New Zealand Style Fence

[Bestoutwest]

My wife is convinced that this is the best thing since sliced bread. What does everyone know about it? Pros vs. cons?

Thanks

 

[Putangitangi]

I have a lot of them. ;-)

 

[Putangitangi]

My wife is convinced that this is the best thing since sliced bread. What does everyone know about it? Pros vs. cons?

Thanks

Could you be more specific? Do you mean our wide use of electric fencing, or do we do "conventional" fencing differently from you?

 

[slick4591]

What I Googled showed to be what I call a privacy fence. One about 7' tall and boarded so you can't see thru it.

 

[Putangitangi]

Not a farm fence, then?

 

[Bestoutwest]

It's 6 or 7 strands of high tensile steel that you can electrify. I don't see a lot of it, so I'm assuming it's not all that it's cracked up to be. However, my wife is excited about it so I figured I'd ask.

 

[Dave]

It is cheaper and easier to build than barb wire. Because the posts are, or should be, farther apart there is some give to it which helps if a tree falls on it. But it is electric which means you get to maintain it to keep it from shorting out. It has its place but it isn't the best thing since sliced bread in my opinion.

 

[Putangitangi]

We use them for internal fencing on our place. (The boundary fences are 7-wire post and batten with an electric wire or two to reduce over or through-fence contact.) You don't need as many wires, nor as many posts and if you're fencing a tricky area to keep cattle out of bush or streams, for instance, it's much cheaper and easier. Three wires works well for cattle and two wires will work fine for adult bovines. Because the bottom wire is up off the grass, the cattle will graze under the fence, so maintenance because of grass growing up should be minimal, even where the other side isn't grazed.

You must have good earthing back at the energizer and yes, you do have to make sure you clear anything which falls over the fence, or you lose power. I think they're great and I wouldn't be nearly as comfortable running my bulls near the heifers without the electrics.

I'll find some pictures.

 

[Putangitangi]

Most of the new fences are three-wire, since that keeps the calves and the cows where they should be. Calves sometimes push under two-wire, if there's a bit of ground deviation making the gap bigger.

Around a protected tree, four posts, two wires. We had to fell the tree, since it was going to come down, so re-erected the protective fence to allow the stump to regrow. The tree only fell on the wires, so no big damage to clear up.

On the right a four-wire, partly in the hope of stopping the sheep. (Sheep still run through if they're determined enough - even with five wires sometimes.) On the left, a two-wire up the side of the drain. Sometimes the calves get in there, especially the little ones, but I turn off the power to the bottom wire so they just wander back through again. If they go under by accident while coming along the lane, and get a shock, they'll often go silly and not come back through and end up in the drain.

I'd just let this bull's mate through into the cows and he really wanted to go too. If the fence wasn't electric, I'm not sure he'd have stayed where I wanted him. The top wire's a bit slack, probably as a result of the drought (ground drying, posts moving a bit) and the heat.

 

[regolith]

Are we talking about several different kinds of fences in this thread... certainly there are lots of types in NZ.

It's 6 or 7 strands of high tensile steel that you can electrify. I don't see a lot of it, so I'm assuming it's not all that it's cracked up to be. However, my wife is excited about it so I figured I'd ask.

The only thing better for stock control would be a well-maintained 7-wire batten fence with an off-set hot wire on the inside - there's a reason they're used for boundaries and road sides, while internal fencing is usually simpler.
The more wires, the more expense to erect and maintain. My internal fences on this farm are two wire, like putangitangi's three wire ones all the wires are electrified high tensile, posts are wide apart. Repairs and maintenance are easy, they don't hold cattle under pressure but are sufficient for rotational grazing. Allowing the cows to graze under the lower wire is a big advantage, but if the bottom wire is high enough for that it also won't hold sheep.

My ideal fence would be a five wire with the top and third wires hot and reasonably spaced wood posts... thirty feet? Permanent strainers on every wire. A long, long way from the coast (salt spray rusts out galvanised high tensile and staples faster than you would believe, and coats all the insulators thus leaking voltage onto the posts). It's still fairly easy to maintain but holds cattle much better than a two or three wire. I'd also like to imagine that someone else paid for it.
Biggest issue with any electric fence is keeping the electricity where it should be.
The five-wire is acceptable for a boundary fence if it's in good condition and electrified, but won't hold sheep.

 

[dun]

Are we talking about several different kinds of fences in this thread... certainly there are lots of types in NZ.

It's 6 or 7 strands of high tensile steel that you can electrify. I don't see a lot of it, so I'm assuming it's not all that it's cracked up to be. However, my wife is excited about it so I figured I'd ask.

The only thing better for stock control would be a well-maintained 7-wire batten fence with an off-set hot wire on the inside - there's a reason they're used for boundaries and road sides, while internal fencing is usually simpler.
The more wires, the more expense to erect and maintain. My internal fences on this farm are two wire, like putangitangi's three wire ones all the wires are electrified high tensile, posts are wide apart. Repairs and maintenance are easy, they don't hold cattle under pressure but are sufficient for rotational grazing. Allowing the cows to graze under the lower wire is a big advantage, but if the bottom wire is high enough for that it also won't hold sheep.

My ideal fence would be a five wire with the top and third wires hot and reasonably spaced wood posts... thirty feet? Permanent strainers on every wire. A long, long way from the coast (salt spray rusts out galvanised high tensile and staples faster than you would believe, and coats all the insulators thus leaking voltage onto the posts). It's still fairly easy to maintain but holds cattle much better than a two or three wire. I'd also like to imagine that someone else paid for it.
Biggest issue with any electric fence is keeping the electricity where it should be.
The five-wire is acceptable for a boundary fence if it's in good condition and electrified, but won't hold sheep.

If you're trying to contain range maggots I can see the need for the additional wires. Our interna fences are single wire 30-32 inches either 12/5 gauge high tensile or 9 conductor polywire. Keeps the cows in and after calves are a week old it keeps them in too.

 

[regolith]

One of my cows jumped out the drafting pen this morning... took the wire with her.
Immediate repair required.
Four days ago I weaned four five-month old calves. All four were at least two paddocks away from where I'd put them the next day. Following day I gathered them up, one of those calves had been through about twenty fences at that stage. She ran through one two wire one about five times and destroyed a three wire one (another immediate repair required) - I ran them in circles till they were foaming at the mouth before I could get them to run in a straight line up the track and ignore the fences.
Must be bad breeding, not the fences?

My cows have come from a farm fenced throughout with eight wire fences, excessive by any standards. It's not that surprising that the fences I have now are holding some of them about as well as they hold the rain in. 4 kV hitting them every time they hit a wire, won't go any higher than that in this area thanks to the salt spray.
Several years ago I was driving past and saw 132 walk through a five-wire roadside fence, strained up tight but not electric and there was *one* staple missing. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it, fence looked perfect after a 500kg cow had walked between two wires eight inches apart.
I have badly behaved cows.

 

[dun]

One of my cows jumped out the drafting pen this morning... took the wire with her.
Immediate repair required.
Four days ago I weaned four five-month old calves. All four were at least two paddocks away from where I'd put them the next day. Following day I gathered them up, one of those calves had been through about twenty fences at that stage. She ran through one two wire one about five times and destroyed a three wire one (another immediate repair required) - I ran them in circles till they were foaming at the mouth before I could get them to run in a straight line up the track and ignore the fences.
Must be bad breeding, not the fences?

My cows have come from a farm fenced throughout with eight wire fences, excessive by any standards. It's not that surprising that the fences I have now are holding some of them about as well as they hold the rain in. 4 kV hitting them every time they hit a wire, won't go any higher than that in this area thanks to the salt spray.
Several years ago I was driving past and saw 132 walk through a five-wire roadside fence, strained up tight but not electric and there was *one* staple missing. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it, fence looked perfect after a 500kg cow had walked between two wires eight inches apart.
I have badly behaved cows.

When we fence line wean we run a single polywire 30-32 inches between the cows and calves. In 15 years we have had one heifer calf go through the wire almost every day. She went to the feedlot with the steers.

 

[HDRider]

Putangitangi could you start a thread in the pastures section about high tensile fences? I would value it. I am going to be fencing almost 200 acres with five strands, maybe six, of 12.5 gauge high tensile on the perimeter, all said about 25 miles of wire. You sound like you don't charge all the strands. I'd just like to hear more details in every and all respects. This type fence is not so common here, or at least in my little corner of Earth. Barb wire rules. I am planning on a mix of livestock that will not stay behind BW and woven is too dang expensive.

I'd love to hear from anyone that has experiences, good or bad, with multi-strand HT. Thanks

 

[Brute 23]

Fencing depends 100% on the cattle. I've see one wire with a sucker rod work great and I've seen cattle try to go thru welded pipe. How little you can get by with all depends on how hard you are willing to cull.

 

[HDRider]

Fencing depends 100% on the cattle. I've see one wire with a sucker rod work great and I've seen cattle try to go thru welded pipe. How little you can get by with all depends on how hard you are willing to cull.

My dad had most of the place surround by 17 gauge on re-bar. Never had any real probalems. Luckily it is not close to any busy roads. I am planning for goats and cattle, just didn't want to say that where others would hear me. :cowboy:

 

[Putangitangi]

Putangitangi could you start a thread in the pastures section about high tensile fences? I would value it. I am going to be fencing almost 200 acres with five strands, maybe six, of 12.5 gauge high tensile on the perimeter, all said about 25 miles of wire. You sound like you don't charge all the strands. I'd just like to hear more details in every and all respects. This type fence is not so common here, or at least in my little corner of Earth. Barb wire rules. I am planning on a mix of livestock that will not stay behind BW and woven is too dang expensive.

I'd love to hear from anyone that has experiences, good or bad, with multi-strand HT. Thanks

My expertise is primarily as a user, not a fencer (partner does it), so I'm not really qualified to "write the book". We do charge all two, three, four or five wires on the electric-only fences with spaced posts. The others are standard post and batten permanent "conventional" fences with a couple of wires electric - in many cases we've added insulators to an existing fence and pulled a middle wire's staples out to use that one, or in other cases just added a whole new wire to the existing fence. When there's stock on both sides, the first option is better, so all of them can benefit from the experience of touching the hot wire if they try and push through or over.

You must have good earthing at the energizer end. We have at least six earth rods at a measured distance from each other in clay soils with about 70 inches of rain each year (in really dry conditions you have to work better at earthing, I understand). As long as your power is adequate, a five-wire fence will stop most animals - I'd not like to say all, since there's always the possible weirdo animal or incident. The only places I've had cattle get through our fences have been where there was a dip in the ground under a two or three-wire fence and a youngster goes for the gap. They usually get a zap to the back and won't go back through again.

I watched a R2 heifer a couple of days ago pushing over an old barbed top wire into the bush. The replacement for that fence will definitely have hot wires on top and half-way down, to stop them wrecking the new fence by browsing the tasty forest on the other side.

The down-side with electrics is that if your power is too low or goes off and your animals are "adventurous" they'll push through them pretty easily. My herd is stable and self-replacing, so by now I've eliminated the families likely to try things on when the power is off. There's one two-wire fence around a tree here which has never been electrified and still no animal has tried to go through it, so they're definitely trainable in good fence behavior!

 

[greybeard]

Putangitangi:

What chargers do you use? (I believe StaFix and Patriot are both New Zealand products and both are sold here.
What rating do you use for your longer multi strand elec fences?

 

[Putangitangi]

Gallagher - it's about 35 years old. Still puts out about 4.6kV across the farm (200-ish acres). It fell off the wall a few years ago and I put it back together with superglue and cable ties.

I don't believe I've heard of Patriot. I wouldn't buy Stafix or their other brand because of the nature of their advertising, especially when there's a good/better alternative.

 

[greybeard]

Patriot, SpeedRite, Sta-Fix, and Pel are all made by the same NZ company. Tru-Test Group.
But here's where it gets murky.
Guess who Tru-Test's biggest shareholder (owner) is?

If you said Gallagher, you get the prize.

Gallagher initially bought into Tru-Test in 2004, picking up a 14.7% stake from 15 shareholders for NZ$1.20 a share. In 2004, and again in 2005, the Commerce Commission rejected Gallagher's application to acquire 100%, saying the acquisition would substantially lessen competition in the national market for the manufacture and wholesale supply of rural and security electric fencing products. Gallagher increased its stake to 19.9% in 2010 when Tru-Test's shares were trading around the 80c mark.