backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I am mistaken. I have accepted baseball caps from feed stores through the years. My employer and vendors have given me caps too. Technically you could call those hand-outs.
New Type of Cattlemen!!
- Thread starter S.R.R.
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dj
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If I had a choice. My tax money would go to someone trying to improve what they have instead of government backing of 0 down low interest loans for the developements appearing in my area. Talk about having it handed to you.
New home and all the trappings on 3.5 to 5 acres for less than it takes to move into an apartment (first and last months rent + deposit). Took me 5 years to get out of rentals to a 12x60 trailer on my own little dirt clod.
Ahh, the times are a changing.
New home and all the trappings on 3.5 to 5 acres for less than it takes to move into an apartment (first and last months rent + deposit). Took me 5 years to get out of rentals to a 12x60 trailer on my own little dirt clod.
Ahh, the times are a changing.
Alan":1mf41507 said:
Alan
I agree, it is different, but the same they are both Gov. programs designed to help those who need help.
I know I do, I couldnt pay the taxes on my place without the Ag credit. Couldnt do it. But does it really matter if they give you your money back before or after it is sent in?
Also the whole idea that this young man is getting "your" money made me chuckle a bit. lol
You got a bill (tax bill) you sent your check and the Gov. spends it how they will.
If you ever believe that its not "their" money try not paying "your" taxes. "they" will audit you and then sue you for "their" money. lol
It really comes down to who is deserving, we all agree there are those who need help. I just dont beleive that a forum is the place to deside who has the greatest need...
MD
I'm sure you can increase the vaule of your place without a handout.
Alan,
hypothetical question...a single, 19 year old person, male or female, wants/needs to take on the responsibility of improving something that there are grants for..be it land, home, whatever. This single 19 year old person has no way to get a loan because banks and lending institutions flatly will not loan money to him/her, whatever. This 19 year old person has to make a living for him/herself, thus keeping him/her off welfare rolls, thus finding him/herself in a major delimma. Banks won't lend, there is no family money for any kind of equipment to improve with. Working 2 jobs to possibly afford any equipment at all leaves no time to use the equipment. Why not take advantage of the grant?
Another question I am posing is what are your suggestions/alternatives to taking advantage of a grant...I mean real, detailed suggestions...not ambiguous "pull yourself up by your bootstraps...blood, sweat and tears" suggestions? What steps can he/she take? I'm being sincere now...I'm not being a smarta$$. What help, in the way of knowledge, can you provide this person?
Alice
Alan,
hypothetical question...a single, 19 year old person, male or female, wants/needs to take on the responsibility of improving something that there are grants for..be it land, home, whatever. This single 19 year old person has no way to get a loan because banks and lending institutions flatly will not loan money to him/her, whatever. This 19 year old person has to make a living for him/herself, thus keeping him/her off welfare rolls, thus finding him/herself in a major delimma. Banks won't lend, there is no family money for any kind of equipment to improve with. Working 2 jobs to possibly afford any equipment at all leaves no time to use the equipment. Why not take advantage of the grant?
Another question I am posing is what are your suggestions/alternatives to taking advantage of a grant...I mean real, detailed suggestions...not ambiguous "pull yourself up by your bootstraps...blood, sweat and tears" suggestions? What steps can he/she take? I'm being sincere now...I'm not being a smarta$$. What help, in the way of knowledge, can you provide this person?
Alice
MikeJoel
Well-known member
I love this "handout" stuff. Anything anyone else gets is a handout, anything they get is just help, or just getting their own back from the system.
Alice also makes a good point. These same people are always talking about "handouts" but never have ANY ideas that actually help. This isn't a John Wayne movie guys/gals the director isn't going to step in and give the guy anything he needs as long as he has that "defy all odds" look. A lot of these "cattlemen" seem to think their in an old western movie.
Get a LIFE. Sometimes your so called "handouts" are the only way a person can get help.
(for those who dislike the Bible stop reading here)
The Bible sure doesn't speak with the attitude you guys seem to have. It talks about giving and lending without expecting it returned.
Mike
Alice also makes a good point. These same people are always talking about "handouts" but never have ANY ideas that actually help. This isn't a John Wayne movie guys/gals the director isn't going to step in and give the guy anything he needs as long as he has that "defy all odds" look. A lot of these "cattlemen" seem to think their in an old western movie.
Get a LIFE. Sometimes your so called "handouts" are the only way a person can get help.
(for those who dislike the Bible stop reading here)
The Bible sure doesn't speak with the attitude you guys seem to have. It talks about giving and lending without expecting it returned.
Mike
Alice,
First off I believe in building character by paying your dues, not looking for somone else to get you where you want to be. It's humane nature to always want more than you have.
Now to answer your question, I don't know the young mans layout so I will speak of my own experience that I started at 44 yrs old. When we bought our first 16 acres of heaven. I could see some of the fence though the 10 foot tall blackberries. The first thing I did is rented a tractor and brush hog for $200, and hoped I didn't hit anything. Then I went out and bought a 4 gallon back pack weed sprayer for $45 and worked up a real sweat, mended the fence at a minumal cost and now have viable, productive pasture.
Granted at 44 yrs old I had paid me dues for a while and my income is greater than a typical 19 yr olds, so I can probalby afford more than most 19 yr olds. That's just how I started and improved our land at a minimal cost. We have since purchased an adjacent 52 acres and are still in the process of recapturing pasture and fencing at a minimal cost. We currently have about 40 acres recaptured and fence. I would guess we did this for about $1500 over a 5 yr period.
Alan
First off I believe in building character by paying your dues, not looking for somone else to get you where you want to be. It's humane nature to always want more than you have.
Now to answer your question, I don't know the young mans layout so I will speak of my own experience that I started at 44 yrs old. When we bought our first 16 acres of heaven. I could see some of the fence though the 10 foot tall blackberries. The first thing I did is rented a tractor and brush hog for $200, and hoped I didn't hit anything. Then I went out and bought a 4 gallon back pack weed sprayer for $45 and worked up a real sweat, mended the fence at a minumal cost and now have viable, productive pasture.
Granted at 44 yrs old I had paid me dues for a while and my income is greater than a typical 19 yr olds, so I can probalby afford more than most 19 yr olds. That's just how I started and improved our land at a minimal cost. We have since purchased an adjacent 52 acres and are still in the process of recapturing pasture and fencing at a minimal cost. We currently have about 40 acres recaptured and fence. I would guess we did this for about $1500 over a 5 yr period.
Alan
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
dbc":27lcotw3 said:
I know a many a poor family in East Texas that built nice places with nothing but sweat equity. They cleaned up land with an axe an a sickle, they cut cedar fence post, they dug up material to build there infrastructure from everything buildings to old schools being torn down.
They did this with out a hand out, as a neighbor made you feel good to stop when you seen them and say hay I aint using the big Massey today if you need it.
They wanted it a lot of difference in wanting someone to pay for what you want.
randiliana
Well-known member
Great post Alice!! We have certainly "been there, done that" [/quote]
Alice":1a6x977x said:
Alice take a deep breath and give your head a shake!!! Are you really encouraging a 19yr old young person to go for the handouts before even trying to use the brain and body that God gave him? :shock:
I did post a very good suggestion/alternative to taking advantage of a grant but will put it here again since you seem to have missed it.
"Take some pride in yourself go to school get a job and then use your hard earned money on fixing up the place. Then you can walk tall with your head up and tell anyone that that should ever try to knock you to go to HE$$!!!"
MikeJoel
Well-known member
Alan":10i9ddbm said:For under $500 over a 4 yr period this pasture went from looking like this, the fir trees on the bottom is the fence line, to looking like this. Lots of hard work and a little money. No handouts.
Alan
Nice work.
No handouts though?
You NEVER got any help from anyone?
Nothing, Zippo?
Never went to the public (FREE... TAX SUPPORTED) library to get a book on something you needed to know?
Yep according to some people using the library is a handout. It is supported by tax dollars. Maybe some wouldn't like to have others being able to read using their taxes.
How about public school? That is a handout. Cost parents nothing but their taxes.
I think people should reflect on all the things they do and realize they get handouts too. Just dont like to think of it that way.
Mike
Alan,
Thank you for your courteous response. I truly understand and appreciate your thoughts. As for myself, I have never had to put that kind of sweat equity into building up a farm, but I can remember watching my father literally bust up a coleche (sp?) rock hill with an iron busting bar to put up a fence on the diary he and my grandfather bought. Money was extremely tight and Daddy had to take a job as a substitute milk truck driver. I also barely remember, but do remember, Daddy stacking hay bales around the old farmhouse to keep the cold wind out. Mother was teaching school, so he had to keep an eye on us while she was at her job. It was hard, and the hard work paid off. So, I honestly do appreciate what you've said. At that time, Mother and Daddy were in their late 30s/early 40s and had a small amount of money coming in.
You said, Granted at 44 yrs old I had paid me dues for a while and my income is greater than a typical 19 yr olds, so I can probalby afford more than most 19 yr olds. and as I'm reading this young man's story, this is the crux of it. He has been given a responsibility...he has taken the responsibility...yet at 19 he does not have income that will help him fill that responsibility. Now, this is only an assumption on my part. And, if my assumption is correct, and it very well may not be...but if it is indeed correct, I can't imagine him not trying to take advantage of a grant, in fact, I want to believe that this is the kind of situation some of these grants are set up for.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful response. I do honestly appreciate it.
Alice
Thank you for your courteous response. I truly understand and appreciate your thoughts. As for myself, I have never had to put that kind of sweat equity into building up a farm, but I can remember watching my father literally bust up a coleche (sp?) rock hill with an iron busting bar to put up a fence on the diary he and my grandfather bought. Money was extremely tight and Daddy had to take a job as a substitute milk truck driver. I also barely remember, but do remember, Daddy stacking hay bales around the old farmhouse to keep the cold wind out. Mother was teaching school, so he had to keep an eye on us while she was at her job. It was hard, and the hard work paid off. So, I honestly do appreciate what you've said. At that time, Mother and Daddy were in their late 30s/early 40s and had a small amount of money coming in.
You said, Granted at 44 yrs old I had paid me dues for a while and my income is greater than a typical 19 yr olds, so I can probalby afford more than most 19 yr olds. and as I'm reading this young man's story, this is the crux of it. He has been given a responsibility...he has taken the responsibility...yet at 19 he does not have income that will help him fill that responsibility. Now, this is only an assumption on my part. And, if my assumption is correct, and it very well may not be...but if it is indeed correct, I can't imagine him not trying to take advantage of a grant, in fact, I want to believe that this is the kind of situation some of these grants are set up for.
Again, thanks for your thoughtful response. I do honestly appreciate it.
Alice
cypressfarms
Well-known member
None of us on here are going to be able to control govt. programs set up to "handout" benefits. What I would say, however, is that if our government is going to do it, I feel much better with the benefits going to something that will be productive (a farm) as opposed to going to a foreign govt. or other "welfare" programs.
I never knew we had so many judges on this board. Whatever happened to don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in his shoes? Those same "ol timers" who are preaching about handouts should also have enough manners to not judge people.
I am a welfare and hobby farmer ;-) . I don't make a living off of cattle (I have a day job), and I've received cost share benefits from the govt. for cross fencing and other conservationary procedures.
So who is the "pure" cattleman out there?
Anyone remember about the first person without sin cast a stone? Well, this may well apply to this string as well.
I never knew we had so many judges on this board. Whatever happened to don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in his shoes? Those same "ol timers" who are preaching about handouts should also have enough manners to not judge people.
I am a welfare and hobby farmer ;-) . I don't make a living off of cattle (I have a day job), and I've received cost share benefits from the govt. for cross fencing and other conservationary procedures.
So who is the "pure" cattleman out there?
Anyone remember about the first person without sin cast a stone? Well, this may well apply to this string as well.
randiliana":1stv0noq said:
I am 100% in favor of helping thoses that can not help themselves. Also thoses that have been hit by a flood, drought, BSE, fire, ect. things that are out of peoples control and could hurt hundreds of familys. That is a whole different story and you know it!
S.R.R.":2b8euw6a said:
Yessir, I did indeed see your suggestion/alternative and I do not discount it in any way. I think it is a wonderful suggestion and one I've given to others. However, these "others" were not in the situation this young man is in. As I read this, and again I'll say I may have misinterpreted it, but as I read this, this young man was handed a responsibility to be dealt with NOW, not 4 years down the road. He needs to have information for the here and now so that he may be able to fulfill the obligation that was handed to him. I would imagine that at 19 he would rather be getting an education and enjoy being 19, but this may very well not be the case.
Alice
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Alan":5qlvn99v said:For under $500 over a 4 yr period this pasture went from looking like this, the fir trees on the bottom is the fence line, to looking like this. Lots of hard work and a little money. No handouts.
Alan
Beautiful place Alan something to proud of.
Alan":1np3449m said:For under $500 over a 4 yr period this pasture went from looking like this, the fir trees on the bottom is the fence line, to looking like this. Lots of hard work and a little money. No handouts.
Alan
Oh my, that is beautiful! You have every reason on earth to be proud of your accomplishment.
Alice
cypressfarms said:I am a welfare and hobby farmer ;-) . I don't make a living off of cattle (I have a day job), and I've received cost share benefits from the govt. for cross fencing and other conservationary procedures.
quote]
You are a true model of the new type of cattlemen I am talking about!!!
WHAT THE HE!! ARE YOU DOING TAKING TAX PAYERS MONEY TO PAY FOR YOUR DAM HOBBY????
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
S.R.R.":2oeogchm said:cypressfarms":2oeogchm said:I am a welfare and hobby farmer ;-) . I don't make a living off of cattle (I have a day job), and I've received cost share benefits from the govt. for cross fencing and other conservationary procedures.
quote]
You are a true model of the new type of cattlemen I am talking about!!!
WHAT THE HE!! ARE YOU DOING TAKING TAX PAYERS MONEY TO PAY FOR YOUR DAM HOBBY????
How do you live with yourself after admiting to that?????????
Cypress looks like old SRR has treed the coon.
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