Bright Raven the other day and we were discussing indoor calving. At Branded, they are almost always born in the field, but with the mud, rain, and losses (other operations, not ours) that I was seeing around me, I didn't take chances and have calved every one inside, with great results, and it may become the new norm for us. I'm looking into plans for a large facility just for calving.

As time moves on, if these winters are the new norm, why not calve inside? A healthy alive calf is a lot more valuable than a dead one in the field, no matter what your protocol may be.

Like I said earlier, when speaking with a reasonably successful Kentucky seedstock producer recently, they said they had lost, I think around 7-10 calves. If you figure those calves were worth $5k a piece, that's $35k in losses. That's ridiculous!! A payment on a building would be far cheaper in my opinion, so bring them inside, and save em all, if possible.

BTW, we have most of our gals setup to calve in the fall, but if I don't get every last single one by a certain date, I don't throw my hands up in exasperation. I just breed them when they come into heat again a deal with it.

You just wrote 9 paragraphs about calving inside. What does that have to do with weaning?

I'm sure he has a very good reason to not reply directly, and to go off on another tangent.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Speaking of which, does everybody have their brackets filled out?

 

[NEFarmwife]

Speaking of which, does everybody have their brackets filled out?

No.

You have any idea how many branches I picked up out of my yard today?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Speaking of which, does everybody have their brackets filled out?

I have SAV America losing in the final.


Oops wrong bracket.


:banana:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Speaking of which, does everybody have their brackets filled out?

No.

You have any idea how many branches I picked up out of my yard today?

No.

I have never even seen your place.

 

[jscunn]

Branded, The operation is SAV (Shocker). Here is a small lesson on the AAA and weaning weight.

BIF formula is actual weaning weight + (205 - age in days ) * WDA + age of dam adjustment.
example Calf weighed 764 at 226 days of age dam was 6 yrs of age.
With the BIF Formula = 764 + (205-226) * (764/226)+ 0
= 764 + -21 * 3.38 +0
= 764 - 71 +0
= 693#
Same Calf on the AAA WW formula = 716 # (The AAA formula is proprietary). I dont know all the ins and outs of the model but the AAA does not reward younger calves with the full WDA the calf has acheieved. It also does not punish the older calf the full amount of its WDA.. That is why if you are trying to maximize WW for your sale brochure you wean as late as possible, you also feed the cows during the summer so the calves can eat at the trough and you can put you dont creep feed your calves for even more adjustment.

Why would the AAA want your oldest calves to be the most "successful"? What normally calves first natural service or AI Service? On every AAA board since the beginning of AI most BOD members have bulls in AI Studs (the cocktail club so to speak).

The BIF model is more fair to the younger calves in your groups.

 

[Nesikep]

Thanks,

I think International brought a lot to the table as far as the feet.

I'm constantly trying to improve udder quality, it's a work in progress.

You really need some of my cattle genes
Momma at 17


daughter with a beauty steer (regretted nutting him, kept a full brother)




I wish they all had udders like this

Very nice! Especially the 17 year old cow. No doubt that you take care of them well.

I think people are far too trigger happy to get rid of older cows.

I'd have missed out on some of my best cows had I culled her at an arbitrary age of 10 years.. I don't believe anyone's genetics are actually increasing so fast that an above average cow falls to below average in her lifetime..

Here's the granddaughter that's peeking under the udder above.. REALLY liking her daughter this year, very deep chested for a calf. All she wants to do is eat, sleep, and get attention.




Another of granny's daughters (this was her 14th calf).. Her udder isn't quite as nice, teats are a little big and leathery compared to the others, but she sure milks.

 

[Ebenezer]

As time moves on, if these winters are the new norm, why not calve inside?

Wouldn't that be a disservice to customers to tell them that they can buy a bull that has been so pampered? Like the folks that jug ewes and lambs. If they can't pasture lamb and raise them, I don't need them.

Seems to be a back and forth of cows shooing buzzards to nurturing the calf in a building.

And I do not think that unnamed great KY producers could claim every dead calf was worth $5000.

What is 205? It's an arbitrary number established by the cattle industry, not nature.

Get a grip, son. That's part of that vast valuable data base you mention regularly from the ivory towers of the AAA. If you don't like the established # start your own association. You've got the sale's pitch worked out.

I can't make this stuff up. :help:

 

[NEFarmwife]

Speaking of which, does everybody have their brackets filled out?

No.

You have any idea how many branches I picked up out of my yard today?

No.

I have never even seen your place.

You ain't missing much. I was just throwing some randomness out there because that's how I feel about basketball. Although, when I've done a bracket for giggles, I usually fair pretty well since I don't put any thought into it. So there is my strategy.... good luck!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

No.

You have any idea how many branches I picked up out of my yard today?

No.

I have never even seen your place.

You ain't missing much. I was just throwing some randomness out there because that's how I feel about basketball. Although, when I've done a bracket for giggles, I usually fair pretty well since I don't put any thought into it. So there is my strategy.... good luck!

That's actually a pretty good strategy.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Tough bunch, lol!

I should have told y'all that the calf would stay on the momma until he was a yearling. Just joking, it would have been amusing to see the responses if I had said that.

In my neck of the woods, calves are weaned off early, probably 120 days or so. They are shot up with medicine, given stress tubs to keep them relatively healthy and the rest is history. Fingers crossed they make it!

Just because I do things one way and some of you do it differently is ok, nothing wrong with that.

I'm not doing anyone a disservice. I play by the rules of AAA. If a calf is born and weighs 105 pounds, that's what I report, if a weaning weight is lower than I had hoped for I report it as such. So what's the problem, at least I'm being straight with my clients.

As for creep feeding, I see lots of them around here, the Patriot with wheels and Prieferts. Why are people using them? I don't need creep feeders to get heavy calves. Could it be that the mommas are cared for?

Let's all agree to disagree.

 

[CreekAngus]

Nice. Have you weighed him?

Not yet.

The dam is about 1750 pounds for perspective.

Get your scale calibrated, that or you're standing on the scale, she ain't 1750

 

[CreekAngus]

I think most producers ween according to feed, lack of. In my operation I couldn't imagine going 280 days, I think the returns begin to diminish and the cow is no longer profiting the calf. I actually prefer to take them off before 205, for us that is August, which is just before the weather changes, I try to minimize the weather stress.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Nice. Have you weighed him?

Not yet.

The dam is about 1750 pounds for perspective.

Get your scale calibrated, that or you're standing on the scale, she ain't 1750

Tru Test scales, they are working fine.

She's bigger than you think, I have no reason to tell you otherwise.

It's exhausting having to take photos and video to prove people wrong. She's not under 1700. I assure you of that.

I've been told my cattle are too fat, now I'm being told they are too skinny. What gives?