Need Help!

[Archer913]

Hello everyone I live in Tennesse and I am thinking of starting a cattle ranch and need to do some research first. First thing is I am wondering what breed would bring the best price in the meat market? How many head would you suggest to support a family of 5? How many head can you have per acre? What is the best grazing grass? Is there any reading material that can be suggested? And anything else you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Rod]

As for what breed, I would go with black angus. It seems to be what everyone wants as far as the meat market goes and brings the most at the sale barnes. If you look in the meat departments all you see anymore is angus pride, hardees now has angus burgers, seems to be whats in now. Angus also calve easy and give good milk. You could not go wrong with angus.

 

[Rookie]

Hello everyone I live in Tennesse and I am thinking of starting a cattle ranch and need to do some research first. First thing is I am wondering what breed would bring the best price in the meat market? How many head would you suggest to support a family of 5? How many head can you have per acre? What is the best grazing grass? Is there any reading material that can be suggested? And anything else you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.

Well Archer, I agree that Black Angus is probably the beef of choice for most folks. Everybody loves those black hides and that is what will probably give you the most profit. However alot of people are buyin Holstein at the grocery and don't know the difference Here in N.E. kansas we can run about 1 head on 2.5 acres of good grass on a good wet year. That varies a great deal ,though,depending on location, grass type, climate, moisture, etc. Cows are living lawn mowers. A blend of fescue or brome and little bluestem works for alot of folks in this area. I don't know how much land you have available but you need to consider the fact that most land I've seen won't take alot of grazing and still produce any hay to speak of. Hay is pretty expensive feed to buy, and ya gotta have it. Ya really need to have some land dedicated to a hay crop first and then use it for late season grazing. A full grown cow will usually consume 20-30 lbs of hay a day, maybe more. If you are gonna have a bull or two, those jokers can really put it away.Being as I just started my own little operation not so long ago and you say you are just thinking of getting started, I just wanted to give you my perspective, We are a ways apart and the climates we live in are fairly different from each other. I don't know what Tennessee winters are like. Ours here are not all that pleasent at times. You are doing a good thing in asking questions before ya jump right in. There are alot of factors to consider before you commit to raising cattle. My advice is to just get a few cows and see how it works out . :lol:

george

 

[cattle_gal]

Hate to be the party spoiler, but there's basically 2 ways to get in to the ranching business now a days. 1) you have the land already. 2) you have money. If you don't have either expect to be in debt for the rest of your life if you plan to support 5 people. Ranches do not suport themselves much, unless there is money coming from outside sources.

Go into your local Farm Service Agency and talk with them. They have special beginner farm loan programs and will help you get started.

Figure out what your yearly expenses are now for you family. Then when you look for land and cattle capacity you can calculate family expenses, operation expenses, land payments, cattle payments, equipment payments, and put in another few thousand for just in case expenses(there is no such thing as saving for the future it seems), and building expenses if there are no buildings on there. Then take your once a year cattle payment and subtract it. The FSA has cashflow and balance sheets for you to fill out to see if this is feasible or not for you.

Go to a realtor and look at land listings. The realtor should be able to tell you how many cattle it can hold for that ranch, and if you can suport those cattle without buying feed - having a crop and graze or grazing only.

There is a thread from a month or 2 ago about the same subject.

Good Luck

 

[Archer913]

Thanks Guys for all the info both good and bad. I'll take whatever advice I can get. The "reality check" is what I need, the whole kit and kaboodle. so to speak. I would still like to hear from more of you in the business. Especially those in my area or region. Thanks again and in advance, for those of you who have not replied yet.

 

[Rookie]

Thanks Guys for all the info both good and bad. I'll take whatever advice I can get. The "reality check" is what I need, the whole kit and kaboodle. so to speak. I would still like to hear from more of you in the business. Especially those in my area or region. Thanks again and in advance, for those of you who have not replied yet.

Good luck Archer!

 

[CattleAnnie]

Archer,
Just some friendly advice, try going down to your local auction market. Chat up some of the oldtimers there, and any of your neighbours that raise cattle. You're bound to get a ton of advice (granted some of it good, some of it bad, and of course the in between) but, it will be from a local viewpoint and you should be able to weed out some that will work for you and give you an idea of what direction you wish to take.

Best wishes in your endeavour. Take care.

 

[jcissell]

Archer,

As said earlier, I would go to the Farm Service Agency near you and get as much information as possible from them. Hopefully they will be more helpful than mine. I am 22 and got my first time farmers loan this summer. I bought a tractor, hay rake, a disc cutter to harvest hay (already had a baler), 20 bred brangus cows, and a couple thousand dollar operating loan. I think I borrowed about $35,000 total. I got out of this cheap b/c I bought used equipment and my dad already had cows so now I am just a partner with him. He already had the land, fence, buildings, corral, trailer, BULL, and other things. Also if something goes wrong and my cows don't make enough money to make my payment, my dad's calves are there to help me make a payment. Without this it would be really tough for me to make it.

As far as how many cows per acre. We run about 1 cow to an acre. Oh yeh and we have 2 horses on them too. This is with no fertilization and no weed control. Without doing either of those, our pastures were maxed out. We can't put anymore cows on the grass we have. If we would have fertilized and sprayed for weeds this year the cows could not have kept up with the grass. But we do have some of the best pasture in the country. I am in Northeast Arkansas and we run our cows on the levee bordering the Mississippi River. Really good ground and bermuda grass.

I would say get black angus. I bought brangus b/c I really liked the look of these cows. They had the bigger structure of the brahma but the good looks of the angus. Not alot of ear. Get a good bull with good EPDs. Talk to as many people as you can about raising cattle. (this is a good place to start) You pick up a lot of stuff by just being around people that raise cattle, so meet as many people in your area as possible. From personal experience, I wouldn't buy your breeding stock from a salebarn.

When you figure how much each cow will cost, use a high end figure and when figuring how much you will make from their calves use a really low price that way you have more than enough to make your payments.

I would bet on your bred cows costing you about $1000 a piece. The guy I bought mine from gave them to me for $950 /hd because I was a getting into the business. The rest he sold on superior livestock for about $1125 /hd. I don't know how many head you could support a family of 5 on. I would guess it would have to be really high. I like to have nice things so I would say a atleast 300 to 500? Or more? I don't know. It takes alot of head to make money if you are paying for land, equipment, etc....

If you try to get a loan from the FSA, you will have to be denied credit by 2 banks first. So if you can get a loan somewhere else I would just go to the FSA to get all the budget and cost information.

And Last but not least, even though you make think X amount is plenty of money to run your business go ahead and ask for more just in case. If you don't have to use it then just pay it back on the end of the loan. That is one piece of advice that I was given but didn't follow. I wish I would have.

I don't know near as much as most all these people on this board, but that is my viewpoint as a beginner. If you have anymore questions just let me know and I will try to help out as much as possible.

Josh

 

[Caustic Burno]

First seek psychotherapy , this is a long hard row to hoe starting out from scratch. As some one mentioned go to your local sell barn and see what does good in your area, as well as getting with your county agent. See if you can find someone in your area to mentor you will save you a lot of money on mistakes.
Welcome to the poor house, as most do this as a way of life we purely love not the money.

 

[Archer913]

I am not considering this as a way to get rich by any means. One of my biggest reasons is my three sons. Possibly be able to hand something down to them, and teach them some valuable lessons in life and be able to spend more time with them. I grew up on a farm in northern MI (not cattle) and this is something that I want for them. Plus I would rather put 15 hours a day in on a ranch than 8 hours a day in a factory. And once again thank you all for your replies.

 

[TLCfromARK]

Had an old timer tell me years ago that IF your land, cattle & equiptment was paid for you needed at least 100 momma cows to make a living. 50 calves ( ~ 1 a week ) to sell for farm operating expenses and another 50 for family living expenses. If you're having to pay for your land / cows / equip. then you'd need many more cows.

It almost becomes a catch 22, you need more land to run your cows on, then you need more cows to pay for the land, and so it goes.

As for as breed of cattle, we've all got own own thoughts as is what's best.
I like something thats got some Brahma in it, Braford, Brangus, Simbrah, etc. The one thing I would stress is to buy the best bull that you can afford. One poor cow = 1 bad calf, a poor bull means a bad calf crop. IMHO

Good luck

;-)

 

[dun]

In your area I don;t think you really need any indicus influence, could be wrong. Check your local FSA offcie (which was already suggested and a good idea). Go to the sale barns in your area and see what sells best. Look at a lot of breeds that pretty much meet the marketing criteria. Select a breed you like, if you don't like the breed it's more of a job to do the stuff that needs to be done when the weather is really crappy. Also recommended was getting a mentor. Great idea and my favorite. Just keep in mind that there are as many ways of doing things as there are people doing it. Keep an open mind. Your local NRCS office will also be able to recommend stocking rates.
Get your infrastructure in place before you bring in the first cow. Nothing stinks worse then having to do something with an animal and not having the facilities to do it. The infrastructure includes fencing, water, working facilities, equipment, etc. You probably wouldn't need a trailer first thing, you can usually find someone to haul them for you, but a trctor capable of handling the haying handling/pasture improvment/etc. type stuff is almost a must.
Pencil whip the numbers to determine what what is most economical. In some areas you can buy better hay then you can raise and still have adequate grazing, in others, making your own hay works out best. If you figure $75 per cow as profit after her feed/medical/supplements/ etc. you can get an idea how many head you'll need to make the payments on the land, taxes, personal expenses, etc.
I guess the best advice I've seen was "Don't quit your day job". A supplemental income to tide you over the first few years and to help pay for health insurance etc. is almost a necessity.
Just opinions, and we know what they're worth

dun

 

[Hawk]

The agricultural economics department at Texas A&M University did a study a year or two ago as to how many cows a family needed in order to maintain a reasonable lifestyle. There are many variables involved, of course, and they took a middle of the road approach, so consider this an average, at best. They concluded that 500 grown cows were the minimum needed for a commercial cow-calf operation to support the average farm family in an acceptable manner. In my area of East Texas, we can run a pair on 1-1/2 acres of improved coastal bermuda pasture. When figuring your stocking rate, be sure to consider non-grazing areas such as woods, lakes, streams, roads, buildings etc, and do not include these in your acreage total.

 

[Frankie]

You've received some good advice; let me add another comment. Look for ways to add value to your calves. Here in OK our state cattlemen's group has a Beef Quality Assurance program. If a rancher enters his cattle into that program, he agrees to vaccinate the calves, wean them, and, I think, provide info on genetics. He can then sell them with other ranchers' calves in special sales sponsored by the cattlemen's group. They consistently bring more money than similar calves at the regular sale. I don't know if TN has something like that? Check into some sort of state-sponsored retained ownership program. If you're raising good cattle, you can really benefit from owning your own cattle all the way to the rail. Our state assn also has a replacement female sale every year. We've bought heifers from some customers, developed them and sold through that sale and did OK. Good heifers are selling at a premium these days. Good luck....

 

[brokenmouth]

Theres some good ideas on here but remember the best kind of cow is a paid for cow. Better to have a few that you own than to have a hundred and somebody owns you

 

[hillbilly]

This is not how I was raised but it is honestly the best advice I can give to someone starting out.

If you have to borrow for everything [land,cows,equiptment] you can't make a go of it. Even with todays cattle prices. I do have some suggestions for starting from scratch;

Buy a small home place 20 to 40 acres.
Start small, 10 to 20 good cows.
Buy the best bull you can afford.
Keep your heifers to build your herd.

Build a good relationship with your neighbors especially the older ones.
As your land requirments grow lease land, take good care of it and your reputation as a leasee will help you acquire more later when you need it.

Property taxes on our land has increased 900% since 1986 when we bought it. Not likely that will change in the future.

The thought of handing down a farm to your sons is great and if you don't
own the land it loses some of its appeal.
In the year 2004 upstarts will have to be creative to be successful.
It's better to hand down a successful business on leased land than a small
farm that can't pay for itself.

Most young farmers in our area that didn't inheret the land are operating
this way with good results.
Us old guys call them "truck farmers"
Truth is at tax time we would like to trade places with them.
JMHO

Hillbilly

 

[dun]

This is not how I was raised but it is honestly the best advice I can give to someone starting out.

If you have to borrow for everything [land,cows,equiptment] you can't make a go of it. Even with todays cattle prices. I do have some suggestions for starting from scratch;

Buy a small home place 20 to 40 acres.
Start small, 10 to 20 good cows.
Buy the best bull you can afford.
Keep your heifers to build your herd.

Build a good relationship with your neighbors especially the older ones.
As your land requirments grow lease land, take good care of it and your reputation as a leasee will help you acquire more later when you need it.

Property taxes on our land has increased 900% since 1986 when we bought it. Not likely that will change in the future.

The thought of handing down a farm to your sons is great and if you don't
own the land it loses some of its appeal.
In the year 2004 upstarts will have to be creative to be successful.
It's better to hand down a successful business on leased land than a small
farm that can't pay for itself.

Most young farmers in our area that didn't inheret the land are operating
this way with good results.
Us old guys call them "truck farmers"
Truth is at tax time we would like to trade places with them.
JMHO

Hillbilly

Wow, I'm impressed. Amazing what a hillbilly can come up with when it comes to good ideas.

dun

 

[hillbilly]

U makin fun of me again?

 

[dun]

U makin fun of me again?

Nope, not me. Wouldn't think of it.

dun

 

[Gale Seddon]

Another suggestion (apologies if it's already been mentioned) would be to look into joining your local/regional cattle association. For relatively small annual dues, you can save on minerals, gates, corral panels, etc., and they also have programs for regional cattle sales. Even though we only have 20 cows, we can take advantage of the same benefits that others around here with big commercial herds get...(and for that I am willing to watch those VA Angus people's eyes glaze over when they find out we have Dexters, LOL).