MO-Ruminants
Well-known member
Here's a radical idea:
Graze your hay land and purchase what little hay you still need.
Graze your hay land and purchase what little hay you still need.
Need Help/Advise... novice but shopping for haying equipment
- Thread starter TwoByrdsMG
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farmerjan
Well-known member
I hear you on the farmer not being willing to teach.... some just are that way. If you are getting those prices for your hay when you sell it, then you are not paying too much to have it made. And yeah, the kids mostly do love to be "help" when they get to drive the tractors. Mine learned to drive the standard shift pick up in the fields going around to get the hay. I think that maybe you ought to consider the possibility of making your own, and try to find a "new used" baler that hopefully won't give you alot of trouble..... the kids are getting to the age where they can be more and more help and they will learn about hard decent work. I cannot advise as to all the equipment. That is my son's "department". Maybe take a year or 2 and acquire the stuff, and maybe you can find some one else that you can learn from? But you do not need a huge tractor with 100 hp to run a sq baler. If you drop it on the ground then a tractor doesn't need the power to pull the baler and a wagon behind it.
A side delivery rake, roller bar rake or whatever you call it out there, will last forever, very little can go wrong, and most places want a higher capacity "wheel rake" that is v-shaped and rakes faster. A tedder will make it quicker to dry hay but not essential for the first few years. We didn't have one for at least 20 years. This year it got used once because we had decent weather to get it made in between weather fronts. Some years we use it all the time.
A side delivery rake, roller bar rake or whatever you call it out there, will last forever, very little can go wrong, and most places want a higher capacity "wheel rake" that is v-shaped and rakes faster. A tedder will make it quicker to dry hay but not essential for the first few years. We didn't have one for at least 20 years. This year it got used once because we had decent weather to get it made in between weather fronts. Some years we use it all the time.
1982vett
Well-known member
TwoByrdsMG said:
Being able to sell for $8 to $12 a bale has my attention. I think I'd be willing to pull my square baler out of the barn for that. I don't know the New Holland balers but at your age and a little mechanical aptitude, learning the ins and outs of hay equipment isn't all that hard. Biggest problems arise when your not paying attention to what is going on behind you.
Sickle mower should be cheaper than a disc mower but your ground speed will be slower also. Fire ants cause a lot of cutting problems for sickle mowers here especially if it's rained recently. But disc mowers aren't immune from that either. Just ask the guy that did my first cut last May.
What's hard about raking hay? Not much, but a little talent is helpful. Again watching what's going on behind you and seeing/learning how differently raked windrows enter the baler and how the baler handles it is helpful. Can't rush a square baler. Light windrows or heavy, 4 bales a minute is about tops and that is your speedometer. You will learn the rhythm the baler makes when it's happy. This is why I'll tell you to leave the headphones/music in the truck. Be aware of the songs the equipment sings. In time you will learn the feel of that sitting in the tractor seat as well.
Don't let the baling haters on here sell you on grazing your hay patches and buy what you need. Sounds to me like you have some experience selling hay at $270 a ton vs the $80 or so a lot say the pay. Heck, someone has to grow it for them to buy. Might as well be you.
snoopdog
Well-known member
Yeah , if your selling hay at 200% -300% profit, why are you bit@in?
1982vett
Well-known member
snoopdog said:
What's wrong with trying to earn 220% - 320% profit?
TwoByrdsMG
Well-known member
snoopdog said:
snoopdog... I was not aware I was bit@in... ;-)
After all costs.. irrigation (yes we have to pay for the right to use the irrigation canals), baling, taxes, power for the irrigation pumps, tractor fuel and fertilizer (not including wear and tear on equipment or our time) we make $2.95-3 per bale when we sell the bales at $8 per bale.
I do keep pretty close track of our hours and the associated costs which is why we are asking for advise while shopping for haying equipment.
Also, grazing the fields and then purchasing hay would be foolish. There is a shortage of hay in our area which is driving the costs for purchased hay up ($8-12 per bale for comparable hay with small bales- our feeding area is designed for small bales).
A lot of the hay fields in this area have been converted to hemp fields (different subject altogether) which was the reason we were given for the rise in our baling costs-- he has fewer fields to cut and the same equipment payments.
1982vett
Well-known member
Just wondering...do you get more than one cutting a year? If you end up doing your own would you knock it all out at one time or stagger cutting? Trying to better understand what you do.
Back in the day we square baled we would cut 8-12 acres at a time. Takes longer to get it all done but a lot of it was sold off the patch and Dad would plan around them being able to get it picked up off the patch. Simpler times back then.
He used a 530 Propane John Deere to run a 489 New Holland Haybine and 346 John Deere Square Baler. Used a 1941 John Deere B and 258 New Holland Side Delivery to rake with. Probably had less than $5000 in equipment but that was 40 years ago. Baled ~10,000 bales a year that way.
Back in the day we square baled we would cut 8-12 acres at a time. Takes longer to get it all done but a lot of it was sold off the patch and Dad would plan around them being able to get it picked up off the patch. Simpler times back then.
He used a 530 Propane John Deere to run a 489 New Holland Haybine and 346 John Deere Square Baler. Used a 1941 John Deere B and 258 New Holland Side Delivery to rake with. Probably had less than $5000 in equipment but that was 40 years ago. Baled ~10,000 bales a year that way.
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
I'm not saying don't get equipment and make your own hay. But also dont be surprised when your cost per bale is equal to or more than what your custom baler is charging.
One of my customers was complaining about me charging him 12 bucks just to bale a 4x5 net wrapped bale. Said he was going to buy a baler and do it himself, told him go ahead. His pencil must be a whole lot sharper than mine.
One of my customers was complaining about me charging him 12 bucks just to bale a 4x5 net wrapped bale. Said he was going to buy a baler and do it himself, told him go ahead. His pencil must be a whole lot sharper than mine.
snoopdog
Well-known member
I apologize, Sometimes we forget, me especially, that the written or typed word doesn't have the properties of the spoken word. I think that if he is cutting, raking and baling, on a timely manner for 3 bucks a bale, that you better keep hold of him. Now , if he doesn't show up in a timely manner, that's a different story. And I believe you could make money investing in gently used equipment and doing it yourself, getting it in at the proper time and putting YOUR product at the upper end of the price range.TwoByrdsMG said:
TwoByrdsMG
Well-known member
1982vett said:Just wondering...do you get more than one cutting a year? If you end up doing your own would you knock it all out at one time or stagger cutting? Trying to better understand what you do.
Back in the day we square baled we would cut 8-12 acres at a time. Takes longer to get it all done but a lot of it was sold off the patch and Dad would plan around them being able to get it picked up off the patch. Simpler times back then.
He used a 530 Propane John Deere to run a 489 New Holland Haybine and 346 John Deere Square Baler. Used a 1941 John Deere B and 258 New Holland Side Delivery to rake with. Probably had less than $5000 in equipment but that was 40 years ago. Baled ~10,000 bales a year that way.
We cut hay off of 47 acres. They are split into 3 fields. We mow one field at a time. Two of the fields we take 2 cuttings off and the 3rd field we put cows on once the dry land runs out of feed. It seems to work good for us doing it that way but we have been "bumped" several times when he gets a bit behind and we have pushed it a couple times on hay being too ripe.
We keep a small manageable herd (18-25 total) of cows so they have plenty of feed off one field until winter.
1982vett
Well-known member
Sounds like a right nice operation. :nod:
I bought my own equipment because we simply couldn't find reliable help here to cut in a timely manor. Best thing I did was did was buy a new disc mower (New Holland). Fighting with an old sickle moco really took the fun out of it. Disc will cut like butter stay sharp if not abused and cut without fail even with dew coming on. Can't say enough good about it! I went with a 7' because of tractor size and smaller irregular fields.
I started with a side delivery bar rake (antique International 15) that was a trailer ride away from the scrapyard. After $400 to strip down, paint, new teeth, etc. I have a nice rake that has been in use without issue for several years. However, still keep my eyes open for a New Holand 256 or 258 mentioned earlier- really nice rakes. I bought a used 8 wheel V rake this year for $1,200 and wow, what a time saver! With younger kids to rake, small fields and a small tractor a good used side delivery rake would be hard to beat. Just don't forget about a good V rake when kids leave!
A good used small square baler is on my list for next year and will probably break the bank again at about $10,000. Had to round bale most of ours past couple years due to baler issues. Whatever you buy make sure there is a local dealer to gets parts and service. Yes, balers can be had much cheaper, but I can't replace my time and I need a nice clean and tight bale to bring a premium. Mine will be a New Holland...
An accumulator and grapple would be worth considering as well. I think you have a lot of wiggle room with good prices and potential to bale your neighbors field to help with payments. Good luck!
I started with a side delivery bar rake (antique International 15) that was a trailer ride away from the scrapyard. After $400 to strip down, paint, new teeth, etc. I have a nice rake that has been in use without issue for several years. However, still keep my eyes open for a New Holand 256 or 258 mentioned earlier- really nice rakes. I bought a used 8 wheel V rake this year for $1,200 and wow, what a time saver! With younger kids to rake, small fields and a small tractor a good used side delivery rake would be hard to beat. Just don't forget about a good V rake when kids leave!
A good used small square baler is on my list for next year and will probably break the bank again at about $10,000. Had to round bale most of ours past couple years due to baler issues. Whatever you buy make sure there is a local dealer to gets parts and service. Yes, balers can be had much cheaper, but I can't replace my time and I need a nice clean and tight bale to bring a premium. Mine will be a New Holland...
An accumulator and grapple would be worth considering as well. I think you have a lot of wiggle room with good prices and potential to bale your neighbors field to help with payments. Good luck!
you tractor is right at minimum for a small square baler. you should be able to turn up the pump 10 percent if you need it.we used a mf 120 square baler for years . sold it to a neighbor, he is still using it. a john deere pull type rake . a small sickle mower or maybe a drum mower.i would buy a good mf 120 for about $2000. a good john deere or new holland or ih pull type rake for a $1000. a 7 ft new holland 451 sickle mower should cost around a thousand. i would load the rear tires with water and use your tractor. when i was young everyone square baled with small tractors.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
1982vett said:
You won't get squares done for that cheap here, that's just bales.
hurleyjd
Well-known member
Could be they have an Alfalfa meadow and that will change to the type of equipment being recommend. Alfalfa needs to be cut with a mower conditioner. If that is the case then equipment needs change.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
chevytaHOE5674 said:
longevity not to mention he may get to you when he gets to you and hay not be in its prime. I would rather spend a little more and not have to rely on someone
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
People always say that but even if you do it yourself the day is only so long, the hay is only in its "prime" for so long, weather is what it is, and equipment breaks down. Sure you maybe able to get it in its "prime" but you can just as easy get "past prime" hay when doing it yourself as opposed to hiring it out.
Case in point my neighbor was making his "prime hay" in September because his old mower broke down in June he finially got that running and made a few rounds and the tractor quit and by the time he tracked down parts and fixed it all up it rained for 3.5 weeks straight and it was September. If that was a customer of mine I would have had my backup mower out there as soon as I knew my main mower wasn't fixable that day, and I have backup tractors for my backups. So his "prime horse hay" is going to end up being fed to somebody's cows all because some bad circumstances that are hard for a small venture to overcome.
If you want to make hay to get control over quality, or because you just want to do it then go for it. But I wouldn't do it trying to save money. Making hay especially with older used up equipment can be a hassle, headache, and heartache in itself.
Case in point my neighbor was making his "prime hay" in September because his old mower broke down in June he finially got that running and made a few rounds and the tractor quit and by the time he tracked down parts and fixed it all up it rained for 3.5 weeks straight and it was September. If that was a customer of mine I would have had my backup mower out there as soon as I knew my main mower wasn't fixable that day, and I have backup tractors for my backups. So his "prime horse hay" is going to end up being fed to somebody's cows all because some bad circumstances that are hard for a small venture to overcome.
If you want to make hay to get control over quality, or because you just want to do it then go for it. But I wouldn't do it trying to save money. Making hay especially with older used up equipment can be a hassle, headache, and heartache in itself.
1982vett
Well-known member
chevytaHOE5674 said:
Not advocating buying "used up equipment". Plenty of used equipment out their that isn't used up.... only piece of equipment I have that wasn't used when I bought it was the 1465 New Holland haybine I bought in 2001.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
1982vett said:
That was a broad brush chevy most of my equipment I have was used and so is the equipment I sell. The deal is one needs to either learn about equipment before you buy it or take someone that does that you trust. Anything used is a gamble but there is plenty of good used equipment. I do a lot of excavation work and I bought the equipment I need to do what I want to do most was used. I also bought it to have when I wanted to use it. Sure I could lease it or rent when I need it but what if there was a storm and they were all rented I wouldn't be able to do anything. I feel the same way about hay equipment I would rather control some parts of my progress vs be at the mercy of others. If something goes sideways atleast it was because of me not someone else
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
The OP stated "my husband and I know very little about haying equipment". So unless they have some trusted friends who are very knowledgeable and willing to help source equipment, teach them to repair and maintain it, as well as operate it correctly they will be in for a long miserable learning experience, and like many that I talk to and read about on here dread hay season with a passion.
In the example of my neighbor he is very mechanical and has a machine shop at his disposal. But when trying to source parts for an old Hesston MoCo and an old Allis Chalmers tractor things took extra time which with our weather ment his hay got made 2 months later than normal. But he has complete control over his operation and nobody else to blame but himself. He does it because it likes doing it, not for the money.
In the example of my neighbor he is very mechanical and has a machine shop at his disposal. But when trying to source parts for an old Hesston MoCo and an old Allis Chalmers tractor things took extra time which with our weather ment his hay got made 2 months later than normal. But he has complete control over his operation and nobody else to blame but himself. He does it because it likes doing it, not for the money.
