Need some thoughts, problem with heifer and calf

[Alan]

I have a first time 2+ yr old first time heifer with a 3 1/2 month old bull calf. The heifer is bred well and a nice looking heifer, her bull calf is an AI calf out of a very good bull. When he was born I had hopes of him turning into my next clean up bull. But he is looking like an average calf and not growing as I had hoped, not small, but not a standout. The heifer I noticed looks like cr@p, not holding her weight and is the only one that still has a rough coat, all where wormed about three months ago, we have plenty of grass. While walking the herd yesterday I saw the answer, she had three calves including hers standing next to her udder. Her calf was nursing and sure enough another latched on pretty quick the third tried to get in but must not have been enough room. The heifer showed no objection at all.

The heifer is thin, but I'm hoping she breeds back, also I really want to give this bull calf a shot. Will the bull calf catch up after weaning with good hay and grain by the time he's breeding age? How soon after weaning and on feed should I be able to see if he's bull quality, how much of a chance do I give him? I wished he was getting all of his groceries.

Any chance the heifer will grow out of the shared milk program with maturity?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[3waycross]

If you have high hopes for the bull calf you might want to isolate them until he is weaned and maybe even a little additional feed for them both. It's not his fault his momma is a community milking machine.

As far as she is concerned my guess is she will probably always let other calves suck her which means she will always short her own calf! I'd ship her.BTW chances are if she is that poor it could affect her breedback and make her late if nothing else.

FWIW she SHOULD have cycled at least twice or three times by now. So I would say that if she is not bred she needs to go anyway!

 

[dun]

If you have high hopes for the bull calf you might want to isolate them until he is weaned and maybe even a little additional feed for them both. It's not his fault his momma is a community milking machine.

As far as she is concerned my guess is she will probably always let other calves suck her which means she will always short her own calf! I'd ship her.BTW chances are if she is that poor it could affect her breedback and make her late if nothing else.

FWIW she SHOULD have cycled at least twice or three times by now. So I would say that if she is not bred she needs to go anyway!

What he said!

 

[Jessica06]

If you have high hopes for the bull calf you might want to isolate them until he is weaned and maybe even a little additional feed for them both. It's not his fault his momma is a community milking machine.

As far as she is concerned my guess is she will probably always let other calves suck her which means she will always short her own calf! I'd ship her.BTW chances are if she is that poor it could affect her breedback and make her late if nothing else.

FWIW she SHOULD have cycled at least twice or three times by now. So I would say that if she is not bred she needs to go anyway!

I agree. She will probably never stop. We have a second calf heifer that does the same thing. Looks terrible, BUT she always breeds back. If you don't change anything, and wean her calf on schedule, I'd give him no more than 2 months on feed and then reevaluate him. It usually takes them about 2 weeks to a month to straighten out and start gaining like they should. If they aren't by then, well, there ya go.

 

[cow pollinater]

I have two cows that started out that way in their first lactation. Both of them have quit nursing everyone else's calves in future lactations but both cows have also sought out and raised orphans and treated them like a twin to their calf and did a pretty good job of it. I don't think I'd keep a bull out of either of them though. It's hard enough getting them bred back as first lactations without the added stress of multiple calves and I don't want to reproduce those genetics by keeping the bull.

 

[randiliana]

I don't know, around here first calvers are notorious for being community milking machines. Usually by the time the go out to pasture most of them have figured it out, but not always. I wouldn't necessarily keep him as a bull, but I think I'd give her another chance.

 

[Taurus]

I had some first calvers that were like that but on their second calf, they usually will kick other calves that is not hers. Give her a second chance.

That said, I agree with Randiliana and CP with keeping bull. No need to breeding more problems.

 

[dun]

I have a simple rule of thunb that any bull calf thst is disappointing at anytime they get cut.

 

[Alan]

I have a simple rule of thunb that any bull calf thst is disappointing at anytime they get cut.

Even without their groceries, do I really know how he would have been without the milk stealers?

 

[3waycross]

I have a simple rule of thunb that any bull calf thst is disappointing at anytime they get cut.

Even without their groceries, do I really know how he would have been without the milk stealers?

Hence my suggestion. At least you will have a notion in about 3 1/2 months

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the responses, I had thought about a bull calf with a mom who was a milk station for other calves. My biggest question that I have is there much of a chance that a shared udder is a genetic trait that may be past down? I see a learned trait, but... Just because she does it or did it will her son pass it on to off spring?

 

[dun]

The only time I saw it passed on was when we usd Gert bulls, all of their daughters were calf stealers

 

[Nite Hawk]

Personally would rather a heifer be a milk station than reject her own calf..

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the comments folks, it gave me a good direction to go in. I went out again to give her a good look, without the shock of seeing calves treating her like kids do an ice cream truck. Other than a rough coat she doesn't look that bad, but she could by weaning time Ina couple of months, she's got a lot better weight on her than I thought. I'm pulling my bull around the first and shipping him, I'll separate her and her calf at that time and give them a little extra feed for a couple of months. I should be able to decide then, she'll get another year regardless and see how she does as a mature cow.

For those that know Hereford lines, she's a M326 daughter out of one of my best cows(who I'm shipping also due to age). The bull calf is a Harland son. It's taken years for me to get this type of line, I'll do my best not to be barn blind. :?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Caustic Burno]

Alan as far as the heifer goes a nurse cow has value to me. Now I dont want a pasture full of them either.
As far as the bull calf goes if I really wanted to see what he could be I would put the cow and calf in a lot.
You are not going to loose a lot on him even supplementing the cow right now with calf prices if you decide he is not going to make the grade. I have to agree with Dun I usually know after the first look if it is a keeper.

 

[Alan]

Thanks CB, the calf looked great for the first few weeks I was really thinking he could make the grade. Then he kinda started slowing down, I see how he does witha full belly of mommas milk and plent of grass for a couple of months. Hopefully he get a little bounce in his development if not, he gets considered as a shipper or a freezer steer. Good point about the nurse cow aspect, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Dave]

The other point is that you are planning to use the bull as a clean up bull. So actually you will not be breeding him to a lot of cows as long as you are good at AI. You can always cut him but I have found it is difficult to reattach them after the dog ate them.

 

[Alan]

No comment on my AI talents :lol: . But you're right he should be only breeding a % of the herd every year. I never keep a mother/son calf and get rid of the bull when I feel his lines are getting to heavy in my herd. I have more than a few calves with M326 lines, but the heifer is his only 326 daughter I have. The rest of the lines come through 2 different lines from his sons, such as Ribeye and Red Obsidian. The bull calf is my first calf with Harland lines . Another reason I can't be barn blind.