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old school angus

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cross_7

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my grandad raised straight angus cattle and the cows were about 800-900 pounds ( in the 1960's-70's)
now days you hardly ever see small cows like that.
what happened ?
in your opinion are bigger cows better ?
 

LoveMoo11

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I'm sure they've been selected to be big-more meat. I don't care about the size of the animal if its a female-as long as she produces quality calves and earns her keep! I'd rather have a steer with more meat on him, but then again, it costs more to feed him if he is bigger.
 

CPL

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What happened was the 70s 80s and 90s. Go back and look at pictures from Denver, NAILE, etc. during that time frame. Things have moderated since and I think depending on your operation the 5, 6, and 7 frame scores are ideal. But if you are looking for your grandpa's cattle do a search for lowline angus.
 

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Avalon

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Good or bad, It is always quite entertaining to look at how trends (fads) have changed. I lagh when I look at some of those pics from the 80's. Reminds me of the late 60's when some of my contemporaries wore bell bottoms, and wore fringed leather vests.
 

CPL

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Makes me wonder what 50 years from now will look like. One thing that I have noticed that I can see a rapid change in is the TV broadcast. I remember watching Bush's inauguration on TV and it looked clear and crisp back then, but if you go back and look at it today it looks all fuzzy and old.
 
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cross_7

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i,ve wondered if those 800-1000# cows were actually better/more profitable.
i know there fewer cows and less grass on the same ranch now.
i'm just not sure what the calves from the smaller cows will bring at the sale barn.
 

CPL

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cross_7":1qm19tjb said:
i,ve wondered if those 800-1000# cows were actually better/more profitable.
i know there fewer cows and less grass on the same ranch now.
i'm just not sure what the calves from the smaller cows will bring at the sale barn.

The seminar I was listening to on DVAuctions from Kit Pharo had a pretty good explanation of the matter. I don't really buy into his teachings, but I could see how if it was done properly you could make a profit running smaller framed cows. Say you have 40,000 lbs of total beef. At weaning that would be about 67 - 5, 6, 7 framed steers and about 114 smaller framed steers, but when you add them all up you will be at 40,000 lbs of total product. Since lighter weight calves are always bringing more per pound its likely that some buyers would mistake the smaller framed steers for just being younger and therefore would pay more money per pound for them. So say you get $1.14 per pound for your 350 lbs small framed steers and $0.95 per pound for you 600 lbs larger framed steers. 40,000 lbs x $1.14 per pound = $45,600
and 40,000 lbs x $0.95 per pound = $38,000 so in theory you are making $7,600 more by using the smaller framed steers. Anyway that's what I got out of an hour/ hour and half online seminar.
 

kenny thomas

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In theory that looks good but in the real world any good order buyer would not give 1.14 for a short 350lb calf. They would probably be discounted heavly. More like .80 or less.
kit pharo plays into a spectality market and if you do not do that and take them to an auction you could lose your a??.
 
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cross_7

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CPL":3hztd95a said:
cross_7":3hztd95a said:
i,ve wondered if those 800-1000# cows were actually better/more profitable.
i know there fewer cows and less grass on the same ranch now.
i'm just not sure what the calves from the smaller cows will bring at the sale barn.

The seminar I was listening to on DVAuctions from Kit Pharo had a pretty good explanation of the matter. I don't really buy into his teachings, but I could see how if it was done properly you could make a profit running smaller framed cows. Say you have 40,000 lbs of total beef. At weaning that would be about 67 - 5, 6, 7 framed steers and about 114 smaller framed steers, but when you add them all up you will be at 40,000 lbs of total product. Since lighter weight calves are always bringing more per pound its likely that some buyers would mistake the smaller framed steers for just being younger and therefore would pay more money per pound for them. So say you get $1.14 per pound for your 350 lbs small framed steers and $0.95 per pound for you 600 lbs larger framed steers. 40,000 lbs x $1.14 per pound = $45,600
and 40,000 lbs x $0.95 per pound = $38,000 so in theory you are making $7,600 more by using the smaller framed steers. Anyway that's what I got out of an hour/ hour and half online seminar.

sounds misleading and dishonest.


i thinking if i could raised more calves on a smaller frame(not mini's just smaller) that would finish faster,cheaper and grade higher.
to make this work i would probably have to own the calves until sold to a packer.
what size calves/carcass are the packers wanting ?
i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what am i missing ?
 

kenny thomas

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you are correct that you would have to own them until the end to realize most of the profit. I still wonder if they would fit the packer size. i think not. if you are feeding and selling finished calves off the farm it might work.
What you are missing is the kit pharo advertisement. Best since Certified Angus Beef and it seems to work almost as good.
went to a meeting last summer and a person that works for CAB told us that only 13 percent of the calves that entered the CAB program actually qualified at the end. Some herds do much better so some must not do good at all. Something they usually don't advertize.
 

Northern Rancher

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We raise pretty moderate framed cattle and have retained ownership for 20 plus years-they make us money in the feedlot-taking your years production to town on one day by selling calves at auction is a suckers bet in my opinion. Big frame doesn't necesssarily mean heavy.
 
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cross_7

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Northern Rancher thanks for your input.
what do you mean by
Big frame doesn't necesssarily mean heavy.
is there any correlation between carcass traits and frame size
i mean does a calf have to be certain size in order to recieve a premium(prime)
what carcass/calf size are the packer wanting ?
 

Northern Rancher

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The air under their belly doesn't weigh much-and if they are tall and thick they finish too heavy if you want them to grade. The kind of cows that wean the big framed feeder calves are too expensive to feed-we get 3.5-3.75 a.d.g's and good cost of gains out of moderate blacks and baldies. Their mommas aren't very intimate with a chop pail-maternity pens etc.
 
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cross_7

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Northern Rancher":3o6emx95 said:
we get 3.5-3.75 a.d.g's and good cost of gains out of moderate blacks and baldies.
what size are the cows(mommas) (frame/weight)?
 

Northern Rancher

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When we ship culls of grass in summer they average right around 1175-1225-mind those are hogfat -I'd put our cows more at 1100-1150 in working rig. Our cattle finish routinely at 1300-1350-they could go a bit lighter but our feedyard pushes for quality grade. When I see some of the behemouth cows that come through the yards it makes you wonder.
 

brandonm_13

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Has anyone else looked at the link, and looked at all the pictures of the cattle through the years. Seems to me, we keep coming back to the moderate size animal. We go too small and fat, then too large and fat, and way back it was too large and too fat. Seems moderation is the key.
 

EAT BEEF

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Seems moderation is the key.

So simple, yet it's not that easy to market moderation in seedstock.
 

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